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cis or trans?
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bart


Sep 10, 2001, 5:04 AM
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Do you put the snappers of you quickdraws on the same side (cis) or on the opposite side (trans/diagonal)? I've been told that trans would be easier to click in the hook, but that trans would be safer because if the quickdraw turns in the direction of the rope, it (almost) can't click out of the hook. (I hope this explanation is clear enough, English isn't my favorite subject though)


Partner pianomahnn


Sep 10, 2001, 8:21 AM
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HA HA HA

DOUBLE POST!!


bart


Sep 23, 2001, 2:21 PM
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Very funny. Maybe you should have read better since the second one is different because the first one wasn't really correct.

But I still haven't got any opinions...


compclimber


Sep 23, 2001, 4:40 PM
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 Beerandblood I do that too every now and then when I'm unsure if I need a long draw or a short one. By keeping it doubled its the same size as a normal sewn draw, but if i need a longer one I just unclip one of the loops and its twice as long as the original.
My draws are trans and I like them that way alot better.


rck_climber


Sep 23, 2001, 7:57 PM
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All but one of mine are trans, and I find that I like them much better that way. That one that's not always messes me up, so I've all but stopped taking that one unless I really need it.

Mick


kagunkie


Sep 23, 2001, 8:15 PM
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I usually like to have my quick draw biners reversed, that means with the top gate opening facing up and left and the lower gate opening facing down and right. Heres a link to Petzel for some more info. Go to the bottom of the page and click on essential knowlage about carabiners in general
http://www.petzl.com/FRENG/frcarabiners/carabinerframe.html

[ This Message was edited by: kagunkie on 2001-09-23 20:18 ]


bart


Sep 24, 2001, 3:08 AM
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It isn't really called cis and trans, but I remembered that names from my chemistry lessons. It has something to do with the place of the atoms in certain molecules.
H H
\ /
C=C is the formula of 1,2,cis-chloor-
/ \ etheen (indeed, this is Dutch)
Cl Cl

Cl H
\ /
C=C is the formula of 1,2,trans-chloor-
/ \ etheen
H Cl


bart


Sep 24, 2001, 3:11 AM
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I hope you know what I meant, these formulas aren't succesfully shown in my post.


rockjunky


Mar 24, 2002, 2:53 PM
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I fell ya bart who liked O chem anyways.

I'd agree with the posts above. Keep the gates facing the opposite direction your next bolt is
Rockjunky


miagi


Mar 24, 2002, 6:45 PM
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oooo chemistry. To tell you the truth we are on it right now. Cis and Trans aldehydes, keytons, alkanes, carboxilic acids....so much fun
Anyways i have my QD's both cis and trans. The bolt carabiner facing away from the bolt so it doesnt open up is an always and the rope biner goes either way. It just depends on which way im traversing up the rock. If im going right i face it left and vise versa


apollodorus


Mar 24, 2002, 7:05 PM
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Here is the chemical formula for the first ascent of a typical 70's El Cap Wall:


Tequila
||
Coors-Bud-Schlitz-Camels
||
Weed
||
Shrooms
||
Peyote
||
Windowpane


This will be on the test Friday.

[ This Message was edited by: apollodorus on 2002-03-24 19:17 ]


jt512


Mar 25, 2002, 11:15 AM
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Both biners facing the same direction is safer. Do a forums search for my explanation of this.

-Jay


litedawg


Mar 25, 2002, 12:25 PM
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Find j512's psot and explanation about this, he does a great job explaining that the very reasons for being concerned about this issue dictate that it is a case by case decision, not a hard and fast rule applicable to all occations.

The bottom biner's gate should face away from you and your direction of travel as you asend up past the bolt. The top biner's gate should face away from the bolt so the bolt doesn't open the gate as the rope moves it about.


jt512


Mar 26, 2002, 11:36 AM
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Quote:The bottom biner's gate should face away from you and your direction of travel as you asend up past the bolt. The top biner's gate should face away from the bolt so the bolt doesn't open the gate as the rope moves it about.

Hmmm. Either we're talking about different posts or I didn't get my point across.

I think that the gates of both biners should face away from from the line of travel. The bolt head opening the gate is a rarity, and probably only an issue at all with wiregates. My solution is not to use wiregates on the bolt ends of my draws.

You don't want the gate of the top biner facing the direction of travel because, as you climb above the bolt, the rope can pull the draw up, and the gate can end up in the hanger, which can cause it to unclip in a fall. I've explained this in more detail in another post.

The best treatment of this issue I've seen Is here: http://www.tradgirl.com/climbing_faq/safety_2.htm

After clicking on the link, above, scroll down to "How do I clip a bolt to minimize the possibility of self-unclipping?" Also, be sure to click the link to "Climerware" That David Emrich provides.

-Jay



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