|
tysonsugihara
Jun 15, 2005, 4:33 PM
Post #1 of 20
(3831 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 11, 2005
Posts: 30
|
Any good advice out there for quick onsite recovery from extreme muscle fatigue between climbs?
|
|
|
|
|
kpb
Jun 15, 2005, 5:25 PM
Post #2 of 20
(3831 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 3, 2005
Posts: 55
|
Shake hands over head - 5 seconds.
Shake hands below waist - 5 seconds.
Repeat.
|
|
|
|
|
overlord
Jun 15, 2005, 5:38 PM
Post #3 of 20
(3831 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 25, 2002
Posts: 14120
|
and some light stretching.
|
|
|
|
|
andy_reagan
Jun 16, 2005, 12:14 PM
Post #4 of 20
(3831 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 12, 2004
Posts: 1075
|
I think the most important thing, of course, is to have a solid base of experience and training behind you which has promoted cappillary growth and other physiological changes in your body. This is a major difference that I notice between myself and other more experienced climbers. Simply put, they recover and are closer to 100% much faster than I after exertions close to our respective limits (redpoint attempts, for instance).
That said, I think the advice above is good, shaking out and stretching. I would add a bit of self massage, as well as a bit of light aerobic activity. For instance, I always use the bit of downtime to either walk to a route my partner wants to attempt and belay him, or take a stroll down the cliffline looking at routes I want to try later in the day. This has the added benefit of physically removing me from whatever I am working on, thus giving me a "mental break."
Spinoff question: How long do you rest in between serious red-point attempts? (assuming we are talking about a typical power endurance route and not some one move wonder)
Peace,
Andy
|
|
|
|
|
crag
Jun 16, 2005, 12:19 PM
Post #5 of 20
(3831 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 29, 2003
Posts: 623
|
....and keep yourself hydrated.
|
|
|
|
|
shear
Jun 16, 2005, 3:00 PM
Post #6 of 20
(3831 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 15, 2004
Posts: 350
|
walk around...keep the blood flowing, dont sit down and do nothing. this will only tighten you up and cause the "pump" to sit longer in your forearms.
a mental break is good...walking down the cliff line is a great idea.
drinking water helps break down the lactic acid as well.
|
|
|
|
|
crackboy
Jun 16, 2005, 5:56 PM
Post #8 of 20
(3831 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 14, 2003
Posts: 323
|
it really depends on whether you are talking fatigue vs pump.
pump is just lactic acid buildup, which in layman's terms is messing up the ability of the muscles to perform via pain and degradation. just increase blood flow , by shaking out etc. should go away fairly quickly.
fatigue ie real fatigue is an ion imbalance. calcium gradient in your muscles is out of whack, my suggestion eat a banana, its high in potassium. water alone won't do it since you need electrolytes. recovery will vary depending on what you induced it with. High frequency stim ie laps etc. will recover much faster vs something that is more endurance based.
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
Jun 16, 2005, 6:20 PM
Post #9 of 20
(3831 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
In reply to: High frequency stim ie laps etc. will recover much faster vs something that is more endurance based.
Confused, here. Aren't laps the epitome of endurance climbing?
-Jay
|
|
|
|
|
crackboy
Jun 17, 2005, 8:28 PM
Post #10 of 20
(3831 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 14, 2003
Posts: 323
|
yea, pretty much.
what i was trying to get across is something where you load/unload quickly vs something where you have long periods of loading with an unloading following, so probably not the best examples..
speed climbing vs slow campusing maybe better examples..
get what i am tryin to say?
|
|
|
|
|
caughtinside
Jun 17, 2005, 8:55 PM
Post #11 of 20
(3831 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 8, 2003
Posts: 30603
|
In my experience, the best way to recover from a super pump is to avoid it.
The most important thing for me is a decent warm up. If I get on something hard/pumpy right away, I will get a wicked flash pump, much worse than a normal pump, and will have to climb with forearm soreness the rest of the day.
