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fivesix


Jan 24, 2006, 8:31 AM
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Double Whammy!!!
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Double Whammy? what? you've never been to a double whammy comp?

To all of you in the South East Region, and beyond(!) this is probably one of the better indoor comps! Featuring the USAC and the ABS in one Comp! Both are on the Redpoint format so the climbing just goes on and on!
The boulder problems are consistant throughout the grades and 85% of them are done on overhanging wall! Kinda what you'd expect from an outdoor comp.
The toprope covers all the grades from 5.6 - 5.13-, the angles in the gym are pretty consistant therefore making the grades feel right on par, again what you'd expect!
The creativity of the routes in this comp is what sets it apart from others. Im sure all the other gyms would tell you the same, but theres a reason why we get so many high quality competitors, and its not because the they're fighting for ribbons.

The Double Whammy Competition
February 25th 4pm - 8pm
Inner Peaks Climbing Center
Charlotte, NC
www.innerpeaks.com


Partner j_ung


Jan 24, 2006, 8:36 AM
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Featuring routes set by me. toot! toot!

Oh, and uh... some other guys will be setting, too. :lol: :P


sidepull


Jan 24, 2006, 8:42 AM
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In reply to:
The boulder problems are consistant throughout the grades and 85% of them are done on overhanging wall! Kinda what you'd expect from an outdoor comp.
The toprope covers all the grades from 5.6 - 5.13-, the angles in the gym are pretty consistant therefore making the grades feel right on par, again what you'd expect!

I'm not sure I understand your reliance on consistency of grades and wall angles - is that supposed to be a draw that things are going to be homogenously steep? Or are you arguing that it's impossible to compare v5 roofs with v5 slabs?

Sorry, it's just ambiguous, plus if it's either reason then those are reasons not to go. Variety is good.


blueeyedclimber


Jan 24, 2006, 8:50 AM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
The boulder problems are consistant throughout the grades and 85% of them are done on overhanging wall! Kinda what you'd expect from an outdoor comp.
The toprope covers all the grades from 5.6 - 5.13-, the angles in the gym are pretty consistant therefore making the grades feel right on par, again what you'd expect!

I'm not sure I understand your reliance on consistency of grades and wall angles - is that supposed to be a draw that things are going to be homogenously steep? Or are you arguing that it's impossible to compare v5 roofs with v5 slabs?

Sorry, it's just ambiguous, plus if it's either reason then those are reasons not to go. Variety is good.


No, I believe what he is saying is that, with a constant angle (say 45 deg.), it is easier to set a competition style route. Comp routes are supposed to gradually increase in difficulty with no rests and no cruxes. It is hard not to have a crux when your terrain switches angles (say going from vertical to a roof).

Josh


edge


Jan 24, 2006, 8:55 AM
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No, I believe what he is saying is that, with a constant angle (say 45 deg.), it is easier to set a competition style route. Comp routes are supposed to gradually increase in difficulty with no rests and no cruxes. It is hard not to have a crux when your terrain switches angles (say going from vertical to a roof).

Josh

Well said, Josh! If everyone realized this, my job of judging would be so much easier!

So, will you be competing/watching at the Adult Nationals on March 4? Has Metrorock announced anything new about the comp?

I will be there on the third to talk to the routesetters and locate maps, etc.


Partner jammer


Jan 24, 2006, 9:31 AM
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I don't know if you two are talking about the same comp?!? fivesix states "February 25th 4pm - 8pm " and you mention March 4th to set up. Are these the same??


Partner jammer


Jan 24, 2006, 9:34 AM
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I don't know if you two are talking about the same comp?!? fivesix states "February 25th 4pm - 8pm " and you mention March 4th to set up. Are these the same??


edge


Jan 24, 2006, 9:50 AM
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I don't know if you two are talking about the same comp?!? fivesix states "February 25th 4pm - 8pm " and you mention March 4th to set up. Are these the same??

Yes, different comp. I was asking Josh about one of the two large upcoming comps at his home gym.

The comp in Charlotte is too far for me to travel to unless 1) my daughter needed to compete there to advance to USAC Nationals or 2) I was getting paid to judge/set/look good.


blueeyedclimber


Jan 24, 2006, 12:36 PM
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In reply to:

No, I believe what he is saying is that, with a constant angle (say 45 deg.), it is easier to set a competition style route. Comp routes are supposed to gradually increase in difficulty with no rests and no cruxes. It is hard not to have a crux when your terrain switches angles (say going from vertical to a roof).

Josh

Well said, Josh! If everyone realized this, my job of judging would be so much easier!

So, will you be competing/watching at the Adult Nationals on March 4? Has Metrorock announced anything new about the comp?

I will be there on the third to talk to the routesetters and locate maps, etc.

I am going to start setting for more comps, which means I probably will not be competing. I think I am setting for the February comp but have not been approached for the March one yet. Bill schifone, our head route setter, asked if I would commit to more comp setting. So, I guess my competing days are over....oh wait, they never started to begin with.

