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troymayr
Dec 15, 2005, 1:50 AM
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Williamson Access Update 12.14.05
First off THANKS to all who have signed on as Friends of Williamson.
Currently we have around 150 people in our database. This is great but I know there are many more of you that climb at Williamson than that!
We desperately need more climbers, there is strength in numbers, I cannot stress this enough! Spread the word, send e-mails and If you haven’t already I URGE you to contact us immediately at the following link:
http://williamsonrock.org/
Here is the latest.
Yesterday 12.13.05 I attended a field trip / meeting at Williamson with several people from the agencies involved, including an Access Fund trail building expert, The Forest Service, The USGS and the Dept of Fish & Wildlife.
Here is a brief recap of what occurred.
-At this point it appears that some kind of closure is highly likely. The objective of all of these potential closures (in the eyes of land managers) would be to protect the Yellow Legged Mtn Frog (YLMF), which is a threatened and endangered species. What this means exactly is unclear. Several types of closures were discussed… We (climbers) believe (and the historical data suggests) that climbing has not had a negative effect on the frogs. This is good but the solution to future access to the crag is not that simple. These are the three most likely possible scenarios:
-The most severe, complete closure to the area, period. From their perspective this is the easiest solution in term of management, policing and protection of the YLMF.
-Closing critical habitat areas of the frog, upstream and downstream from the crag.
-Closing access to the cliffs that are next to the stream.
When and if this happens depends on many complicated (legal and other) factors within the agencies involved. This is very serious situation. There are strict laws that call for the protection of endangered species.
-The Access Fund Trail Engineer stated that the ‘short rail’ needs to be defined (ie. cairns put up) and any offshoot trails (scree slopes) need to be blocked and / or have signage put up blocking access. Otherwise the ‘short trail’ is suitable for access to the crag. Good news. Basically, all climbers need to use a Single Defined Trail to minimize impacts to the endangered plant (I won’t go into details about the plant or the falcon nesting… one step at a time). Furthermore, by defining the short trial this would also serve to keep wayward climbers away from the frog’s habitat.
As I’ve stated many times before, both here and in person to many climbers at the crags, Williamson has been under strict observation from biologists, botanists and others from the agencies involved for over 5 years now. While the majority of climbers do not go down the scree or leave trash, it is unfortunate that toilet paper and trash (most notably cig butts) have been noticed by land managers, as well has the obvious scars left from going down scree slopes. These scree and trash issues have come up again and again. It just adds to the problem. When I state to these agencies how responsible, environmentally aware and proactive climbers are I get shut down by these negative examples. We must be seen as proactive, unified, self policing and most importantly as positive stewards to the area in and around Williamson Rock. I know for the most part Williamson is very clean and most of us have done a great job cleaning up after ourselves and others. Unfortunately it only takes one visible pile of human waste, TP or a couple cig butts to cause major repercussions. We should keep this in mind when we climb at Any Area… If we do get a chance to work with land managers and keep access open at Williamson it is imperative that the highest standards of wilderness ethics are upheld, we are being closely watched.
What can you do?
-If you have already signed on 'Friends of Williamson' just wait for further instructions.
As we get organized and proceed through legal issues we will contact you with news, fundraising queries, letter writing, petition signing and or phone in campaigns.
-If you haven’t please sign on NOW at:
http://williamsonrock.org/
Finally to reiterate since many of you have asked…
-Yes we have legal representation.
-Yes we are working with the Access Fund.
Thanks again!
Climb-on,
Troy Mayr
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chanceboarder
Dec 15, 2005, 3:59 AM
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thanks for the update troy.
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jdouble
Dec 15, 2005, 8:54 PM
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Many thanks Troy.
Bump
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blouderk2
Dec 16, 2005, 12:25 AM
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Thanks a lot Troy.
Bump.
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addiroids
Dec 16, 2005, 1:41 AM
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In reply to: -At this point it appears that some kind of closure is highly likely. The objective of all of these potential closures (in the eyes of land managers) would be to protect the Yellow Legged Mtn Frog (YLMF), which is a threatened and endangered species. These are the three most likely possible scenarios: -The most beneficial to nature, complete closure to the area, period. From their perspective this is the easiest solution in term of management, policing and protection of the YLMF. -Closing critical habitat areas of the frog, upstream and downstream from the crag. -Closing access to the cliffs that are next to the stream. There are strict laws that call for the protection of endangered species.
Yes there are, and why aren't you helping to uphold those laws?
Let's call this:
Nature 1 Smoking Polluters 0
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td
Dec 16, 2005, 4:36 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: - There are strict laws that call for the protection of endangered species.Yes there are, and why aren't you helping to uphold those laws? Let's call this: Nature 1 Smoking Polluters 0
The reason why is that usually a reasonable compromise can still be found that will protect the species and still allow climbing. The cliffs only directly go past the creek for about 50 yards. The creek continues on far beyond.
Certainly in an ideal world, all climbers would police themselves as far as staying on the trail and leaving no trace. But in the real world, look at the efforts it has taken to get climbers at Rainier, Shasta, & Yosemite walls to pack their waste out. When climbers approached the Forest Service over the last 15 years on how to really push such efforts at Williamson, the FS buried its head in the bureaucratic sand.
If no compromise should ever be considered, then climbers like Addiroids should probably just stop emitting CO2.
