|
|
|
|
wild_climber
Jan 31, 2006, 8:51 PM
Post #1 of 20
(3231 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 31, 2006
Posts: 12
|
I've been indoor climbing for a few months and have hit a plateau. I can comfortably climb 5.8 (on top rope), but I just can't get into the 5.9/5.10 range. It is confusing because I consider myself in good shape, pretty strong and I climb at least once or twice a week at the same gym. Besides "climb more," does anybody have some advice. For example, should I stick to the 5.8 routes and become a master at them (i.e. do them with no difficulty) or should I just start working on 5.9's even if it means I don't do much climbing because I get stuck? I've started to think maybe I should stop climbing routes for a few weeks and just work on bouldering. I think my major problem is the smaller holds on the more difficult routes, I just can't get used to using only a little portion of my finger to hold myself into the wall.
Oh yeah, this is my first post here, so if there is some hazing ritual bring it on. It can't be any worse than climbing 5.8's with ten year old girls. :(
|
|
|
|
|
styndall
Jan 31, 2006, 9:12 PM
Post #2 of 20
(3231 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 29, 2002
Posts: 2741
|
It's hard to be at a real plateau when you've only been climbing for a few months.
I'd suggest climbing a bunch of 5.8s when you're in the gym. Then, as a cool down, pick one that feels good and is on the harder end for you and runs laps on it. Climb it, lower, take no rest, climb it, rinse and repeat a bunch of times. Once you can climb your route six or seven times in succession, you'll probably find 5.9 a bit less intimidating.
|
|
|
|
|
twiggy
Jan 31, 2006, 9:36 PM
Post #3 of 20
(3231 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 26, 2005
Posts: 17
|
I use a combination of methods to try to break in the new grades.
1) climb lower than your highest level (i.e. do a bunch of 5.7) do these in higher quantities
2) get on a top rope and climb higher 5.10, etc and just try your hardest, who cares if you hang dog, it makes going down a grade to 5.9 easier.
3) try climbing with guys that climb better than you and watch their technique.
4) Mike Reardon suggested to me once (forgot the actual name) the climbing triangle I think it's called? At the very top, you have the highest level climbs, and at the bottom, the lowest level climbs. In order to get to the top, most of your climbs need to be at the lowest level (resulting in doing a lower quantity of climbs the higher the level, so you would only be doing a few 5.8's for you). The theory behind training this way is that by the time you do like 20 different 5.7's, you have gained the technique to move up. This strategy helps me personally...worth a try.
BTW, one of the most important things to keep in mind in my opinion is remember to judge your climbing in longer periods of time (i.e. judge your progress by the month, not the day or week), and remember you're out there to have fun, so don't get down on yourself because that defeats the purpose.
|
|
|
|
|
bobruef
Jan 31, 2006, 9:46 PM
Post #4 of 20
(3231 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 22, 2005
Posts: 884
|
In reply to: 3) try climbing with guys that climb better than you and watch their technique.
this helped me tremendously. I'd watch a friend of mine coast up a 5.10 that I convulsed up, and realized that the climbs were not really that hard, I was just making them hard by utilizing poor movement, technique, etc...
|
|
|
|
|
kricir
Jan 31, 2006, 9:47 PM
Post #5 of 20
(3231 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 15, 2005
Posts: 434
|
What! you foul noob! Climbing is done outside on real rock, not in a gym! Go wallow on some more 8’s you insolent fool!
now that we have gotten that out of the way, welcome to RC.com
I Am also going through an awful plateau. I have been stuck at the 5.11 level for 2 years, indoors and out. It is very hard to break into a new grade level, I can only tell you what I have began to do to try to send my first 12.
(I must also add that I have only gotten back into climbing in the last year or so, and If I had kept climbing allot in high school I would be sending 12’s by now).
You must train, you say you consider yourself in good shape, but you can’t control little holds? This is a problem. Mastering 8’s will help this, get a patient belayer who will belay you doing laps on a 8 until you pump out and fall. (I usually do 6 or so laps on 10’s to pump out) You have to ask your self, could I be more pumped then I am and keep climbing? Don't give up when It become uncomfortable, give up when your body makes you. Do laps on the boulder, and hang from the hang board on the smallest holds you can for as long as you can. (I try to go for holds that I can barely hold on to for 30 sec) At the gym, or at home, do pull ups. I like to do 6 or 7, rest for 30 sec, then go again, for as many sets as I can, (around 7). You will be able to totally trash your arms in 10 min, I promise. Stretch your lower body every day. Increased flexibility helps allot. Do lots of sit-ups, remember that core strength is more important that limb strength. Besides a better body, you need a better mind to climb hard.
