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ignignot
Feb 3, 2006, 3:34 PM
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I've been climbing for a year and a half, going about once a week. I knew that wasn't enough to produce any real gains in climbing ability, but I just liked going and found the climbing to give great stress relief in my life. Also I think it has had a positive effect on my attitude... but to get to the point, I can only consistently climb a 5.9.
The obvious answer is to go to the climbing gym more, which I started doing this week. Right now I'm thinking of going 4 or 5 times a week, with 1 day of routes. The rest of the week I've been climbing 4 bouldering problems that I can always complete (v0 or v1) and then downclimbing them, take a very short break, and then repeat. After doing about 16 climbs, I just go climb some other stuff that I think is interesting and then do some frenchies and L hangs.
My problem has always been poor stamina, as I've been able to send a few V-3's (maybe they were more like V-2's but still). Any thoughts as to how I should break up the week? Is it ok to do light bouldering for 4 days in a row with no rests? Are there any other exercises that I should consider? I've heard that I should try drinking a protein shake after climbing. Is that important?
Thanks
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climbsomething
Feb 3, 2006, 3:41 PM
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You're overtraining. A new climber who's only done weekly moderate climbing for a year isn't building off a whole lot, not enough to support this drastic submersion.
Slow down.
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vegastradguy
Feb 3, 2006, 3:43 PM
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4-5 days could be excessive. 3-4 is probably best. its not so good to do all the days in a row- you need to give your muscles time to heal and grow.
myself, i don't have any specific regimen, but i always warm up with a traverse of the gym (roughly 350'). some days (endurance days), i'll lap the gym at least 8 times. i've found that this, more than anything, seems to keep my strength at an optimal level for my climbing ability (currently .10ish trad, .11ish sport).
to see immediate gains, the increased gym time is all you need. for long-term gains, you may want to check out rockprodigy's article- pretty inspiring and some great ideas in there- in fact, i'm looking at starting to use some of it to move to the next level myself.
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baalzimon
Feb 3, 2006, 3:58 PM
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Everyone's different, but here's what works for me:
Weekend - Go climbing outside!! Routes of any kind. crimpy, overhanging, craks, slab. it will work your muscles in ways that a gym never could.
two days rest
Wednesday - go to the gym and climb until you can't hold on any more, then climb some more. be careful though, not too many crimpy things, save your tendons.
two days rest.
Repeat.
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granite_grrl
Feb 3, 2006, 4:08 PM
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I'd say the best thing that you could do would be to increase your time climbing. On that note, don't go from one day of climbing to 4 or 5, go maybe 3 days a week. If you make the most out of your gym sessions then you should certainly not climb multiple days in a row (this is training remember, you've gotta give recovery time).
Last winter I was at the gym 4 days a week, 2 days on, 1 off, 2 on, 2 off. Sounds good, but I got bored and socialized more than climbed, and in reality I probably only got 2 (if I was lucky) good days of climbing in a week.
Finally, examine your weakness better and attack them. Ask other people what they think your weakness could be to better pinpoint them. I figured out that while strength was a limiting factor while I climbed overhangs, I also had technique issues. I didn't really realize the technique problems till last fall though, always blamed strength.
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wild_climber
Feb 3, 2006, 4:16 PM
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I'm not a better climber than you, so I can't really tell you much about climbing technique per se. However, I have been a weight lifter for over 5 years (probably why I suck at climbing), so I know a little about muscle recovery and the like. I think the other posts are correct, you are probably doing a little too much at 4-5 times a week. If you work any body part that much, you are asking for injuries from over-use and imbalance. If I were you (and what I do), is climb 3 times a week and do general exercise workouts (e.g. cardio and opposing muscle group training) the other days of the week that you hit the gym. That way you give your climbing muscles time to recover properly, and you balance them out by strengthening the opposing muscles. And cardio is good for endurance, weight control and overall health. As for protein, must weight lifters take a lot of protein within 1 hour of lifting, because that's when the muscles are most able to use the protein and make it into muscle mass. You probably don't want to bulk up too much, but still want to see strength gains. So I suggest a little protein after working out, with some carbs too. Try for maybe 8-15 grams of protein (about the amount in a glass of milk)depending on your weight and gender. Stay away from those 45 gram protein drinks, unless you want to look like a freak. I know, because I am.
