|
epic_ed
Moderator
Nov 17, 2005, 6:24 PM
Post #476 of 568
(66227 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 17, 2002
Posts: 4718
|
Good point. I absolutely agree that we should only visit the areas currently open to access. I'm planning to head out there with Curt, who has been there with John, so I assume he will know the correct way to approach and where to climb.
Ed
|
|
|
|
|
azstickbow
Nov 17, 2005, 10:41 PM
Post #477 of 568
(66227 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 27, 2004
Posts: 44
|
You ought to just ask Sherman for a tour. curt knows how to get ahold of him.
|
|
|
|
|
areyoumydude
Nov 18, 2005, 9:26 AM
Post #478 of 568
(66227 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 27, 2003
Posts: 1442
|
In reply to: There is no contradiction between Curt's statment and the comments by the AF. I'm not sure why you're looking to split hairs about this issue. You could take the weekend and go back there to do some development, but short of a serious off road vehicle, you need a helicopter to get back in there.Ed
The contradiction is driving two hours to the dirt road and then two more hours as you claim on an awful 4x4 road crossing private land is not an "easy" day trip for local climbers.
I am not the only one who thinks that there is misinformation being put out there. I have talked with local climbers that are pretty pissed off by the whole thing.
If you want to blindly follow the propaganda so be it, but YOU should step down as a moderater on this one. It is obviously a conflict of intrest.
|
|
|
|
|
epic_ed
Moderator
Nov 18, 2005, 9:39 AM
Post #479 of 568
(66227 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 17, 2002
Posts: 4718
|
I haven't moderated anything. I'm simply pointing out that Curt's statement about the approach and the AF's statement hardly represent a discrepancy, let a lone misinformation. Again -- I'm not sure who you are trying to discredit, but it seems like you have a bone to pick with one of them. Maybe both. But if you're complaining about misinformation, you might want to have some better ammo than this, bro.
Ed
|
|
|
|
|
rradjc
Nov 18, 2005, 9:53 AM
Post #480 of 568
(66227 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 15, 2002
Posts: 64
|
I don't know about most people, but a couple of hrs driving then a couple of hrs on a 4wd for climbing is a day trip with the added fun of 4 wheeling. Heck, that seems almost standard for most climbing I've done around Az.
I used to live there and now I'm gone so I'm not anywhere as in touch with the locals as I once was. I have been and still am a little confused about the access to Tamo right now as I was told once it was not open to general traffic and wouldn't be until land access was worked out, specifically concerning the private land referred to.
Having followed this pretty closely, I also fail to see the misinformation from Curt and/or the Access Fund. I disagree completely with the RCC land swaps and the precendent it sets for similar areas but I also that appreciate the outcome could have been much worse than where it is now.
|
|
|
|
|
freakystyley
Dec 28, 2005, 7:01 PM
Post #481 of 568
(66227 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 19, 2003
Posts: 151
|
If access to Tamo is so sensitive, why then publish/host a webpage providing a detailed .pdf guide and all the fluff? To prove the area is real obviously, but beyond that I see a carrot dangling on a string for the locals to be tempted by. People WILL visit the area (and most likely have) before any legislation is finalized. The same happens in every climbing state, a new crag is developed on sensitive land, guides are put out along with the warnings of not to visit the new secret sensitive crag or else. smoke and mirrors.
|
|
|
|
|
areyoumydude
Dec 29, 2005, 9:15 AM
Post #482 of 568
(66227 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 27, 2003
Posts: 1442
|
In reply to: If access to Tamo is so sensitive, why then publish/host a webpage providing a detailed .pdf guide and all the fluff? To prove the area is real obviously, but beyond that I see a carrot dangling on a string for the locals to be tempted by. People WILL visit the area (and most likely have) before any legislation is finalized. The same happens in every climbing state, a new crag is developed on sensitive land, guides are put out along with the warnings of not to visit the new secret sensitive crag or else. smoke and mirrors.
