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marcel
Aug 14, 2002, 8:24 PM
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There has been a lot of talk about old climbers on the post the last couple of days. How about some old climbing stories about the way things use to be?
For instance, when I started climbing gold line rope was the standard, we didn’t use harness, and body rappels were a normal thing. Any of you old timers remember the HOT SEAT
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oldandintheway
Aug 14, 2002, 9:11 PM
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Ah, yes! Good old Goldline. Nothing like running a twisted rope through a Sticht plate eh? Had almost as much elasticity as bungee cord.
Anyone else tie a Swami? Take a fall on it and your spine could fold like a warm tortilla. Remember the original GPIW Hexcentrics and the drill template for lightening holes? Brass nuts? Think I still have some "Trolls" somplace. What about those first cams that Lowe came out with?
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marcel
Aug 14, 2002, 10:10 PM
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In 1969 after climbing for a few years I decided to attend the Exum School of Mountaineering. In those days they still taught a lead climber to wrap the gold line around ones waist 3 times and then tie it all together with a bowline and a hand over safety knot. If you weren’t leading you only had to wrap the rope once around your waist before tying in with the bowline. And it was all body belays. Rope burns on the arms and the back were very common in those days. Yes, climbing techniques, gear and safety have come a long way!
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krustyklimber
Aug 14, 2002, 10:51 PM
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Wow thanks Marcel,
I suddenly feel like a spring ckicken again!
I can finally say to someone here "nope that's before my time", and I am thrilled!
I didn't start until 1976 and then it was only toproping with my Boy Scout troop, with that good ol' Goldline tied twice around the waist and a münter hitch belay.
It wasn't until after high school that I climbed again and by then we had gone to the Swami, which was brutal at best. As a second I was nearly strangled as I hung after I fell repeatedly out of earshot of my leader who couldn't hear my gasping cries to be lowered (the rope turned out to be stuck and he couldn't have anyhow). I then remembered the Bond (or was it Eastwood?)movie and shoelace prusiked my way to the next ledge where I lay cursing myself and swearing I would never climb again. Until that night at the campfire, when I was ready again for the next days epics.
Luckily for me the Whillan's harnesses came out that very month! So before I ever lead I was lucky enough to have one.
But my friend moved away suddenly that fall, and I went out and bought Royals books and spent the winter "preparing myself" and convincing my little brother to climb with me. I got a rope and a Chouinard starter kit that winter too, the kit had just enough gear to get yourself really runout as we soon found out that following spring!
I am lucky not to have killed us so many times now that I look back on it, no wonder he just rolls his eyes at me when I ask him to go climbing. He stopped climbing after he and my other little brother drove me to the hospital, when I took a huge fall and dirted right next to them and tumbled off into the bushes!
Ahh, the good ol' days...
I agree, NOT!
Jeff
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marcel
Aug 14, 2002, 11:31 PM
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Great story krustyklimber!! I too had a
Whillan's harnesses. It was atleast 1000% better than the old wrap around the waist routine.
I was also lucky enouogh to meet Don Whillan shortly before he died. Man, what a character that guy was!
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toobigtoclimb
Aug 14, 2002, 11:36 PM
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Whillan's Harness. What luxury!! We used to make our own seat harnesses out of tied webbing. It seemed fine then, but I had to make one out of desperation about a year ago. Man was it hard on "the boys."
I'll take modern technology!!
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climbsomething
Aug 15, 2002, 12:06 AM
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Wow, this kid is v. glad to have modern technology... body rappels, tying the rope around the waist, swamis... ucky! My kidneys liquify at the thought...
Think climbing technology will make more gains that huge? Will I be able to say "back in my day, Aliens and C4 rubber were the best thing going"?
OK, not to make you feel like dinosaurs , but what is a Whillans harness? Goldline rope?
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marcel
Aug 15, 2002, 12:17 AM
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Ok climbsomething here is the answers to your quetions. Gold line rope is a 3 strand nylon rope. You can still get it. It's very stretchy, so falling on it was like falling on a rubber band. Raping on it was extra fun too because of the stretch. The Whillans harness was one of the first commercial harness. Don Whillans or was it Whillan, was a British Climber of much fame in his days. He had a fairly full line of climbing gear, but his harness was the only thing that I know of that cought on over here in the States. His harness was very much like todays cheaper harnesses made from 2 inch webbing. I have no idea what happend to mine, I wish I still had it just to show people.
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oldandintheway
Aug 15, 2002, 12:20 AM
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Somebody hand me my cane so I can knock the kid upside his head!