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jammer
Feb 3, 2006, 4:18 PM
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One suggestion I would give is to start climbing on new routes/problems after you stretch and warm up. Don't continue to work on problems that you have already climbed. Their sequences are already built in your memory. You need to reach out and try the 5.10's/V4's when fresh. If the sequence seem hard, that's good! Break the down to managable chunks, do them, then tie it all togeather.
Rest every other day to give your muscels a chance to heal and grow. These rest days are good for stretching/yoga.
Eat healthy and get enough sleep. What you put into your body is what you'lll get out of it.
I was at 5.9 for two years. It did suck!
edited to add that my barrier was my own head. I thought I would fall and I did. I now visualize my climbs prior to climbing. I can see myself at the top; therefore, I top out!
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harmonydoc
Feb 3, 2006, 4:19 PM
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I've been climbing for about 7 months (mostly in the gym) about 3X a week, with 1-2 rest days in between. I've been very happy with my progress on this schedule. I know my weaknesses (forearm endurance, overhangs, getting out of sequence and wasting energy) and my strengths (slab, stemmy climbs).
Try not to label yourself, though. I can't consistently climb every 5.9 in my gym (still have trouble with that sustained overhang) but I can consistently climb less than vertical to vertical .10s. Keep experimenting, figure out your weak areas, focus on technique. I feel like lack of technique holds me back more than lack of strength at this point - if I could climb more efficiently and not waste energy figuring out the optimal position/sequence I'm sure it would bump me up a level.
Oh yeah, and get outside whenever you can! I think I actually do better outside 'cause I don't have to worry about stepping on the wrong color taped hold ...
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mheyman
Feb 3, 2006, 4:21 PM
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I agree with vegastradguy and climbsmoething. Just be patient. Climbing more than once a week should certainly speed up the process, but climbing ore difficult routes than 5.9 at a gym is achievable on one one gym day a week if you do other exercise to stay in shape.
I live pretty far from any gym, and I am happy if if can get to one every week on average...
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mheyman
Feb 3, 2006, 4:22 PM
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I agree with vegastradguy and climbsmoething. Just be patient. Climbing more than once a week should certainly speed up the process, but climbing significantly more difficult routes than 5.9 at a gym is achievable on one one gym day a week if you do other exercise to stay in shape.
I live pretty far from any gym, and I am happy if if can get to one every week on average...
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bobruef
Feb 3, 2006, 4:22 PM
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When breaking into the 5.10s, I found that if the move seemed insanely difficult, It was probably because I was doing it wrong. Back off, slow down and sequence out your climbing. Now I'm finding that attacking climbs with sheer will and fury doesn't do me as much good as when I relax, and become more methodical and focused.
Hope that helps!
-Bob
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iceisnice
Feb 3, 2006, 7:30 PM
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a couple of things....are you talking about sport climbing or trad. if sport climbing...blah, blah, blah. if you are talking about trad.....TAKE IT EASY! christ man, you've only been climbing a year. relax. progress slowing through the grades. take your time. don't be in such a hurry or you'll be the next person in Accidents in North American Mountaineering. don't worry about the grades...hell.....don't worry about the numbers AT ALL! right now you should be more concerned with climbing safely (i mean actually learning self rescue techniques, how to place gear, etc). the numbers don't mean shit.......especially when you've just decked.
also, if you are having problems with stamina at 5.9, it is technique, not fitness. even most 10's are more about technique. climbing all the time means little if you are not actually working on technique. just running up a bunch of climbs and spending MORE time climbing means nothing. its quality, not quantity.
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iamthewallress
Feb 3, 2006, 7:38 PM
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I'm shocked that you're doing V3's but having a hard time getting past 5.9. Maybe if climbing harder on the routes is your goal, you should shift your training away from the boulders a bit and spend more time on the routes? The types of moves that you do on one vs. the other (in my experience at the gym anyway) are often quite different with the boulders favoring really tricky individual moves and the routes stressing efficient movement and resting more.
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bobruef
Feb 3, 2006, 7:42 PM
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Yeah, if you're anything like me, I try and climb from rest to rest (My weak arms don't last long). find the rests and milk-em!
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duppyc
Feb 3, 2006, 8:10 PM
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5.9's are fun, just keep trying the 5.10's, get pumped, get thrown, look foolish, but, just keep trying, they'll come to you. I have been climbing for about the same amount of time as you. I was also stuck on 5.9 for awhile, it just takes persistence, but, don't over do the climbing. Lose weight, do some cardio, make it a whole package and your climbing grades will increase.