I think the reason Verm put the Guide book out was so people could see what kind of climbing area they are going to get in exchange for Oak Flats.
|
|
|
|
|
freakystyley
Dec 29, 2005, 11:03 AM
Post #483 of 568
(66227 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 19, 2003
Posts: 151
|
I understand that, as stated.
I was just addressing the posts about going to see the place now before anything is officially in ink. By posting the guide now, he is without a doubt tempting a great many climbers to go see the area first hand. Instead of word of mouth spreading the area beta through the local community, he has worldwide advertising. you cannot tell me people will stay away - and with the notion that access is still problematic - these early birds may ripple the water. I believe Verm has inadvertently (or intentionally) invited people to visit the area. It is obvious a select few have access and they have freinds who have friends, etc. I am just saying there is more to it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
crimpandgo
Mar 30, 2006, 7:56 AM
Post #485 of 568
(66227 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 15, 2004
Posts: 1005
|
So, where is this "state park" for rock climbers gonna be?
|
|
|
|
|
lindajft
Mar 30, 2006, 8:05 AM
Post #486 of 568
(66227 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 13, 2005
Posts: 37
|
I'm sure they're talking about Tamo.
|
|
|
|
|
lindajft
Mar 30, 2006, 8:10 AM
Post #487 of 568
(66227 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 13, 2005
Posts: 37
|
I'm sure they're talking about Tamo.
|
|
|
|
|
lindajft
Mar 30, 2006, 5:54 PM
Post #488 of 568
(66227 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 13, 2005
Posts: 37
|
how is tamo coming along?
I notice you're a Gilbertian also. Hi there.
|
|
|
|
|
rockclimber057
Apr 1, 2006, 6:36 PM
Post #489 of 568
(66227 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 13, 2004
Posts: 28
|
The local news had a quickie on the land swap yesterday. They (Channel 3) should have a small follow up report on Monday April 3rd at 5p.m. about the new "climbing park". Sorry I only saw the tail end of the first report and even then my baby was pushing buttons on the t.v. :nono:
dave
|
|
|
|
|
azstickbow
Apr 2, 2006, 6:55 PM
Post #490 of 568
(66227 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 27, 2004
Posts: 44
|
Things are going great! I was there helping out for the TV and AZ Rep. tour this week and managed to get in about 6 routes. There was supposed to be a story in the paper today but it got bumped but keep your eyes open.
The more I climb there the more I love it. It takes a little while to figure out the rock. It isn't just pocket pulling or even edging almost every route is a mix of many different styles. The first impression of the rock from afar looks pretty average but once you get on it it is amazing how cool the routes are and how great the rock is. This week was the first time I had seen some of the new ares and I was impressed it really feels like a climbing area. I hadn't been there in a year and so much more has been discovered and developed since then. The guide on climbtamo.com is now only about 1/2 of the routes there.
The work season is winding down for Sherman and Co. since it will be hot soon. The snakes and gila monsters are out now too. Sherman is off to get double hip replacement surgery this summer but he plans to be back in the fall pushing this thing along. His hips have been getting worse for years but this job and all the hiking required has pushed them over the edge. The bummer is he won't be able to boulder anymore. Jumping off boulders with metal hips leads to broken femurs!
|
|
|
|
|
areyoumydude
Apr 2, 2006, 9:55 PM
Post #491 of 568
(66227 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 27, 2003
Posts: 1442
|
Yea, the rock there is great. I was lucky enough to put up a few routes with those guys this winter and the bouldering is some of the best I've done. Can't wait to get back there next season.
|
|
|
|
|
curt
Apr 2, 2006, 10:01 PM
Post #492 of 568
(66227 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 26, 2002
Posts: 15575
|
In reply to: Yea, the rock there is great. I was lucky enough to put up a few routes with those guys this winter and the bouldering is some of the best I've done. Can't wait to get back there next season.
Are you on the payroll too?
