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slavetogravity
May 2, 2005, 9:32 PM
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I’m in the proses of developing a new crag. I’ve got my eyes set on a 18 volt cordless hammer drill, but I’m confident that the given batteries aren’t going to cut the mustard when it comes to bolting a couple of sport routes in a given day. (The rock is as hard as it gets)
I recall seeing an article on how route developers where able to rig their hammer drills off car batteries which they’d carry in a backpack while drilling.
I’m no electrician but I’d like to know how this is done, what gear/equipment I’ll need, and what I’ll need to know
Many thanks. Aaron.
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curt
May 2, 2005, 9:34 PM
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Car batteries are 12v genius.
Curt
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quincy
May 2, 2005, 9:47 PM
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If a car batterie is 12V and you do buy the 18V drill. All you need to do is step up the voltage with a transformer. I'm not sure where you can get one, but if you look around on the internet you could probably rig one up yourself, it's not too hard. Just remember this formula: N2/N1=V2/V1. N is the number of turns on the transfomer from the primary to the secondary side and V is the primary and secondary voltages. How you hook it all up is a whole 'nother story. Good luck.
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treez
May 2, 2005, 9:57 PM
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You don't want a hammer drill. You want a roto-hammer. There is a big difference. The cordless roto-hammers just happen to be 24v. They usually come with two batteries. I'd guess you'd be better off buying extra batteries for the roto.
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ctardi
May 2, 2005, 10:06 PM
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If you buy a drill with a voltage that has 12 as a factor, you can hook it up to a car battery. You use series to raise the voltage, and parallell to raise the amperage. You would want to find the right balance of paralel and series for power, and portability. It's easier to show than to tell.
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curt
May 2, 2005, 10:16 PM
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In reply to: If a car batterie is 12V and you do buy the 18V drill. All you need to do is step up the voltage with a transformer. I'm not sure where you can get one, but if you look around on the internet you could probably rig one up yourself, it's not too hard. Just remember this formula: N2/N1=V2/V1. N is the number of turns on the transfomer from the primary to the secondary side and V is the primary and secondary voltages. How you hook it all up is a whole 'nother story. Good luck.
Since when do transformers apply to direct current devices? Please enlighten me.
Curt
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overlord
May 3, 2005, 4:39 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: If a car batterie is 12V and you do buy the 18V drill. All you need to do is step up the voltage with a transformer. I'm not sure where you can get one, but if you look around on the internet you could probably rig one up yourself, it's not too hard. Just remember this formula: N2/N1=V2/V1. N is the number of turns on the transfomer from the primary to the secondary side and V is the primary and secondary voltages. How you hook it all up is a whole 'nother story. Good luck. Since when do transformers apply to direct current devices? Please enlighten me. Curt
that was my first thought.
well, with a 18Vdrill youre pretty much screwed. unless you want to drag along alot of electro gear to make the DC AC, then transform the vltage and then make it DC again. not exactly my kind of thig for dragging to the crag.
you have three more options...
a) get a 24V drill so you can run off two batteries
b) get a few extra bateries for your current one
and the last, but i REALLY dont reccomend that you do this:
c) run your 18V drill with either 12V or 24V. but if you run it at 12V it wont work as well as it should and if you run it at 24V you run a SERIOUS risk of frying it.
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edge
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May 3, 2005, 5:37 AM
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Forget hooking up to your car battery. What you want to do is hook up a face mask directly to your car's exhaust via 100' of plastic tubing, then attach an impact drill to your forehead.
Once you start to feel woozy (the car must be running at this point, BTW) your head will bob at 14 BPM (bobs per minute.) It is slow, dirty work, but the climbing community will thank you for it.
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onsight_endorphines
May 3, 2005, 5:45 AM
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A freshly charged car battery runs somewhere in the range of 13.8V, an 18V drill should run reasonably well at this level.
It's not hard to rig a drill to run off of external power. Typically the battery will usually snap into the drill in some fashion...clip in, whatever. You'll have to modify the battery case itself....that means, you'll want a dead or old battery in its case. Wouldn't want to use the new battery that came with the drill.....those are nice...