Goldline was an affordable nylon twisted rope. Very durable, great for raps, and top roping. Hardy souls actually led with it. Harsh on the hands for newbies and a little heavy. Most people I knew had 120'. Played hell in early belay devices though because of the twisted construction.
Who here had a pair of RR's? What I find unnerving is the last time I was in Yosemite Valley the mountain shop had items I still own in their display of older equipment.
[ This Message was edited by: oldandintheway on 2002-08-14 17:24 ]
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marcel
Aug 15, 2002, 12:24 AM
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Opps, forgot to say Gold line, was just that gold in color, unless you got it from the Army Surplus store and then it was green.
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toobigtoclimb
Aug 15, 2002, 12:37 AM
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I actually liked Gold Line. A little tough on the falls, great for raps.
I wore my old high top Fire's to the climbing gym once. That was a crowd pleaser.
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apollodorus
Aug 15, 2002, 2:12 AM
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My first rope was 150 feet of Goldline. After using it a short time, my younger brother and I died financially buying an 11mm and a 9mm (for rappels) Edelreid. The Goldline wound up fixed to the top of this huge leaning pine tree in our yard, so we could jug the free hanging line. The local paper came out and did an article on us (this was a SMALL town with a SMALL newspaper . . .) Later, we tied a butterfly knot in the rope, so we could stand on the second story deck railing, grab hold and swing like crazed monkeys out over the steep driveway. It was the hit of the neighborhood. I still can't believe my parents let us do that. We were only 14 or 15 years old.
My favorite story from the Good Old Days is doing the Rotten Log on the Royal Arches twice before some idiot trundled the thing.
Or maybe it was meeting Chouinard and Frost at the Great Pacific Iron Works in Ventura ("WHOA! It's CHOUINARD!") about the same time. We each got a book for Christmas that year, signed by the Two Legends. I still have mine ("On Ice and Rock and Snow", by Gaston Rebuffat).
I have to admit, though, that the Good Old Days, before cams, required more skill in placing pro. Hexes were, and still are, pretty cool, but slamming in a cam is SO much faster (read: safer), that I'm not going to go Purist on any route soon.
Anybody out there still have a pair of EBs? What about PAs? My Chouinard Asolos are finally going to be retired because they no longer fit. And the rubber is so hard now, I almost fell on the 5.7 friction move on the Snake Dike last June.
I still have a laminated bamboo shafted Chouinard/Frost Piolet ice axe. And one of the first tubular ice screws, the kind with a brazed cutting tip that makes a core smaller than the inside of the tube, so it falls out.
And my present wall hammer is an old Chouinard/Frost Alpine hammer (before they started putting teeth near the head), that I have cut down to make a mini-Yosemite hammer.
And I have a Chouinard "Marinabiner", a black anodized locking D with the reverse-screwgate (it's at the hinge side of the gate).
And I have one grey jumar. I dropped the other one at the top of the Excalibur about two months ago. But, no worries there: I simply used a cordelette as a prusik knot for the lower jug.
And I have some Crack-N-Ups, which have mostly historical value these days.
And as far as Good Old Tying In, I used a regular bowline around the waist for bivvies on my recent Excalibur trip. And even when harnesses were de riguer, in 1983, I used a swami. One time I forgot it, and tied in with a simple bowline and led the 5.9 Surprise, which, you guessed it, surprised the hell out my partner. He thought I was crazy.
Wow. Writing about all that old stuff brings back memories.
[ This Message was edited by: apollodorus on 2002-08-14 19:39 ]
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marcel
Aug 15, 2002, 3:08 AM
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Apollodorus, thanks much for sharing those memories! That was a great read! Hope the younger climbers are intrested in hearing us old farts reminisce, cause it sure is fun!
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jmlangford
Aug 15, 2002, 3:21 AM
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Here is my dad on the top of the Grand Teton in 1947 after doing a FA with William Cropper.
Like that Goldline rope?!
Here he is in 1958 at the Jenny Lake Ranger Station. Definitely the "Good Old Days"!
Click here for my dad's photo album of the "Good Old Days".
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jmlangford
Aug 15, 2002, 3:36 AM
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Just one more. This was my dad(on the right)and his partner heading up into the Bighorn Mountains of Wyoming in the 50's to do some exploring. Like the car?
BTW, I love this reminiscing!
[ This Message was edited by: jmlangford on 2002-08-14 20:37 ]
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climbsomething
Aug 15, 2002, 3:41 AM
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I am eating this stuff right up! I love it! Share more!!