Josh


johnathon78


Jan 24, 2006, 1:36 PM
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Is this competition open to all? Just anyone in general? Tell me more!


deltav


Jan 24, 2006, 2:54 PM
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Never been to a comp at IP, but I can assure everyone that the routes there are all of the highest quality.


sidepull


Jan 24, 2006, 3:41 PM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
The boulder problems are consistant throughout the grades and 85% of them are done on overhanging wall! Kinda what you'd expect from an outdoor comp.
The toprope covers all the grades from 5.6 - 5.13-, the angles in the gym are pretty consistant therefore making the grades feel right on par, again what you'd expect!

I'm not sure I understand your reliance on consistency of grades and wall angles - is that supposed to be a draw that things are going to be homogenously steep? Or are you arguing that it's impossible to compare v5 roofs with v5 slabs?

Sorry, it's just ambiguous, plus if it's either reason then those are reasons not to go. Variety is good.


No, I believe what he is saying is that, with a constant angle (say 45 deg.), it is easier to set a competition style route. Comp routes are supposed to gradually increase in difficulty with no rests and no cruxes. It is hard not to have a crux when your terrain switches angles (say going from vertical to a roof).

Josh

I'm really not trying to be a smart alleck - I'm asking out of curiosity and surprise - who says that comp routes are supposed to gradually increase in difficulty? why no rests? Isn't this pretty subjective - some dudes can shake out on mono's others can't, similarly, endurance can make routes gradually harder whether the angle or hold size changes or not.


fivesix


Jan 24, 2006, 7:51 PM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
The boulder problems are consistant throughout the grades and 85% of them are done on overhanging wall! Kinda what you'd expect from an outdoor comp.
The toprope covers all the grades from 5.6 - 5.13-, the angles in the gym are pretty consistant therefore making the grades feel right on par, again what you'd expect!

I'm not sure I understand your reliance on consistency of grades and wall angles - is that supposed to be a draw that things are going to be homogenously steep? Or are you arguing that it's impossible to compare v5 roofs with v5 slabs?

Sorry, it's just ambiguous, plus if it's either reason then those are reasons not to go. Variety is good.


No, I believe what he is saying is that, with a constant angle (say 45 deg.), it is easier to set a competition style route. Comp routes are supposed to gradually increase in difficulty with no rests and no cruxes. It is hard not to have a crux when your terrain switches angles (say going from vertical to a roof).

Josh

I'm really not trying to be a smart alleck - I'm asking out of curiosity and surprise - who says that comp routes are supposed to gradually increase in difficulty? why no rests? Isn't this pretty subjective - some dudes can shake out on mono's others can't, similarly, endurance can make routes gradually harder whether the angle or hold size changes or not.

thats a whole nother topic... however what i was trying to get across is what Josh was saying.

bottom line , its good its creative and its worth the time!

thanks guys:)


fivesix


Jan 24, 2006, 7:55 PM
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oh yes , and J Young will be setting for the comp as well 'toot-toot'{im not sure what toot-toot is or means, but i think it might have something to do with the fact that he has owls in his attic}(what am i saying... he has a Hooters Platinum card:) :) :)


fivesix


Feb 1, 2006, 9:01 PM
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hey alright! we had our first online registration come through yesterday, still 24 days to get it done. we're still gearing up towards the event, we had a bunch of prizes come in last week and its looking good, still more on the way!
you know i was wondering..... we get quite a few (wonderful) organizations/companies to sponsor us and last year we managed to hand out a rope as one of the top prizes for climbing, but it seems really strange that you never get any of the bouldering companies to hand out crash pads to the boulder'ers?
why is that? just a thought, any takers???

cheers 8^)


sidepull


Feb 2, 2006, 12:19 PM
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Daniel Woods won a Mad Rock crash pad at the comp in SLC last Saturday - then he threw it into the crowd. Pretty cool.


daithi


Feb 2, 2006, 12:38 PM
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In reply to:
I'm asking out of curiosity and surprise - who says that comp routes are supposed to gradually increase in difficulty?

Because ideally the stronger a climber is, the higher they will get on the route before they fall off. In other words the higher you climb the better you are.

In reply to:
why no rests?

Because it is a bit dull for the audience to watch some guy shake out for 10 minutes on a huge jug before he commits to a move.


sidepull


Feb 2, 2006, 3:28 PM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
I'm asking out of curiosity and surprise - who says that comp routes are supposed to gradually increase in difficulty?

Because ideally the stronger a climber is, the higher they will get on the route before they fall off. In other words the higher you climb the better you are.

I really should just let this lie . . . notice that you answer a completely different question from the one that is being asked. I'm not asking "why" I'm asking "who." Climbing is a sport of emergent rules and norms so I was interested (e.g. curious) in understanding how this consensus had been formed regarding route setting in competitions. Also notice that you answer to the why question implies that the stronger climber is the better climber which isn't necessarily true in competitions (or on the rock). If you read Performance Rockclimbing, Dale and Udo describe in detail how Francois Legrand blows a sequence that Yuji climbs differently and in doing so loses a comp although he was arguably stronger.

In reply to:
In reply to:
why no rests?

Because it is a bit dull for the audience to watch some guy shake out for 10 minutes on a huge jug before he commits to a move.

