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climb512
Sep 10, 2005, 1:34 PM
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I just got around to reading Alpinist 11 and noticed that for the second time the magazine was a mess. Not in content, but in the quality of the printing. The pages were scuffed and offset. Picture quality didn't stand out, it was flat looking. So, I look to see who/where it was printed and I find they are now printing it in China not Canada anymore. I was amazed, a community that represents freedom in the mountains, now the premier magazine for the alpinist is doing their business in a country that has no regard for even the basic human rights. I did not renew, and will no longer purchase the Alpinist. I would have paid more to ensure that the magazine was printed in a country that supported freedom. It is a shame that they have followed the same road as the rest of American manufacturing.
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lordjim
Sep 10, 2005, 2:10 PM
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So what do you think of the print job on issue #9?
FYI if you have a problem with where they are printing tell the guys and gals at Alpinist not us internet dweebs.
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cintune
Sep 10, 2005, 2:45 PM
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You must have gotten a bad copy. Big automated printing presses can screw up no matter what country they're in. If you contact them they'll probably send you a good one. I didn't see any significant production problems with my copy of #11, or #12 for that matter. I've worked in the publishing industry since 1983, so I do notice those sorts of things.
As far as the outsourcing goes, that's a different topic. If more people would subscribe the publishers might be able to afford a Canadian or U.S. shop. Word is that they're not exactly rolling in $$$.
And yes, China does have an atrocious human rights record, but they don't prohibit climbing, so the complaint is kind of hollow, unless you avoid buying anything made in China on freedom-loving principles.
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climbingbetty22
Sep 10, 2005, 4:19 PM
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Wow, if they are outsourcing to China, which companies do in an effort to bring the price of their commodity down, and it still costs $13 an issue. That's sad. Beautiful mag, but I just can't afford $50 for a subscription especially when I'm only getting 4 issues a year. I'm sure plenty of other folks feel the same way and that's why they ain't rollin' in the $$$.
That and after the #12 issue where they did an article on Fountainbleu I'm sure many feel the same as my friend. That conversation went something like this
Friend: "I can't believe they did a whole article on Fountie. It's fucking bouldering."
[indigo]Me[/indigo]: "Didn't you read the editor's piece? He was saying that they choose to feature a bouldering site because, as they pointed out, many great alpinists passed through there on their way to put up standard-setting climbs."
Friend: "Yeah, well, I'm sure that many great alpinists passed through fucking Red Lobster on their way to do standard-setting climbs, but they aren't doing an article on that now are they?"
I'm just about peed my pants laughing.
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climbingnurse
Sep 10, 2005, 4:26 PM
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Do you think that a complete ban on products made in China would make things better or worse for the people in China? And do you actually try to avoid products made in China?
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builttospill
Sep 10, 2005, 5:20 PM
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And as an addition to what climbingnurse said.......if you do, you should take some economics classes.
My edition of the magazine was fine, so I'm guessing you got a bad copy. Word is that they're on the verge of going out of business as it is, and they're barely holding it together. I say anything they can do to cut costs....even if it keeps OUR price the same, is fine with me. It's a great magazine and I'd hate to see it go out of business. I don't have a subscription, but I can never pass it up when I'm at REI, so I have ten issues (backordered a couple).
Cintune: you work in publishing.....how much would you estimate they profit off a sale of a single copy (considering publishing costs, money to the writers, photogs, overhead for buildings, etc)? Any idea? I'm guessing it ain't much.....look at all the pictures, the layout of the magazine, the quality of the articles, etc.
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clintoris
Sep 10, 2005, 5:43 PM
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the funny thing is that he wants us to think he has boycotted the magazine altogether. We all know though that he'll still read the magazine...he simply might not pay for it anymore.
Write them a note if you feel so hurt by it. Maybe it will help.
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addiroids
Sep 10, 2005, 5:56 PM
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How about the cover shot of the marginally pretty girl climbing the cutting edge route Prodigal Son in Zion. Even better was the fact that they bailed. Hmmm, a cover shot of a party that bailed on a 6 hour climb for a magazine that is supposed to rise above the other crap that is out there...
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g-funk
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Sep 10, 2005, 8:12 PM
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In reply to: How about the cover shot of the marginally pretty girl ...
What is this, Cosmo? Who gives a sh!t what the girl looked like. Would she be ok on the cover if she had bailed but was a hottie? That's crap dude.
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euancranston
Sep 10, 2005, 9:14 PM
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The unfortunate thing is publishing companies tend to get in management companies once in a while, the consultant probably used to be a print buyer for some print management co. and decides to get the printing done elsewhere due to labour costs.
As cintune says it doesnt matter what country it gets printed in, you can still get a duff copy. The likelihood is that you got one of the copies just after the press done a make ready and the press was still adjusting for colour etc. and the quality control instilled in that company was pretty poor.
Im surprised that such a publication would outsource to china and at worst would go to Belgium or Germany. (no offence to the Belgians or Germans - but your printing costs are low).
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mark29
Sep 10, 2005, 9:15 PM
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In reply to: If more people would subscribe the publishers might be able to afford a Canadian or U.S. shop.