1. Take the battery out of its case.
2. Connect two wires (red+, black-) to the actual battery contacts inside the battery case. Soldering is best, but, be creative you figure it out. Drill holes in the contacts and use small bolts, etc.
3. Drill a hole in the case, and poke the free wire ends through it. These will connect to external power.
Use stranded wire for flexibility. If the external power is a battery inside your backpack, 10-gauge wire should be fine. If it hooks to a car battery on the ground (my choice) use something bigger...8 gauge or so...
Quincy: Stay as far away from math as you can, until you know what you're doing. Equations and formulas are USELESS until you have acquired an intuitive feel for the science...don't go the route of the useless booklearned engineer............oh we have so many these days...
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microbarn
May 3, 2005, 6:17 AM
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another option
get 3 of these:
http://amos.shop.com/...85-508/adtg/05020523
they are 6 volt lantern batteries that you can pick up anywhere
(6+6+6=18)
you take some wire that you steal off of any old electrical thing laying around
Let's call the batteries A, B, and C
using the wire
connect + of A to - of B
connect + of B to - of C
You will have 18V between + of C and - of A
take a multimeter and measure it to make sure. If you flip the way you measure you could get -18V or +18V. Pay attention to direction you are measuring it.
measure the 18V from the battery that you are replacing paying attention to direction you need to get +18V instead of -18V
do some matching:
direction of +18V for ABC replaces the connection of +18V from battery pack
if you get this wrong it could mess up the drill
Connections are going to be the hard part. Twisting the wires together will work, but it could fall apart if you bump and jostle it.
Find someone with a soldering iron and use that. (They should know how to do this part and will be able to double check your +18 vs -18 voltage.)
There you have it. Now, this will be a fair amount of work and every time you run your batteries down you will have to resolder them. I suggest you just get more replacement batteries, and forget this mess. However, another choice for you:
buy any multiple of 3 number of lantern batteries 6, 9, 12, ..., 300
Every set of three set up like above. Now you will have a couple of 18 V groups.
connect all the + ends
connect all the - ends
now you will have 18 volts from every group and it will last a much longer time.
the first connection I described is what people call series connection because they are in series of one another
the second connection I described is a parallel connection
for carrying you batteries you can just duct tape the whole mess into one block, but make sure that anything touching the bare wires is electrical tape. In fact, you should put electrical tape over all the bare wire that you don't use just to be safe.
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mike_gibson
May 3, 2005, 6:20 AM
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-buy a corded (AC) rotary hammer
-buy a 12V DC to 120V AC converter/transformer
-Hook converter to battery (deep cycle battery not auto battery)
-plug in drill to converter
-check power or amp rating on converter versus amps on rotary hammer because you may cook the converter.
-to hook converter to battery: If you bought a converter that plugs into a cigarette lighter then you will need to cut the end of the cord off and strip the wires back about 1/2 inch. To each bare wire, attach a very large ring lug purchased at your local ACE hardware store. The next question is which wire goes to which battery terminal. If the converter doesn't provide any hints here then you will need an electrician's help to figure this out - unless you know how to use an electric meter. PLus goes to plus, etc.
-Deep cycle batteries, such as those used for campers and boats, handle the repeated full discharge much better than regular automobile batteries.
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bigjonnyc
May 3, 2005, 6:24 AM
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Hey curt and overlord, I ran a quick search on google and foun that they do actually make DC to DC voltage converters. The problem however, is that for anything but cordless power tools, 18V is a rarely used input. Also, they run more expensive than he was probably even looking to spend on his hammer-drill.
Here's one page that offers them:
http://www.powerstream.com/dc-2171.htm
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overlord
May 3, 2005, 6:44 AM
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well, its a converter, not a transformer.
and it probably works like i suggested to solve the prob. and it looks kinda weak for using with a drill.
the 3*6v battery is the best suggestion yet imho.