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snoangel
Dec 16, 2005, 7:10 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: -At this point it appears that some kind of closure is highly likely. The objective of all of these potential closures (in the eyes of land managers) would be to protect the Yellow Legged Mtn Frog (YLMF), which is a threatened and endangered species. These are the three most likely possible scenarios: -The most beneficial to nature, complete closure to the area, period. From their perspective this is the easiest solution in term of management, policing and protection of the YLMF. -Closing critical habitat areas of the frog, upstream and downstream from the crag. -Closing access to the cliffs that are next to the stream. There are strict laws that call for the protection of endangered species.Yes there are, and why aren't you helping to uphold those laws? Let's call this: Nature 1 Smoking Polluters 0
Dude, you really need to stop being an ass. If we were to truly allow access to the outdoors based on what was most beneficial to nature, all areas would be closed off and the human race would basically need to be eliminated. ALL climbing in ALL areas is harmful to nature in one way or another. If climbers, or for that matter any outdoor athletes, are to be able to pursue their activity, compromises need to be made on both sides.
And just to make myself clear, I consider myself an environmentalist. (I also am not a smoker nor a polluter, so I take offense to your comment.) Yet I've gotten to the point in my life where I realize that things are not as black and white as we'd like them to be. We live in a world of greys, with many subtle tones throughout the spectrum.
And...Leave no trace is impossible, leave a very little trace is possible.
Rita
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dingus
Dec 16, 2005, 7:29 PM
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In reply to: If we were to truly allow access to the outdoors based on what was most beneficial to nature, all areas would be closed off and the human race would basically need to be eliminated. ALL climbing in ALL areas is harmful to nature in one way or another.
I don't buy this line of reasoning. I am as much a part of nature as an oak tree growing from a crack or a frog under a rock.
DMT
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chanceboarder
Dec 16, 2005, 8:08 PM
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i think dingus and snoangel are both right in a way and both bring up good points. humans are a part of nature just as much as the trees and frogs. we're all on this planet together. unfortunately humans have evolved in such a way the we create a greater impact when we leave our urban jungles and venture into the outdoors where the rest of nature lives and has evolved and learned to coexist with each other and have found a balance.
i think that because we, the human race, are just as much a part of nature we deserve to able to experience it just like the trees and frogs. but when we venture into these place we need to remember that this is where the rest of nature lives and deserves our respect and our help to preserve their home. that's why this friends of Williamson thing and all the work that troy and jack and everyone else who has signed up are working to figure out. we're trying to figure the best way to be able to enjoy nature and our own person pursuit of rock climbing while still protecting the rest of nature and their way of life. things like moving trails around sensitive areas for frogs or restricting climbing in certain areas for falcons or installing bathrooms are all some of the ways we can help the environment and protect it for everyone and everything.
i'm an environmentalist myself as well (its what i'm in school for) and i try to leave a little trace as possible when i go outdoors. i have also worked for environmental groups in the past and i know the best way to help nature and help ourselves is for everyone to come together and work on solutions with other groups and agencies and figure out what is best for everyone and everything. so everyone sign up with troy and lets solve these issues together. http://troymayr.com/climb_contact.pl
Jason
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snoangel
Dec 16, 2005, 10:13 PM
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^^^Hear hear!! :D
Bump...
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fredbob
Dec 16, 2005, 11:34 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: - There are strict laws that call for the protection of endangered species.Yes there are, and why aren't you helping to uphold those laws? Let's call this: Nature 1 Smoking Polluters 0
The area where the frogs are found is not along the cliff at all, but well upstream. The field biologists who have been studying the frogs for several years do not recommend closing the cliff or contend that climbing presents a threat to the frogs.
Why not actually try and read the scientific literature and meet and discuss the situation with people who actually have first hand knowledge of the situation? Then you can develop an informed opinion. But perhaps its easier to quip from the sidelines.
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jdouble
Dec 21, 2005, 3:48 PM
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Any news from the meeting yesterday?
Thanks all.
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itakealot
Jan 2, 2006, 9:45 PM
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Willies is closed!
http://williamsonrock.org/blog/
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addiroids
Jan 3, 2006, 5:48 PM
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Victory for nature!!!
Go bolt Double Cross in Joshua Tree now. The turtles don't care as long as no body builds curbs on their road crossings!!
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travelin_light
Jan 3, 2006, 7:01 PM
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loser.
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soulsurfer
Jan 3, 2006, 7:46 PM
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As of Dec 26th there were only around 150 people that were signed up. :cry:
I am pretty sure there are that many people there on a busy summer weekend.
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dingus
Jan 3, 2006, 7:48 PM
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In reply to: If we were to truly allow access to the outdoors based on what was most beneficial to nature, all areas would be closed off and the human race would basically need to be eliminated. ALL climbing in ALL areas is harmful to nature in one way or another. And just to make myself clear, I consider myself an environmentalist.
I would never have guessed, with that 'humans are a plague' routine.
I reject the notion that all climbing is harmful to nature. I believe that some climbing (manufactureof the equip aside for the moment) is not harmful to nature at all and that most is only minimally so.
DMT
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snoangel
Jan 11, 2006, 6:53 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: If we were to truly allow access to the outdoors based on what was most beneficial to nature, all areas would be closed off and the human race would basically need to be eliminated. ALL climbing in ALL areas is harmful to nature in one way or another. And just to make myself clear, I consider myself an environmentalist. I would never have guessed, with that 'humans are a plague' routine. I reject the notion that all climbing is harmful to nature. I believe that some climbing (manufactureof the equip aside for the moment) is not harmful to nature at all and that most is only minimally so. DMT
Way to selectively pull parts of my post thus losing the context. :evil:
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