But, uh, what's a Crack n Up??
*ducks swinging cane*
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marcel
Aug 15, 2002, 3:43 AM
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Jody, Loved the photos! I spent the summer of 69 and 71 in the Tetons so the photos brought back a few memories to me, especialy Symmetry Spires as that's one of my all time favorites, been up it several times.
Was your dad still around the Tetons when I was there? If so he might have been one of the guys my partners and I hid from while illegally camping for weeks at a time out of the designated camp sites.
Ugh, hope the statue of limitation has ran out!
Thanks!
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jmlangford
Aug 15, 2002, 4:04 AM
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Marcel, in the early sixties he went to Joshua Tree and in 1967 he was at Pinnacles National Monument. It was someone else you were hiding from! He does remember Chouinard and others hiding out in a big furnace near Jenny Lake. I forget what thing was for but he told me they swept the ashes away and set up camp. My dad was on your side though. He kept the big-wigs away from the hide-out when they came snooping around from headquarters! Have about 1000+ slides he took in his stay up there. Keep this thread going-it is fun. I probably should have moved it to 'History' but it is too far along now. Maybe another mod will do it.
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marcel
Aug 15, 2002, 4:08 AM
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climbsomething, I just had to give you a 10 since you are so understanding of us old geezers! Talking over the climb to me has always been one of the best things about climbing! Even if talking over is going on 30 years later.
Hey, here’s some more gear info for you. The best place to purchase climbing equipment in my early days, well at least around Denver was the Army Surplus stores. REI only had the Seattle store then and to us climbers, man traveling to the Seattle REI was like traveling to Mecca! Anyway, most of my gear came from the surplus stores. So, my first climbing boots as per the advice of an old time climber were Vietnam Combat boots. My first ice ax was made by Hope and had an ash (wood) handle. My first crampons were 10 points, and looked like they had been hand forged. Pitons also came from the surplus store and were made of very soft steel. So, you could get them back out of the rock about half the time. But, heck they were cheap, I think about 50 cents. Ugh, my first 10 or so carabiniere were steel and weighed slightly less than my 53 Food sadden when racked up with 20 pitons. I made my first set of nuts, by drilling the threads out of steel nuts and threading them with nylon cord or webbing. Yep, todays light, but strong gear is cool!
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jmlangford
Aug 15, 2002, 4:18 AM
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Marcel, you mean crampons like these?
And an iceaxe like this?
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marcel
Aug 15, 2002, 4:24 AM
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Yes, ice ax and crampons like those. Heck since I did my shopping at the surplus store, they might have been the same vintage. Even though your dads photos are 20 years before my climbing days.
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fishypete
Aug 15, 2002, 8:38 AM
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I LOVE this stuff!!!
One question - what was it like catching leader falls with body belays??? I just cant imagine...
Cheers, and THANKS!
Fishy.
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jansuw
Aug 15, 2002, 9:01 AM
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This is a cool thread!
I was in switzerland walking on a glacier in the summer and this old ugy (maybe 80) walked past us at about twice the pace and he looked just like that guy looking into the crevasse or whatever, wearing the exact same things. He had more of a beard but whatever. You guys should write an article series with pics and stuff!
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boesgaard
Aug 15, 2002, 10:18 AM
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This is very cool indeed! Its great that our "sport" has such an interesting history.
...oh - I would like too see some pictures the old gear used in th "ol times" - or maybe just in the sixties and seventies?
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krustyklimber
Aug 15, 2002, 10:23 AM
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Again wow! The thought of ending up in the history forum?!?
Quote:
I am eating this stuff right up! I love it! Share more!!
No Hillary we are eating up your attention, and you know it!
Jody, you sorta look like your Dad!
Love the pics!!! Keep 'em coming! (*note to self*... must have scanner)
Marcel, I am lucky enough to have grown up in site of Mecca, and even for a brief but glorious time worked at REI. So the very best was always available if I could just mow a couple of lawns, or sell a few more newspaper subscriptions and carry that many more newspapers in my bags!
The first place I ever slept outside without adult supervision was in the line for the REI garage sale (with 7 other boy scouts).
Pete, I gave a friend a hip belay from above and had him just weight the rope ... that is why we always adopted the policy, which I never have gotten over, "the leader must not fall"! It was part of his "duty" as leader.
Jan, are you sure that ol' guy was real, high up on the mountain were you? Perhaps he was a Mountain Spirit?
I too am really enjoying this thread!
Jeff
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