Curt
|
|
|
|
|
areyoumydude
Apr 2, 2006, 10:08 PM
Post #493 of 568
(66227 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 27, 2003
Posts: 1442
|
In reply to: In reply to: Yea, the rock there is great. I was lucky enough to put up a few routes with those guys this winter and the bouldering is some of the best I've done. Can't wait to get back there next season. Are you on the payroll too? Curt
No, just lucky enough to get to check it out.
|
|
|
|
|
curt
Apr 2, 2006, 10:36 PM
Post #494 of 568
(66227 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 26, 2002
Posts: 15575
|
In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: Yea, the rock there is great. I was lucky enough to put up a few routes with those guys this winter and the bouldering is some of the best I've done. Can't wait to get back there next season. Are you on the payroll too? Curt No, just lucky enough to get to check it out.
Just curious--I think it's a great place, myself. By the way, the Access Fund and Friends of Queen Creek fully endorse the formation of the new climbing park at Tamo.
Curt
|
|
|
|
|
lindajft
Apr 3, 2006, 12:14 PM
Post #495 of 568
(66227 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 13, 2005
Posts: 37
|
Are you planning on going out there soon during this 'spring?' (now)
I'd like to tag along
Linda
|
|
|
|
|
lindajft
Apr 3, 2006, 12:30 PM
Post #496 of 568
(66296 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 13, 2005
Posts: 37
|
*** I found this on AZ Republic News ***** today
Efforts at 'Tamo' rock-climbing park under way
Robbie Sherwood
The Arizona Republic
Apr. 3, 2006 12:00 AM
Echoed shouts of "Go Timy!" and "Nice climb!" can be heard from far below the quartzite crag.
A minute later, a forearm with ripples like a bridge cable emerges from below the cliff face and 36-year-old professional rock climber Timy Fairfield pulls his otherwise tiny frame up and over the side. The grin on his face reveals that the challenge was worthy of his skills.
In a few years, if state and federal lawmakers act according to script, this spot beneath Tam O'Shanter Peak near Kearny, southeast of Phoenix, will likely become a world-class rock-climbing haven and a new state park with international marketing potential that rivals Kartchner Caverns near Benson.
advertisement
But for now, Fairfield is one of only a handful of human beings to ever touch these rugged cliffs. And he says it's as good as any climbing he has found in Europe and Asia, where sponsors pay the Albuquerque native to do his thing.
"I love the view, and this is the most solid non-granite climbing rock I've seen in North America," said Fairfield.
Solid is good. When climbers drill the bolts that hold their potentially lifesaving ropes to the side of the cliffs, they like them to stay there.
The hard rock and the nearly limitless rope climbs offered by the 800-acre Tam O'Shanter area impressed John Sherman, a geologist and rock-climbing guru hired to find a park site two years ago.
"One of the great things we've got at 'Tamo' is the incredible weather here in winter," said Sherman, 43. "Not too many places in the U.S. are that well suited for climbing in the winter."
The story behind this curiously named peak (so called because it resembles a Scottish cap) begins with the company that hired Smith. British-owned Resolution Copper is gearing up to build a massive new mine in Superior, about 20 miles northwest of the new park site. In about five years, the new mine will force the closure of the Oak Flat campground, a popular rock-climbing area.
To help solve a burgeoning public-relations problem, Resolution turned Sherman loose in August 2004 to find a replacement park. After scouring the area off and on for four months and burning out a $200 pair of hiking shoes, Sherman made his way to "Tamo" and his search was over.
Sherman spotted a large group of javelina, which are piglike animals, on one of his first trips to scale the cliffs. So, many of the climbs he has staked out have a pork-flavored names like "When Pigs Fly," "Mmm, Bacon" and "L'il Smokies."
Turning the area into a state park will require a complicated set of federal land swaps with private owners that include the nearby Asarco copper mine. Those proposals are working their way through Congress with Sens. Jon Kyl and John McCain as sponsors. Resolution plans to spend $500,000 to help build a decent road to the nearly inaccessible peak.