I also like to shake at most opportunities. If I'm climbing smart, I'll be shaking out at easy stances even when I'm not even close to pumped. This keeps me fresher higher on the route.
But I have no miracle remedy for a heavy pump, other than to shake and stretch.
|
|
|
|
|
nafod
Jun 20, 2005, 3:02 PM
Post #12 of 20
(3831 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 5, 2003
Posts: 110
|
In reply to: In reply to: High frequency stim ie laps etc. will recover much faster vs something that is more endurance based. Confused, here. Aren't laps the epitome of endurance climbing? -Jay
I know crackboy responded, but wouldn't running laps (if you gave max effort each lap with a recovery period prior to the next) be more like circuit training rather than traditional endurance training?
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
Jun 20, 2005, 5:14 PM
Post #13 of 20
(3831 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: High frequency stim ie laps etc. will recover much faster vs something that is more endurance based. Confused, here. Aren't laps the epitome of endurance climbing? -Jay I know crackboy responded, but wouldn't running laps (if you gave max effort each lap with a recovery period prior to the next) be more like circuit training rather than traditional endurance training?
I'm not sure what you mean by "circuit training." As I understand it (based on conversations with fluxus), if the route is hard enough to give you a pump, and you take a timed break between laps that is short enough to allow only partial recovery, then you are training power-endurance (AKA anaerobic endurance). This would, I think, be analogous to interval training that runners do.
-Jay
|
|
|
|
|
hanginaround
Jun 20, 2005, 5:58 PM
Post #14 of 20
(3831 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 28, 2004
Posts: 126
|
Take two vitamin I (Ibuprofen) before climbing.
|
|
|
|
|
nafod
Jun 21, 2005, 1:52 AM
Post #15 of 20
(3831 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 5, 2003
Posts: 110
|
In reply to: In reply to: I know crackboy responded, but wouldn't running laps (if you gave max effort each lap with a recovery period prior to the next) be more like circuit training rather than traditional endurance training? I'm not sure what you mean by "circuit training." As I understand it (based on conversations with fluxus), if the route is hard enough to give you a pump, and you take a timed break between laps that is short enough to allow only partial recovery, then you are training power-endurance (AKA anaerobic endurance). This would, I think, be analogous to interval training that runners do. -Jay
I was thinking along the terms of Tabata Intervals or similar (to include running intervals?) Not sure if they apply to climbing, as I am not sure you could get the heart rate up before the muscles pumped out. Maybe a jugfest route.
The idea of increasing aerobic and anaerobic capacity simultaneously is nice. I've had good results with the approach outside of climbing.
Here's the concept in a nutshell. Google for more info...
Effects of moderate-intensity endurance and high-intensity intermittent training on anaerobic capacity and VO2max.
Tabata I, Nishimura K, Kouzaki M, Hirai Y, Ogita F, Miyachi M, Yamamoto K. ;
Department of Physiology and Biomechanics, National Institute of Fitness and Sports, Kagoshima Prefecture, Japan.
This study consists of two training experiments..First, the effect of 6 wk of moderate-intensity endurance training (intensity: 70% of maximal oxygen uptake (VO2max)...the anaerobic capacity did not increase significantly...while VO2max increased...Second, to quantify the effect of high-intensity intermittent training on energy release, seven subjects performed an intermittent training exercise 5 d.wk-1 for 6 wk. The exhaustive intermittent training consisted of seven to eight sets of 20-s exercise at an intensity of about 170% of VO2max with a 10-s rest between each bout. After the training period, VO2max increased by 7 ml.kg-1.min-1, while the anaerobic capacity increased by 28%. In conclusion, this study showed that moderate-intensity aerobic training that improves the maximal aerobic power does not change anaerobic capacity and that adequate high-intensity intermittent training may improve both anaerobic and aerobic energy supplying systems significantly, probably through imposing intensive stimuli on both systems..