Practice good technique and climbing smoothly. Watch the best climbers in your gym, see how they almost always hang straight armed? See how they smoothly move and carefully place their feet on holds? Practice this, on easy routes if you have to. Learn to climb those 7’s and 8’s using almost no energy at all. Learning to read a sequence before climbing is very important. Plan out the moves before you do them, and try different sequences on the hard parts, find out which moves work and which ones don’t. If there is a 9 you are ready to try, watch someone else do it. See what moves they use to get past the hard parts, this is ok when your learning.
|
|
|
|
|
musicman1586
Jan 31, 2006, 9:54 PM
Post #6 of 20
(3231 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 26, 2005
Posts: 488
|
Based on something you said, the plateau you have reached is probably the transition from just power climbing to climbing with technique. Excuse me if I'm wrong, but the 5.8's that your talking about are probably jug hauls and don't require much real technique to get up, more strength based. When you get into more crimpy, small stuff, there's alot of new ground there. For one, you don't have those specific muscles built up. For two, you have to learn how to position your body and stay balanced into the wall and things along those lines. There's all sorts of things along those lines that can be playing a role here. As far as progressing, as someone else has said, just get up on the route and work hard, don't give up because you can't onsight it or because you fall a dozen times, it's new territory and a new learning experience, so don't be embarrassed to get up and not get anywhere on a route.
Also, more helpful advice, and I honestly do think it's good advice for anyone starting out, but get outside, get outta the gym as soon as you can.
|
|
|
|
|
kricir
Jan 31, 2006, 9:55 PM
Post #7 of 20
(3231 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 15, 2005
Posts: 434
|
double post, oops!
|
|
|
|
|
freeskicolorado
Jan 31, 2006, 10:00 PM
Post #8 of 20
(3231 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 19, 2004
Posts: 174
|
In reply to: I just can't get used to using only a little portion of my finger to hold myself into the wall.
From your description, I would suspect your difficulties in climbing 5.9 and up are primarily technique related rather than strength related, so I would second (or third) the suggestion to watch better climbers and observe their technique. Or better yet, if you see somebody climb a route that you're struggling with, ask them how they did it. Most climbers are friendly nad happy to help.
It's very common for new climbers to assume their difficulties are strength related rather than technique. Most likely, you don't need much, if any, more strength to do the routes (especially since you say you're in good physical shape to begin with), you just need to learn how to position your body so that the amount of energy you need to hang on to the holds and make the moves is minimized. For example, a henious sloper might become a very nice hold simply by getting your body down directly underneath the hold rather than out away from it. A slight change in foot positioning can work wonders as well!
Good luck!
|
|
|
|
|
cracklover
Jan 31, 2006, 10:09 PM
Post #9 of 20
(3231 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 10162
|
In reply to: I've been indoor climbing for a few months and have hit a plateau. I can comfortably climb 5.8 (on top rope), but I just can't get into the 5.9/5.10 range. It is confusing because I consider myself in good shape, pretty strong and I climb at least once or twice a week at the same gym.
I remember that condition very well. Being in good shape, strong, and climbing twice a week will not get you up 5.9/5.10. There are several things that you are lacking.
1 - Finger/Forearm strength. Unless you are a professional blacksmith, nothing will prepare you for the hand strength you need to get up 5.9/5.10.
Solution: Keep climbing. I know you didn't want to hear this. But finger/forearm strength simply takes time to develop beyond that first growth spurt.
2 - Technique. This is a big all-encompasing issue. It means everything. I remember when I was at that same plateau you're at. There was a single move in a climb I simply could not do. A traverse on poor feet requiring a hand-match. My mentor at the time would not tell me the solution, but he told me to think about it. I did. I memorized that hold, how it felt, the angles, where I could put one hand and fit the other one around it preparing for the match. I think I dreamt about that hold. And then the next week I cam back in - I had the solution in my head, and it worked. That was just a single key. Technique is a set of keys you use to unlock problems. That day, I earned one key. I'm sure I've used it hundreds of times since then. There are dozens of keys you need to acquire, and you need to be able to recognize which one fits which lock.
Solution: Think. Experiment. Learn. Be child-like. Have fun! Figure things out for yourself, rather than taking beta from those with more experience. At least most of the time. It'll make you climb smarter, which is really what technique is all about.
Cheers!
GO
|
|
|
|
|
bobruef
Jan 31, 2006, 10:14 PM
Post #10 of 20
(3231 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 22, 2005
Posts: 884
|
oh, and another thing...
what I'm finding as I progress is that my definition of what a 'positive' hold changes. What might feel like an unsecure hold, right now may feel solid as you progress. I just sent my first 5.10d the other day, and the entire climb, I kept making moves as best I could, but half expecting to peel off. I'd reach for a hold and think " no way this tiny nubbin is going to support weight", but it will.
pattray put it stupid simple out at sugarloaf in MD the other day. A bunch of people were struggling on a really crimpy 5.10. He was having trouble becuase the climb used some really small holds. pattray just said "don't put that much weight on them"
while this seems like a very small part of the solution, for me It was something that I'd been learning to apply, and continue to try and do. By using body position, tension, and propper movement, you can keep yourself from having to put all of your body weight on each hold, distributing it more efficiently between better ones.