I was asking people to read between the lines too much here. I'm in no way arguing for jugs half way up the route. I was assuming climbers would be creative and find their own rests and so I felt the statement that comp climbs should have no rests seemed a bit ridiculous, hence, this was a rhetorical question. I'm sorry - this was completely unclear. I agree that 10 minutes of shaking out is boring (although a lot of people argue that difficulty comps are boring to begin with).


daithi


Feb 2, 2006, 3:45 PM
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Sorry I misread your original question, which incidentally seems a bit redundant. A more useful question would have been why!

In reply to:
who says that comp routes are supposed to gradually increase in difficulty?

Me! It also seem to be the consensus among those who set routes for half-decent competitions.


cintune


Feb 2, 2006, 4:32 PM
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In reply to:
Sorry I misread your original question, which incidentally seems a bit redundant. A more useful question would have been why!

So....why?


fivesix


Feb 3, 2006, 8:41 PM
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yea great to see that you guys have really gotten into the whole comp topic(!!!) i dont think that our routes or problems will get progressively more and more difficult the longer you are on the wall, i think that once you hit the crux, we'll just try to sustain it from there!
but then again who knows, some may get hard, some may lay down, it all depends how the route setter wishes it to go.
personally i set boulder problems that are very sustained, although admittedly i do get carried away and make like a 15 move sequence of sustained V7, which.... gets sandbag! sorry! wont be doing that in the comp hey!

i think that routes/problems in comps should be something that excites someone of any grade level to the point where they feel overwhelmed by mental and physical emotions from great happiness all the way through to sadness. not necessarily in that order, but you know.
"great problem", "aarrggh, its just that one move", "i hate climbing!", "this is the best i've ever climbed!"
the hype, the stress, the tension, the blood, the screams, this is where it happens!

:wink:


fivesix


Feb 20, 2006, 8:44 AM
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hey, just wanted to knock it one last time seen as the comp is this weekend feb25. early registration ends on the night of the 22nd so get 'em in before then. the setters are hard at work as i speak!!! by the end of today we'll have about 50% of all the problems and routes up (hopefully?!)
we've coordinated with alot peeps to be there. i know CCC is going to be there with their great news. montrail is gonna be there, a bunch of other vendours will be there, and ovcourse J_UNG will be there to make sure that every buckle is doubled back and no shoe is left un-velcro'ed.

thanks for the support, see ya there

cheers :wink:


verbal


Feb 20, 2006, 8:58 AM
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Comps don't measure who is stronger, comps measure who is a better climber on that given day. I know some weak people who climb well, and some strong folks who don't climb well.

Comp routes in general should consistently get harder, you definitley don't want a route where if you do a particular move you should be able to get to the top. It will result in a lot of ties, either everyone falls at the crux or everyone gets to the top. This is how it should be in the finals at least of a route comp.

Oh yea, Inner Peaks comps have been good in the past. I think I will go this saturday.


Partner j_ung


Feb 20, 2006, 9:51 AM
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Actually, Donovan, I won't be there on comp day, except in spirit (and in routes). :(

But I'll be in setting tonight, tomorrow night and the next. :D

Aaaannnnd... I guess I'll chime with my opinion on comp routes. I think the progressive difficulty theory is more important for onsight formats, where competitors are scored based on how high they get in one try. If routes are not progressively more difficult, you end up with a lot of ties. Redpoint comps (such as the DW at IP) are scored differently and it isn't quite as important, because tiebreakers come from the number of attempts it takes to send. That's not to say that I don't aim for progressive difficulty in redpoint comp routes. I do, but only because I think it makes for more exciting attempts. And IMO, boulder problems in comps are best when they're just full-on desperate for the grade all the way through.


fivesix


Feb 26, 2006, 7:33 PM
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hey thanks guys, that was a great comp. really appreciatce all the great enthusiasm and contributions made by all. i must realy thank our volunteers who did a wonderful job. and i have to say that the sponsors really went all out for us , and that just cant go with out a huge thanks!

MONTRAIL out did themselves, they demo'ed some shoes, gave a bunch away, and really helped the vibe of the comp.

STERLING ROPES gave up a rope for all competitors to win, so we raffelled it off, and lets just say someone's climbing on a nice new rope tomorrow!

EVOLV gave us a the oppertunity to give away one of their new line of shoes

PRANA got us awesome mens and womens clothing

GREAT OUTDOOR PROVISION handed out tons of gift certs worth a bunch of $$$

OLD TOWN OUTFITTERS did just as good a job as GOP which we are greatful for

JESSE BROWNS OUTDOORS cap'ed if off with a great deal of their gift certs as well

and i would also like to mention these guys.....

HEAVENLY SUNDAE'S
MISTY MOUNTAIN
EMS
BLACK DIAMOND
GREGORY BACKPACKS
EP HOLDS
E-GRIPS

thanks so much everyone....

88 competitors USAC and ABS (ps Craig Wagner the USAC guy is great, glad to see someone doing something!) and all the neighbouring gyms, thanks so much!!!

see ya guys on the rock or somewhere in some near future!!!

cheers
8^)


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