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
Jun 21, 2005, 6:23 PM
Post #16 of 20
(3831 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: I know crackboy responded, but wouldn't running laps (if you gave max effort each lap with a recovery period prior to the next) be more like circuit training rather than traditional endurance training? I'm not sure what you mean by "circuit training." As I understand it (based on conversations with fluxus), if the route is hard enough to give you a pump, and you take a timed break between laps that is short enough to allow only partial recovery, then you are training power-endurance (AKA anaerobic endurance). This would, I think, be analogous to interval training that runners do. -Jay I was thinking along the terms of Tabata Intervals or similar (to include running intervals?) Not sure if they apply to climbing, as I am not sure you could get the heart rate up before the muscles pumped out. Maybe a jugfest route. The idea of increasing aerobic and anaerobic capacity simultaneously is nice. I've had good results with the approach outside of climbing. Here's the concept in a nutshell. Google for more info... Effects of moderate-intensity endurance and high-intensity intermittent training on anaerobic capacity and VO2max. Tabata I, Nishimura K, Kouzaki M, Hirai Y, Ogita F, Miyachi M, Yamamoto K. ; Department of Physiology and Biomechanics, National Institute of Fitness and Sports, Kagoshima Prefecture, Japan. T...to quantify the effect of high-intensity intermittent training on energy release, seven subjects performed an intermittent training exercise 5 d.wk-1 for 6 wk. The exhaustive intermittent training consisted of seven to eight sets of 20-s exercise at an intensity of about 170% of VO2max with a 10-s rest between each bout. After the training period, VO2max increased by 7 ml.kg-1.min-1, while the anaerobic capacity increased by 28%. In conclusion, this study showed that ... adequate high-intensity intermittent training may improve both anaerobic and aerobic energy supplying systems significantly, probably through imposing intensive stimuli on both systems..
I believe that that is precisely what 4x4s and laps on routes with timed rest intervals are designed to do.
-Jay
|
|
|
|
|
crackboy
Jun 21, 2005, 10:10 PM
Post #17 of 20
(3831 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 14, 2003
Posts: 323
|
actually taking ibuprofen before working out is probably one of the worst things you can do. inflammation is key to actually get any benefit from exercise, it stimulates muscle breakdown and reorganization to give you more muscle mass. studies have shown that ibuprofen. slows down recovery, the muscle you get out of it will be substantially weaker than had you recovered without it.
i would agree with dave. just avoid the pump to begin with, the longer you do it, the longer you can go without getting one. if i get a pump to fast it usually throws me off for the rest of my session. though there is somethng to be said of working through it to go to exhasution.
|
|
|
|
|
muncher
Jun 21, 2005, 10:48 PM
Post #18 of 20
(3831 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 5, 2003
Posts: 454
|
Similar to jt, I usually rest around half an hour to an hour between redpoint shots on pumpy routes. During that time I drink lots of water, have something small to eat, like nuts etc and keep moving to stay warm and loose.
As has been discussed above, warming up gradually and using good, efficient technique is probably the best way to limit the amount of fatigue.
Interval training is also a great way to improve your ability to recover from a good solid pump.
|
|
|
|
|
adventurevryday
Jun 21, 2005, 10:51 PM
Post #19 of 20
(3831 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 11, 2005
Posts: 6
|
The main thing is to get the lactic acid out. On track, between races, to "drain the legs" you put your feet up above your head at like a 90 degree angle on a wall, and hold them until your toes start to tingle.. or like a minute. Shake them out, and go. Make sure to stretch your hips after though!
|
|
|
|
|
deadpointman
Jun 22, 2005, 2:02 AM
Post #20 of 20
(3831 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 20, 2003
Posts: 176
|
Creatine.
Try mixing 5 grams of creatine with some sports drink or whatever you like to drink when you climb. Drink this throughout your climbing day, finishing the last of it 30-45 minutes before your last attempt. You might find that you feel like you recover more strength between attempts. I have found this to be the case. Don't ingest too much creatine too often because it will cause your body to retain excess water. In moderation, though, I've found it helpful. If you're so inclined, give it a try!
|
|
|
|
|
|