Not every feature is there to support all of your weight, sometimes all you need them for is ballance.
Sorry for the ramble, I realize this is a very small part of progressing, but its been my latest revelation, and I thought it might help you.
|
|
|
|
|
yokese
Jan 31, 2006, 10:14 PM
Post #11 of 20
(3231 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 18, 2006
Posts: 672
|
In reply to: ..... hang from the hang board on the smallest holds you can for as long as you can. (I try to go for holds that I can barely hold on to for 30 sec) At the gym, or at home, do pull ups. I like to do 6 or 7, rest for 30 sec, then go again, for as many sets as I can, (around 7).... Do lots of sit-ups ....
Although in general those are good advises to jump from 5.11 to 5.12, I'd say that hang boards and pull ups are totally unnecesary to get into the 5.9s. In fact, they may be even counterproductive since it may be lead to the use of the "brute strenght" strategy.
In reply to: ... Stretch your lower body every day. Increased flexibility helps a lot... Practice good technique and climbing smoothly. Watch the best climbers in your gym... Learn to climb those 7’s and 8’s using almost no energy at all..
IMHO, this is more like it...
|
|
|
|
|
musicman1586
Jan 31, 2006, 10:25 PM
Post #12 of 20
(3231 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 26, 2005
Posts: 488
|
In reply to: In reply to: I just can't get used to using only a little portion of my finger to hold myself into the wall. From your description, I would suspect your difficulties in climbing 5.9 and up are primarily technique related rather than strength related, so I would second (or third) the suggestion to watch better climbers and observe their technique. Or better yet, if you see somebody climb a route that you're struggling with, ask them how they did it. Most climbers are friendly and happy to help. It's very common for new climbers to assume their difficulties are strength related rather than technique. Most likely, you don't need much, if any, more strength to do the routes (especially since you say you're in good physical shape to begin with), you just need to learn how to position your body so that the amount of energy you need to hang on to the holds and make the moves is minimized. For example, a heinous sloper might become a very nice hold simply by getting your body down directly underneath the hold rather than out away from it. A slight change in foot positioning can work wonders as well! Good luck!
Yeah, take it from me, strength is far far less important than technique. I have a terrible weight-to-strength ratio, I can't even campus easy way less then V0 boulder problems, but I'm working on breaking into the .11's right now, which is nothing special I know that, but I'm climbing those climbs with my little strength, so don't get caught up thinking that it's the quintessential defining characteristic. However, strength is important, don't get me wrong, there's plenty of times where things would be far easier for me if I had some real strength in my arms, but just showing that technique is very important, this coming from a guy who a couple of pull-ups shuts him down easily. :lol:
|
|
|
|
|
harmonydoc
Jan 31, 2006, 10:39 PM
Post #13 of 20
(3231 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 12, 2005
Posts: 193
|
In reply to: In reply to: I've been indoor climbing for a few months and have hit a plateau. I can comfortably climb 5.8 (on top rope), but I just can't get into the 5.9/5.10 range. It is confusing because I consider myself in good shape, pretty strong and I climb at least once or twice a week at the same gym. I remember that condition very well. Being in good shape, strong, and climbing twice a week will not get you up 5.9/5.10. There are several things that you are lacking. 1 - Finger/Forearm strength. Unless you are a professional blacksmith, nothing will prepare you for the hand strength you need to get up 5.9/5.10. Solution: Keep climbing. I know you didn't want to hear this. But finger/forearm strength simply takes time to develop beyond that first growth spurt. 2 - Technique. This is a big all-encompasing issue. It means everything. I remember when I was at that same plateau you're at. There was a single move in a climb I simply could not do. A traverse on poor feet requiring a hand-match. My mentor at the time would not tell me the solution, but he told me to think about it. I did. I memorized that hold, how it felt, the angles, where I could put one hand and fit the other one around it preparing for the match. I think I dreamt about that hold. And then the next week I cam back in - I had the solution in my head, and it worked. That was just a single key. Technique is a set of keys you use to unlock problems. That day, I earned one key. I'm sure I've used it hundreds of times since then. There are dozens of keys you need to acquire, and you need to be able to recognize which one fits which lock. Solution: Think. Experiment. Learn. Be child-like. Have fun! Figure things out for yourself, rather than taking beta from those with more experience. At least most of the time. It'll make you climb smarter, which is really what technique is all about. Cheers! GO
Totally agree with this. I'm only slightly less NOOB than you (about 7 months climbing) and I am just getting comfortable on 5.9s and low 5.10s. My forearms have gotten a lot stronger, and I am figuring out how to shift my weight around to take maximum advantage of available holds. To me the difference between 5.8 and 5.9 (aside from size of holds) is that 5.9 moves often cover a greater distance. I've found that if I pay more attention to my feet and body position and "just stand up" that the 5.9s work for me. In fact, after climbing 5.9s, the 5.8s feel "busy", like there are more hands/feet than there need to be.