A bill to designate a new state park has worked its way through the state Senate but must still clear the House Appropriations Committee. Senate Bill 1550 is scheduled for an Appropriations hearing Wednesday.
There is an air of excitement surrounding the new park and not just from climbers. Rock-climbing groups such as the Access Fund have gone from protesting the loss of Oak Flat to writing letters to Gov. Janet Napolitano in support of the Tam O'Shanter project.
But Kearny Town Manager Gary Eide is just as enthusiastic about the park's potential to broaden his tiny mining community's economy.
"The visitors that will come through in the large numbers anticipated will certainly make an impact on the type of businesses that will expand here and new ones that will pop up," Eide said.
State Parks Director Ken Travous said the state will eventually have to spend about $6 million to develop the park but not this year and not all in one year. And it's money he predicts will be easily made back from visitor fees.
That said, Tam O'Shanter will likely not appeal to the picnic crowd.
Most of the things that grow on the mountain, including chollas, prickly pears and saguaros, are designed to injure anything that touches them. The area is home to Gila monsters, rattlesnakes, scorpions, Africanized bees, red ants and mountain lions.
But these are small impediments for people who enjoy dangling off cliff faces.
"I just feel really good when I climb, like nothing fazes me," said the aptly named Sierra Blair-Coyle, 12, an accomplished climber from Scottsdale who was getting her first tour of Tam O'Shanter.
And there are more of those people like Blair-Coyle than you would think.
"We think combined over 100,000 people a year will come here," Travous said. "Climbing is a very up-and-coming sport. You don't have to be big or tall. And there is wonderful hiking potential here as well."
It's not safe for the public to try and get there now, said Travous, who toured the area this week on a helicopter. Travous preached patience, saying it could take another five years for the park to come online.
"Just like with Kartchner Caverns, it's going to take time to do it right," he said of the spot that was kept secret for years while a park was planned.
|
|
|
|
|
sidepull
Apr 3, 2006, 1:32 PM
Post #497 of 568
(66296 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 11, 2001
Posts: 2056
|
100,000 people a year? hah!
|
|
|
|
|
rockclimber057
Apr 3, 2006, 10:12 PM
Post #498 of 568
(66296 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 13, 2004
Posts: 28
|
In reply to: The story behind this curiously named peak (so called because it resembles a Scottish cap) begins with the company that hired Smith.
Is this a mistake? Who is the Smith mentioned in the 9th paragraph.
I think the article meant Sherman, but I could be wrong.
dave
|
|
|
|
|
locker
Apr 3, 2006, 10:54 PM
Post #499 of 568
(67829 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 13, 2004
Posts: 126
|
I have put many many hours on those rocks out there. It was my "local Crag" for many years. I have so many great memories of my son and I climbing there. It would be an absolute shame to lose it. I think though that much of the climbing will still be there and access ok. Won't the Upper and Lower Devils and Euro Dog and Magma mine area stay open to climb? Clairify if you haven't already (I may have missed it and jusped the gun here as usual)... Is all of OAK FLATS/QUEEN CREEK going down the Mining Tubes or mostly just the Camping area and surroundings???...
feel free to insult me and call me names if this has already been dicussed and answered...
|
|
|
|
|
mikej
Apr 4, 2006, 8:48 AM
Post #500 of 568
(67829 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 7, 2006
Posts: 207
|
In reply to: Is all of OAK FLATS/QUEEN CREEK going down the Mining Tubes or mostly just the Camping area and surroundings???... feel free to insult me and call me names if this has already been dicussed and answered...
ha ha. ^ last line = funny :lol:
I could be wrong, but i believe its just the mine area, euro dog and the camp ground. There will still be quite a bit of the climbing open. Can someone correct me if i'm wrong? I'll ditto on locker's last line too.
|
|
|
|
|
|
