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mikewong
Jul 1, 2005, 1:51 AM
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I just bought 20 wire gate biners from BD to replace my old 'heavy' Omegalite biners on my rack to save weight. Granted, my rack is lighter now, but they just don't feel right to me. I can't really describe it other than they feel 'fumbly' and don't seem to rack as well (in terms of 'side by side' on a gear loop). Does anyone else feel the same way? Will I get used to them? Is it just me or am I old fashioned? Mike
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climbinginchico
Jul 1, 2005, 1:55 AM
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I've got at least 60 BD hotwire biners, and I love them. No complaints at all. Good clipping, no gate lash, they seem to rack just fine, reasonably light weight, nice huge basket. I'm betting that you're just not used to them yet. They are just different than your old biners.
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forkliftdaddy
Jul 1, 2005, 3:34 PM
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You'll probably get used to it. For my own curiosity: Which biners did you get? And do you rack gate toward you or gate away from you?
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joshy8200
Jul 1, 2005, 3:55 PM
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I started out with wiregate quickdraws and loved clipping into wiregates so much that when I started putting my rack together I got wiregates for all my cams. I haven't ever noticed any problem racking them. I hope that they get more comfortable for you. If they just don't ever feel comfortable for you...you can always sell them on here and then get yourself some regular biners, but I don't think it'll come to that.
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musicman
Jul 1, 2005, 4:29 PM
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In reply to: and don't seem to rack as well (in terms of 'side by side' on a gear loop) i have been buying some really nice DMM wiregate quick draws and LOVE the way they clip, but from time to time they somewhat overlap on my gear loops, it doesn't take any extra effort to pull them off, it's just more of an annoyance. i think it might have to do with them having such a skinny spine.
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caughtinside
Jul 1, 2005, 4:33 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: and don't seem to rack as well (in terms of 'side by side' on a gear loop) i have been buying some really nice DMM wiregate quick draws and LOVE the way they clip, but from time to time they somewhat overlap on my gear loops, it doesn't take any extra effort to pull them off, it's just more of an annoyance. i think it might have to do with them having such a skinny spine. Have you tried racking them on each other? One draw on the gear loop, and one or two draws racked on the biner thats on the gear loop. Saves space on the loops.
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mikewong
Jul 1, 2005, 4:42 PM
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Thanks for the replies. To answer forkliftdaddy, they're hotwires, and I rack gate in. I retried everything at home on my harness and I guess it has more to do with the uniform feel of the gate to carabiner body with the old style biner more than anything. I think I'll get used to it. The gate tension is really light and smooth though on the hotwires (which I do like). I did, however, put my nuts back on the old standard oval as there seem to be less snags on the gate compared to the wire gate. Mike
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brutusofwyde
Jul 3, 2005, 5:52 PM
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In reply to: I did, however, put my nuts back on the old standard oval as there seem to be less snags on the gate compared to the wire gate. I've been using wiregates for 8 or 9 years now. I think as you get used to them, you'll never look back. Even switched to Neutrinos for my wall rack, which literally cut pounds from the load. I've experienced the snags you talk about as well. Check out DMM wirelocks. I think you'll find these babies perfect for racking multiple wired nuts, Lowe Balls, or Hybrid Aliens. I love 'em. They give you less snags than even blind-gate ovals. So snag free, you'll need to be careful until you get used to them. http://knradventuregear.com/Carabiners/dmm_biners/dmmwirelock.htm Brutus
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kriso9tails
Jul 3, 2005, 7:23 PM
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This may be a little odd, but I only like hotwires (the only wiregates I've liked so far) for the rope end of my sport draws. It has nothing to do with weight reduction since it's sport and I don't climb hard... I just like the clipping action.
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sick_climba
Jul 3, 2005, 7:29 PM
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Personaly I don't know too much about gear. I know what it is and what its for but I'm not great at compairing. Although I do know that I feel much safer with solid gate biners on lead. Wire gates are lighter and prolly just as safe but soild gates just give me that peice of mind. Climb on Chris
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brutusofwyde
Jul 3, 2005, 11:40 PM
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In reply to: I do know that I feel much safer with solid gate biners on lead. Wire gates are lighter and prolly just as safe but soild gates just give me that peice of mind. I know exactly how you feel. I resisted (i.e. was scared to death of) wiregate carabiners for several years after they were introduced, feeling a lot more comfortable with solid gate carabiners. My reasons: 1. Wiregates seemed flimsier, kinda "paper-clippy" 2. I was concerned with how the rope and that thin wire would interact. Seemed like a very narrow edge to have near my rope. 3. Wiregates were new, and I wanted to let others risk finding out what, if anything, was wrong with the concept. I have since become convinced that many wiregates are in some ways far safer than traditional carabiners: Open gate failure has been identified as a major issue in most cases where carabiners have been known to break in falls. Open gates generally occur through two mechanisms: 1) Gate being scraped against the rock, or 2) spine being slapped against the rock, resulting in the gate inertia causing the gate to open. Unless we use locking carabiners on every placement, we can't do much about the first scenario except be aware of the possibility, and orient the carabiner with the spine toward the rock to minimize the chance of this happening. That being said, locking carabiners or carabiners with opposed gates are always a good idea for crucial placements. The second scenario is where wire gates are far superior to traditional carabiners. Wire gates have less mass in the gate, and thus are less likely to come open in this scenario. (Remember that to avoid the first situation, described above, we have oriented the carabiner with the spine toward the rock.) Try this simple test: Holding the end of a traditional carabiner, leaving the gate free to move, slap the spine of the carabiner against your other hand. Listen for the click. Try it again. That clicking you hear is the gate opening due to inertia, then snapping shut again. If your carabiner is loaded in that instant when the gate is open (not unusual, since the whiplash of the carabiner against the rock usually comes just as the carabiner is stopping the fall) your carabiner is only as strong as its open-gate configuration: about 7-9 Kn for most carabiners. Try the same test with any wiregate carabiner. You will have to slap the carabiner far harder to get the gate to open at all. When dealing with gate whiplash, wiregates will usually retain their full closed-gate strength (around 25 Kn) in situations that will cause nearly all traditional carabiners to open (and fail) at around 7-9 Kn. Hope this helps.
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sick_climba
Jul 4, 2005, 6:38 AM
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Hu wow ! didn't know any of that! Learn new things about climbing every day! Thanks for the info bro that will deffinatly help with my wire gate phobia! Later Climb on Chris
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dirtineye
Jul 4, 2005, 6:44 AM
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I love DMM wire locks. But they are expensive.
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brutusofwyde
Jul 4, 2005, 6:28 PM
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In reply to: I love DMM wire locks. But they are expensive. That's why I only own four. Just enough for the wires and such. Brutus
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dirtineye
Jul 5, 2005, 1:31 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: I love DMM wire locks. But they are expensive. That's why I only own four. Just enough for the wires and such. Brutus Then this will make you sick, cause it makes me sick. A gear shop in town bought about 100-200 wirelocks in bulk. They didn't sell too well. He wanted to get rid of em, at 7 bucks each for 10 or more. I said, "Bring em to the comp at HP-40, I have some friends who need biners and they will buy lots at that price." So a couple of friends get a pile o great biners for cheap. Gear shop owning pal never buys in bulk again, I have to pay way more than 7 bucks when I finally decide the wire lock is THE biner for me. And then one of my favorite partners drops one off Whitesides, the bum!
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