|
|
|
|
|
climbaddic
Jan 31, 2006, 10:54 PM
Post #14 of 20
(3231 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 4, 2003
Posts: 108
|
In reply to: I consider myself in good shape, pretty strong and I climb at least once or twice a week :(
If you can do say about 5 pull ups and can't climb 5.9 or 5.10ish route, your problem isn't the strength plateau. You probably have a problem with footwork. Try climbing thin slab and watch other good climbers use their feet.
|
|
|
|
|
scotchie
Feb 1, 2006, 12:19 AM
Post #15 of 20
(3231 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 31, 2004
Posts: 261
|
In reply to: I think my major problem is the smaller holds on the more difficult routes, I just can't get used to using only a little portion of my finger to hold myself into the wall.
The trick is to use body positioning so that you don't have to rely on the handholds so much.
As has already been mentioned, the best way to learn is to partner up with someone who is pulling a grade or two harder than you.
You can also try learning by climbing slab. Pick a really easy route (5.5 or so), and try to climb it without putting your hands on any of the holds. Just use your sense of balance to shift your bodyweigth from foot to foot as you climb up, leaning your hands against the flat wall. If this is too hard, you can use just one finger on each hold.
Use a book or a partner to learn the basic techniques of climbing such as layback, stemming, drop knee, etc.
If your gym has a bouldering area that lets you do bouldering traverses (as opposed to overhung pumpy routes), then this can also help you improve your balance and footwork.
No need to worry about grip strength. If you climb regularly, then it will improve naturally over time.
Have fun and good luck!
|
|
|
|
|
dudemanbu
Feb 1, 2006, 4:30 AM
Post #17 of 20
(3231 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 3, 2005
Posts: 941
|
The best advice i can give is to work on making your feet sticky and quiet, and to spend as much time as possible with straight arms to the holds... it'll keep the pumpout at bay.
|
|
|
|
|
wild_climber
Feb 1, 2006, 5:20 AM
Post #18 of 20
(3231 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 31, 2006
Posts: 12
|
Oh my god guys, thanks for all the responses. I had no idea I'd get this much help. To answer a few questions, I can do about 12-15 pull-ups, so I don't think back strength is limiting me. My forearms do pump out pretty quick, I think I over-grip a lot of the time. I climb with someone who is a little better than me (he is about a 5.10 climber). I would love to climb outside, but I live in the North and winter sucks. I plan to get outside in the spring. I try to climb with my legs and keep my arm straight, but I should probably work on my footwork, I saw another post on this matter so I'll take a look at it. Well, thanks again to everyone for all the help. Keep posting if you have any other ideas, I'm always willing to try new things.
|
|
|
|
|
fukenkarz
Feb 5, 2006, 1:45 AM
Post #19 of 20
(3231 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 28, 2005
Posts: 17
|
I did not bother to read all the replies but I had the same issue that I have just surpassed a couple weeks ago.
I had been climbing at indoor gyms for three months and could do just about any 10- with little to no difficulty. I was stuck at 10- but I don't think it was just my lousy technique holding me back. 10- was my comfort level and the 10+'s were very difficult and frustrating so I stayed away from them. I climbed what I was comfortable with and thus I was not improving my techique. A complete lack of ambition on my part.
After an entire month on the 10-'s I decided to force myself onto 10+'s. Now, after only two weeks I can complete many of the +'s. Some with ease. Once I hit the comfort level that I have with the -'s I'm moving up to 11 ... and so on. If you have the determination you can learn to climb more difficult walls ... at least that is what I am telling myself. I do not accept that some people are just not able to physically climb past a certain skill level. You must always be able to improve, just depends on how bad you want it.
Your comfort zone is the 8's? Then stop climbing them and start on the 9's and do nothing less each time you go out. You will learn. If I'm having an-off night (which I do occasionally) I will still not climb anything under a 10. Just try setting goals and stick to them no matter what.
Some of the experienced climbers (which I am not) may say this is shitty advice but it worked for me, might for you aswell.
|
|
|
|
|
csgambill
Feb 5, 2006, 2:11 AM
Post #20 of 20
(3231 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 3, 2004
Posts: 607
|
Stop looking at teh route r(7+1)ings u fukin nØØb. one day u'll climb a route and say to your belayer, "damn beeahch that was as ez as your mom, was that another 5.8." and he'll drop you, stomp your nutz, then take a dump on your chest and say, "u shit eating mrs. robinson fucker that was a five niner. Now ur the king."
|
|
|
|
|
|