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lostdog
May 3, 2005, 7:04 AM
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drills, car batteries, voltage? will i be hearing about this on darwinawards.com
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landgolier
May 3, 2005, 7:08 AM
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DC to DC voltage conversion is not that hard, I think the fight earlier was over terminology. I wouldn't advise that somebody build a voltage step up device by hand. Ok, I would advise everybody with an interest in electronics to do it on a table top using plundered lamp wire and AA's or maybe a 9v if you want stronger "negative reinforcement" when you f up, but building something big enough to handle a car battery (capable of huge amperage in short bursts for cranking if I remember right), plugging it into an implement of destruction like a hammer drill, strapping the whole rig to your back, rapping down a cliff, locking off on prusicks or some other such means of making rescue difficult, and firing that puppy up reminds me of the first ghostbusters movie: "Why worry? Each of us is wearing an unlicensed nuclear accelerator on his back."
However, running an 18v device on 14v is not unheard of, I would simply consult the specs and see what the operating range is.
-T
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russwalling
May 3, 2005, 10:45 PM
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my God people.... easy as pie. go to my site and look in the Tech Weenie section. And since 18 is divisible by 6, just get three 6 volt sealed batteries instead of two 12v sealed batteries. You ain't going anywhere with a car battery. www.fishproducts.com
Email me direct if you have any questions (russ@fishproducts.com)
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shutupandclimb
May 3, 2005, 11:05 PM
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Exposed, soldered connections on car batteries bouncing around in a backpack??? .... We'll be hearing from you folks again at the darwin awards.
Anybody actually create any of these ingenious suggestions and carry it around with you?
It's a little more complicated than your grade 10 science lessons.
Dave
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verticallaw
May 5, 2005, 9:37 AM
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perhaps I am missing something but would it not be better (at a sport crag) to just get an inverter and a quick 1/2 hr charger with 2 regular drill batteries? I have done this before and we got about 6-8 charges before the main car battery needed a recharge. This way you can raise and lower extra battaries up and down the cliff instead of climbing with a car battery on your back. We did not use a car battery but a power pack/jumper kit but the principle is the same I guess
P.S. I am not an electrician and therfore do not really know what I am talking about, I do not enjoy soldering connection nor do I like being electrecuted. Keep it simple man
my $.02
VL
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thedesertnomad
May 5, 2005, 9:45 AM
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In reply to: drills, car batteries, voltage? will i be hearing about this on darwinawards.com
Please don't forget the most important part.... while hanging off of a cliff !!!!!!!!!
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slacklinejoe
May 5, 2005, 11:08 AM
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I just thought I should pipe up on those implying that someone's an idiot for going about it w/ a car battery. Next time your at a decent battery store, they will have 18 V batteries for industrial stuff, as well as 6 volt deep cycles for mowers and such.
As a kid, we had retrofitted field lights for fishing - 1 12V deep cycle and 1 6V deep cycle
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ctardi
May 5, 2005, 12:54 PM
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DO NOT solder car batteries!
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slavetogravity
May 5, 2005, 1:20 PM
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Thanks for all the feed back folks. I’ve got it figured out, stay tuned for more exciting installments of “Aaron goes a bolten’”
I guess I should have better described the area better. I”m not talking about dragging a car battery 20 miles into the bush to start bolting on lead up some big wall. I have a hand drill for those occasions. This crag is 20m high easily accessible from the top and is about a 4 minute walk from the car.
Ya... that’s right... ONLY 4 minutes! Bwaaaaaa Ha Ha!! :twisted:
As for all you knuckle head nay sayers who think this is a fools errand. I’ve got four words for ya’ll Cesare Maestri, Compressor Route. Now I’m no Cesare Maestri, but I figure if a man could drag a mini fridge sise compressor up one of the biggest walls on earth, I think I can manage caring my car battery to the crag. :roll:
Now if you’ll excuse me I’m off to Radio Shack to buy my converter. :wink:
Love and kisses. Aaron.
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landgolier
May 5, 2005, 1:38 PM
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Dude, more power to you. I wasn't trying to shut you down at all, just saying don't try to make it complicated. And get in a good ghostbusters reference. Hell, no talent ass clowns like me couldn't climb sport if it weren't for people like you, and we'd all just be boulderers if Russ Walling and a lot of other people hadn't taken considerable risks in knocking some hardware together and seeing if it works. Hope I get to climb at your crag some time.
-T
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