I love it! So it is the responsibilty of the climbing community to shell out the cost of a cam to keep this rag afloat!?! Maybe if it didn't suck so bad it would make some $$$! Maybe they need some more articles about rollin doobies in Camp 4, or another profile on a mountain nobody will ever see, let alone climb. Perhaps a 'how to' section would do the trick: How to 'sand wash a frying pan'; How to take a close-up photograph of a piton held by a gobied hand; How to sit around the Yosemite Valley Cafeteria for four weeks without going climbing. Maybe they need some more articles on how much Americans suck at 'Alpinism' (by wihch I mean bouldering, sitting around boulders, camping near boulders, living in Boulder, and lighting boulders on fire).
I will miss the photos when Alipinist is gone, but its not like they have any one to blame but themselves.
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addiroids
Sep 11, 2005, 12:34 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: How about the cover shot of the marginally pretty girl ... What is this, Cosmo? Who gives a sh!t what the girl looked like. Would she be ok on the cover if she had bailed but was a hottie? That's crap dude.
My point, numb-nuts, was that they had a cover shot of a party who bailed on a gumby trade route. And even if she was hot and bailed for some bs reason that didn't involve almost dying on some new route, that still shouldn't make for a cover shot.
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climb512
Sep 11, 2005, 12:36 AM
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As a printer for 20 plus years, I realize bad copies are going to happen. I just don't like it being outsourced to China. The owner of printing company I worked for had a tour in a Chinese facility, 12 hour shifts, 6 days a week, workers had to live in dorms and were allowed to go home on their 7 th day.I wonder when they get time to climb in China? If they missed a shift they lost the job. I didn't have a bad issue while it was printed in Canada. I do try avoid any products made in China. I don't care if they are better off or not by our manufacturing being done there. First and foremost how does it it help our people by farming these jobs to countries that pay 80 cents an hour? I did write to the Alpinist, almost 2 weeks ago with no reply. I also stated I would gladly shell out more money per issue to keep it done in North America. I can't beleive they exhausted all avenues of getting it printed here.
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cintune
Sep 11, 2005, 1:14 AM
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In reply to: Cintune: you work in publishing.....how much would you estimate they profit off a sale of a single copy (considering publishing costs, money to the writers, photogs, overhead for buildings, etc)? Any idea? I'm guessing it ain't much.....look at all the pictures, the layout of the magazine, the quality of the articles, etc.
It's hard to say, without knowing what kind of deals they're getting.
But it could be as little as a dollar or two, or even less. Or maybe a little more, but not much.
I'd stop my subscription if it just became an overproduced Climbing or Rock & Ice, but I haven't seen anything like the Fontainebleau story in either of them. All these sports developed out of techniques and equipment that trace back to 19th century alpinism, so I don't see a problem with putting it all under the title.
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highangle
Sep 11, 2005, 1:55 AM
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Suck it up. Call them, and I bet they send you another copy. It's not "Chinese" printing, it's printing, period. You cannot expect a printer, no matter where, to inspect every single copy.
To the rest of you bitching about Alpinist: Every now and then, someone comes up with a quality idea, and has the balls to put it in action. Outside magazine started much the same with literature instead of shit articles, but they gave in to the pressure to be everything to everyone. As I undertand, they (Alpinist) have been BLEEEDING cash, and are trying to keep their heads above water. If that includes printing overseas, so be it. Most of the people bitching won't buy a subscription, much less PAY MORE, god forbid, to keep the printing in the US (nor will most ever come close to the type of route the girl bailed on).
If you appreciate even half of what they are trying to do: quality photos, quality articles (even if you disagree with the dope, Rodden, Fontainebleu or the photo of the girl on 11) and not stooping to the least common denominator, support the mag. Will every issue be perfect? No, but if you prefer to be a poser and buy Climbing or Outside to prove how cool you are, then you can expect quality mags to not stick around.
I hope they last long enough for me to get every issue I subscribed to. I'd even pay twice for the same subscription to get their kind of quality.
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tenesmus
Sep 11, 2005, 2:13 AM
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In reply to: Wow, if they are outsourcing to China, which companies do in an effort to bring the price of their commodity down, and it still costs $13 an issue. That's sad. Beautiful mag, but I just can't afford $50 for a subscription especially when I'm only getting 4 issues a year. I'm sure plenty of other folks feel the same way and that's why they ain't rollin' in the $$$. That and after the #12 issue where they did an article on Fountainbleu I'm sure many feel the same as my friend. That conversation went something like this Friend: "I can't believe they did a whole article on Fountie. It's f---ing bouldering." [indigo]Me[/indigo]: "Didn't you read the editor's piece? He was saying that they choose to feature a bouldering site because, as they pointed out, many great alpinists passed through there on their way to put up standard-setting climbs." Friend: "Yeah, well, I'm sure that many great alpinists passed through f---ing Red Lobster on their way to do standard-setting climbs, but they aren't doing an article on that now are they?" I'm just about peed my pants laughing. |
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j_ung
Sep 11, 2005, 2:21 AM
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In reply to: Friend: "I can't believe they did a whole article on Fountie. It's f---ing bouldering." [indigo]Me[/indigo]: "Didn't you read the editor's piece? He was saying that they choose to feature a bouldering site because, as they pointed out, many great alpinists passed through there on their way to put up standard-setting climbs." Friend: "Yeah, well, I'm sure that many great alpinists passed through f---ing Red Lobster on their way to do standard-setting climbs, but they aren't doing an article on that now are they?"