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alpinismo_flujo
Feb 3, 2006, 9:12 PM
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I read the thread and everyone offers great advice. One more thing I would like to add is to read up on fitness.
Try Climbing: Training for Peak Performance by Clyde Soles.
Great book that really focuses on what you need to do to become fit!
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snakeman
Feb 3, 2006, 9:58 PM
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try steroids :evil:
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sul-pont
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Feb 7, 2006, 6:15 PM
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You've gotten some good advice here and I'd like to amplify Jammer's comment concerning your mental attitude and approach.
If you are climbing V2's and the occasional V3, then you have all the moves to climb 5.10's and 5.11's. So, either you head is playing games with you or the rating system where you climb is seriously troubled.
So, you've got to figure out the problem. Are you leading these 5.9 climbs? If so, sport or trad? Does fear of climbing above your protection scare you and inhibit your performance? If not, are there other fears of being in an exposed/intimidating environment, or maybe you don't want to be embarrased if you fall? Maybe all of the above? Much has been written about these subjects, most extensively by Arno Ilgner in "The Rock Warrior's Way." If any of this sounds familiar, check out the literature.
I'm a 5.10 climber getting into 5.11, and therefore no expert. I remember that the transition from 5.9 to 5.10 was tough, and bouldering really helped me along. However, it seems like your reverse trajectory is the result of some unidentified factors. I'm confident that finding out what those are will be the key to your progress.
To reiterate further, take a day off between difficult climbing sessions, especially if you are doing a lot of bouldering. Your elbows will thank you. As for a recovery drink, you want that to be mostly carbs, about a 4-1 ratio of carbs to protein. Though there is some debate, most agree that the distribution of carbs should be about .45 to .675 per pound of body weight. This will help your glycogen-depleted muscles recover more quickly but it is NOT a substitute for a rest day.
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piton
Feb 7, 2006, 6:45 PM
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listen to snakeman he solos 5.12+ 5.13-
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steve_o
Feb 7, 2006, 8:47 PM
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Hi,
Based on the responses, I'd like to concur that 4-5 days of climbing is a little too much. You need to take a rest day (or two) to let your body rebuild its muscles and regain strength. Usually 3-4 days a week (outside or inside) is a good regiment to follow.
I found that boulder really took my climbing to the next level. If you are able to do some V3-, you certainly can reach 5.10. It might be a matter of stamina. Practice choosing rest stops during climbs to shake out your arms. Although it'll take longer to finish the route, you'll find you feel less pumped which will give you the energy to finish off the climbs.
Hope that helps.
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musicman1586
Feb 7, 2006, 9:26 PM
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Following along the lines of what some others have said, your problem may not be strength, it may be technique. If your getting pumped out trying relying more on your feet then your arms. People all too often try to haul themselves up the wall, but it's really more like your walking your way up. I've broken into the .10's and I have no upper body strength at all, you make me do 5 pull-ups and I'm spent :lol: Learn to trust in your feet not your arms. Also another thing about getting pumped out is that when your hanging, don't hang with your arms bent, hang by your skeleton (in other words, hang with your arms straight to put the weight on bone instead of bent where your muscle is holding you up). Just random comments, they might apply, they might not.
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20ftwhipper
Feb 7, 2006, 10:15 PM
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Musicman is right, concentrate on using your legs, try not to let them just hang at any point 'cause that is just dead weight, and try climbing many different routes inside and out and at various gyms. Experience is key 5.10 and up.
Also, have you tried the after-workout drink known as "beer"? I find after a long day climbing, nothing hits the spot like it, and it beats the crap out of protein shakes. Fer shizzle.
that and get one of those hip beanie knit caps that all the good folks wear, that and real expensive getup. Also, tape your hands all up and gripe as much as possible about some old debilitating injury that is flaring up. That will keep the masses off your back.
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boardline22
Feb 7, 2006, 10:54 PM
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I've been climbing a year to this date and last year I weighed about 198 pounds, now I weigh 160pounds, some days even less. The first time I went to a big gym I had a hard time climbing a 5.6. A month ago I was finally able to climb 5.9 and today I almost got a 5.10. It was at the end of the session and I figure why not give it a try. I belayed my friend on it and he couldn't get it, so I rope up and not like of much and just climb. I get over the part my friend got stuck on, I was suprised, kept climbing and went for a hold doing a dynamic move and I lost a smear I had. I got lowered back down about 3/4 of the way up and I get to the part and I aced it. I have yet to do it from the ground up, but I will this weekend.