[Homer]Mmmmmm... Red Lobster... mmmmmm....[/Homer]
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neurostar
Sep 11, 2005, 2:33 AM
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Yea, it's expensive... but it's the only climbing mag I've found so far where I actually feel like I'm getting my money's worth. Well worth it.
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curt
Sep 11, 2005, 2:44 AM
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In reply to: Wow, if they are outsourcing to China, which companies do in an effort to bring the price of their commodity down, and it still costs $13 an issue. That's sad. Beautiful mag, but I just can't afford $50 for a subscription especially when I'm only getting 4 issues a year....
In reply to: That and after the #12 issue where they did an article on Fountainbleu I'm sure many feel the same as my friend. That conversation went something like this Friend: "I can't believe they did a whole article on Fountie. It's fucking bouldering." [indigo]Me[/indigo]: "Didn't you read the editor's piece? He was saying that they choose to feature a bouldering site because, as they pointed out, many great alpinists passed through there on their way to put up standard-setting climbs." Friend: "Yeah, well, I'm sure that many great alpinists passed through fucking Red Lobster on their way to do standard-setting climbs, but they aren't doing an article on that now are they?"
And, get a new friend. This one's a fucking idiot. :wink:
Curt
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all_that_is_rock
Sep 11, 2005, 3:08 AM
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Thanks curt... she slightly misquoted me, as well as missing the point of what I said. I boulder. I like to boulder. I just like to climb big things more. thats why I buy alpinist. because it has literature about people climbing big things. I wouldnt expect to see an article about Fits Roy in bouldr weekly, and I don't really wan't to read about fonti in ALPINIST. The name of the mag does say somthing about what I expect to find inside....can ya dig?
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rockprodigy
Sep 11, 2005, 4:44 AM
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The reason they aren't making money (and probably never will) is because they are targeting an audience that doesn't pay $50 for anything, let alone a magazine subscription. Obviously, they are going after the type of people who climb extremely hard, have little or no respect for their own life, and have enough time to travel to the Karakoram, Patagonia and Greenland all in the same year. The only people who fit in that category are professional climbers, and they get everything comped!
I you want to make money at this, you have to target the average climber, and that means "tech tips", "gear guides" "ask masterbater" and, yes, even stupid, ditzy interviews of scott cory, joe kinder and tori allen.
Climbers are cheap bastards, and alpinists are the ultimate cheap bastards!
Although Alpinist is generally a great product, it will fail, while Urban Climber will probably be very successful...they have a better business plan.
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maculated
Sep 11, 2005, 5:13 AM
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In reply to: I you want to make money at this, you have to target the average climber, and that means "tech tips", "gear guides" "ask masterbater" and, yes, even stupid, ditzy interviews of scott cory, joe kinder and tori allen.
No, they don't. I don't know a single friend that has a subscription to the standard magazines. Not one. I know plenty of people who have a subscription to the Alpinist. It takes a while for all media to get started. The market for good writing and articles is out there - ask Sherman, Long, Krakauer - but Alpinist is doing a crappy job of courting it.
They lost my subscription for two reasons: The same one everyone else moans about, the disappointing subject matter, and the fact that they never send it to me. EVERY ISSUE I have to call in and tell them to frickin' send it.
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superbum
Sep 11, 2005, 5:14 AM
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Friend: "I can't believe they did a whole article on Fountie. It's f---ing bouldering."
[indigo]Me[/indigo]: "Didn't you read the editor's piece? He was saying that they choose to feature a bouldering site because, as they pointed out, many great alpinists passed through there on their way to put up standard-setting climbs."
Friend: "Yeah, well, I'm sure that many great alpinists passed through f---ing Red Lobster on their way to do standard-setting climbs, but they aren't doing an article on that now are they?"
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!
fckn right on!
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superbum
Sep 11, 2005, 5:17 AM
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How the hll do you quote "properly" anyway??...damn frrggn comuperzz fkn dmn tits.
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curt
Sep 11, 2005, 6:14 AM
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In reply to: Thanks curt... she slightly misquoted me, as well as missing the point of what I said. I boulder. I like to boulder. I just like to climb big things more. thats why I buy alpinist. because it has literature about people climbing big things. I wouldnt expect to see an article about Fits Roy in bouldr weekly, and I don't really wan't to read about fonti in ALPINIST. The name of the mag does say somthing about what I expect to find inside....can ya dig?
I can dig. However, if you missed the Alpinist article's key point (that there is a direct connection between the history of alpinism and the history of bouldering) then I really don't think you are truly interested in either.
Curt
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