Moral: If you try you will get it. You also should clear your mind of the grade and just climb and do what feels natural.
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g-funk
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Feb 7, 2006, 10:56 PM
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All right, I'll be the guy to go against the grain and say that 4-5 days per week isn't too much. I might be totally wrong, and I'm not expert, but this is the experience that I had.
I was in the same boat about 2 years ago when I started climbing (but I was a little farther downstream). I had only climbed a couple of 5.9 routes, and could only boulder V0-V1. I had been climbing for about 4 months, and doing it roughly once per week.
One day a guy that worked at the gym where I climb asked if I wanted to take the 3 month climbing class that he was teaching. His name was Charlie Boas and this was at Granite Arch near Sacramento, CA. He took pretty detailed surveys of what we were climbing, and built an individualized training regimen for each participant. Basically I spent 1 month climbing 5.8 and less 4-5 times per week with lots of traversing, followed by 1 month of hard bouldering 2-3 times per week followed by 1 month of climbing 3-4 times per week above our previous skill level specifically working 1 or 2 project routes.
During the first month I would climb laps (often up and down) and do lots of traversing. Eventually I worked up to doing 40+ laps on easier routes, and spending 30 minutes or more traversing without touching the ground.
When I started the whole program, I had only climbed a couple of 5.9 routes. After the two months of training, I picked a project that was rated 5.11a which I planned to work for a couple of weeks. This was the first route above 5.8 that I had been on for over two months, and was the first route above 5.9 that I had ever been on! I actually flashed it which totally blew me away. I ended up projecting a 5.13 route which I never completed, but I did send a 5.12b and a 5.12c route after lots of practice and study of other climbers on the same routes. Since that time, I have started climbing outside which has been spectacular, but I have lost motivation to climb inside much. Consequently I'm climbing once per week, or every other week. I now consistenly top rope in the 5.10 range, but rarely get above that. I don't think that I have ever bouldered above V3, even during the height of my training regimen. I might not be remembering a stray V4, but I think that V3 is my hardest bouldering route.
Anyway, that was what helped me the most. The hardest part about the program is getting a partner that wants to belay 35 laps of 5.8 routes. It worked out well when there were so many of us doing the same routine together. Good luck, and have fun.
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ignignot
Feb 8, 2006, 7:25 PM
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Thanks for the all the advice that has been given. I'm going to seriously take all of it into consideration to determine how to approach my training. Even though I haven't responded until now I have been reading what people said.
I've been ramping up slowly, last week I climbed twice, this week will be three times, and then next week 4. I'm going to see how Sunday, Monday, Wednesday, and Thursday climbing treats me before trying for 5. I may just stick to 4 and then depending on how I feel get to 5 occasionally.
Right now I've been focusing on two things: first my stamina, which definitely needs to improve, but also the speed at which I'm climbing. I have noticed that I am definitely slower than other climbers even on climbs that I know very well. I think this is best solved by doing the same climbs again and again and gradually doing them faster, which should help whatever mostly mental roadblock I have in place concerning my speed.
Because of my slow climbing rate I do tend to get pumped because I'm just holding on for so long.
I think that a large portion of my problem is mental - for example, on Monday this week someone said something to try to help me out with the start of one of the routes I had failed at, but it just completely demoralized me. ("Hey just do it like this, its really easy") My climbing really suffered for the rest of the day, which I cut short.
But I figure the best solution is more climbing, for both the mental and physical barriers.
It is possible that the bouldering problems were actually easier than their rating. More recently the gym has eliminated most bouldering grades and I've just been climbing based on feel so I don't know how I'm doing on them, but that's fine. They may have gotten rid of the grades because it wasn't the right rating, or because they switched all the routes and just haven't gotten around to rating them yet. In any case I can definitely climb V-1's and can usually onsight them so take from that what you will.
I've just started using moisturizer on my hands after climbing as well. Hopefully that will prevent any flappers so I won't have to cut a day or two's training short. I wouldn't mind the pain but I'd rather not bleed on holds that other people will be using. :(
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