|
dominator
Aug 23, 2002, 5:46 AM
Post #1 of 197
(4188 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 18, 2002
Posts: 72
|
What do you think, are they a violation of our rights? Do they work? Do they make crime worse?
|
|
|
|
|
onbelay_osu
Aug 23, 2002, 5:53 AM
Post #2 of 197
(4188 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 5, 2002
Posts: 1087
|
this is an issue i have been torn over, i think that we need to begin to restrict the buying of weapons. i heard of this great idea that you MUST go through a course, and pass a national test, and become certified before you can buy amo. but my views are clouded by the fact that I HATE GUNS
|
|
|
|
|
jmlangford
Aug 23, 2002, 5:55 AM
Post #3 of 197
(4188 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 2, 2001
Posts: 1569
|
Just curious...why do you hate guns? Dominator...heck of a subject to pick for your first post.
|
|
|
|
|
onbelay_osu
Aug 23, 2002, 6:03 AM
Post #4 of 197
(4188 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 5, 2002
Posts: 1087
|
mainly because they kill, i personally see no thrill in holding a piece of metal that soul purpose is to kill, i know that you can argue that people dont kill but rather shoot paper but non the less the orginal idea behind the gun was to kill!
[ This Message was edited by: onbelay_osu on 2002-08-25 23:57 ]
|
|
|
|
|
sagarmatha
Aug 23, 2002, 6:07 AM
Post #5 of 197
(4188 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 6, 2002
Posts: 66
|
Personal view: I am against permissive gun laws. Too many guns/rifles = many dead. Many show ponies buy firearms to impress others and it ends in tragedy. Firearms should be left to those who need them in their work, eg. cops. If they abuse their possession of a firearm, they should be punished too. I always thought that if people buy a firearm they've got to be prepared to use it. Personally, I am uncomfortable (excluding exceptional circumstances eg. self-defence when threatened with death) with the idea of pulling the trigger on another human been. This said, I respect others' views on this issue.
Cheers
|
|
|
|
|
monkeyface1982
Aug 23, 2002, 6:13 AM
Post #6 of 197
(4188 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 30, 2002
Posts: 34
|
well here in Austrlaia they had a program call the buy back scheem
any semi auto and auto wepon were asked to be given back to the goverentment for disposil and you were paid for it
i think guns arnt the best thing in the world
but ppl do need them farmers out in the bush use them to distroy pest such as rabbits foxes and kangaroos.
all hand guns are illegal in NSW
so i thin it was a good way of trying to get em back
and guns dont kill ppl
people kill people
i think if you get rid of all the guns were just going to take a backwards step and start useing sticks and stones
so i think there should be a greater contol on who gets there hands on em and what guns are avalibe
i hate the thought of blowing 100 rounds in 3 seconds that just silly
one shot, one kill
thats what i was tought when hunting the pests on the farm
dont tourture them, its not there fault be humain.
well thats my 2 cents
|
|
|
|
|
rendog
Aug 23, 2002, 7:18 AM
Post #7 of 197
(4188 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 30, 2002
Posts: 2468
|
Up here we have a program that in order to be able to acquire a firearm, (legally that is, absolutley no control over illegal weapon sales) one must pass a certified "hunter safety course" that will then enable one to apply for a Firearm Acquisition Cirtificate (FAC). The government, along with CSIA, and local law enforcement will review your application and then decide if you qualify to receive said certificate and be able to purchase a weapon or even ammo for that matter.
Gun control is pretty hefty here. the Gov even wants you to register any weapons that you have in your possession. Even if it's grandpa's musket from who knows how long ago.
Register my rifle? HELL NO
That way if they feel that I don't deserve it, then they can come and take it away from me. I will only ever use my weapon for one reason only and that is to gather food so that I don't have to pay astronomical prices on steroid infested beef and enjoy the pure taste of wild game meat.
I don't hunt for the trophy, I hunt for myself, for the meat and I use every last piece of an animal that gives itself to me that I can.
"D"
[ This Message was edited by: rendog on 2002-08-23 00:21 ]
|
|
|
|
|
waxtadpole
Aug 23, 2002, 8:28 AM
Post #8 of 197
(4188 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 3, 2002
Posts: 171
|
:quote:
i think if you get rid of all the guns were just going to take a backwards step and start useing sticks and stones
:endquote:
I say sticks and stones may break my bones but guns can hit me while im running like a little girl.
No guns for citizens, except farmers, and then only shot guns (less rounds if it falls into the wrong hands)
Guns dont kill people... Thats the lamest argument on the planet. Guns kill people. I went to school with a kid who accidently shot himself in the head when he was eight.
I hear "If it wasnt loaded..."
I say "If there was no gun!"
If you can give me a purpose for a gun other than to kill I'll vote to repeal Oz's gun control laws.
Edit:
As for gun safety courses:
How can that prevent someone going postal? I'm sure Martin Bryant knew the proper safe handeling procedures.
What about kids? It is such and easy thing to forget to lock a cabinet.
[ This Message was edited by: waxtadpole on 2002-08-23 01:32 ]
|
|
|
|
|
pianomahnn
Aug 23, 2002, 12:32 PM
Post #9 of 197
(4188 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 17, 2001
Posts: 3779
|
Quote:
mainly because they kill,
Guns don't kill people; people kill people.
Lets start making laws restricting moronic people from living.
A disarmerment of the people will render the population incapable of keeping the government under control. That's why the founding fathers had that in the happy papers they painstakingly wrote. If the Government and its military have nothing to fear (being shot dead) there is nothing to stop them from making us slaves. No, not slaves in the sense of chained up, but think long and hard about how things are going as of late, and you'll understand.
Take away the guns, and you're taking away the liberty.
|
|
|
|
|
spank_spank
Aug 23, 2002, 12:43 PM
Post #10 of 197
(4188 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 14, 2002
Posts: 480
|
The constitution is outdated and needs to be revised. The laws of a hundred or 200 hundred years ago do not apply to todays world.
I believe in heavy gun control. But the evilness of the NRA and corporate gun makers will not let that happen. They lace the politician with money to keep their cause alive. Just like the cigarette and alcohol industry. Nothing will change until the politians change.
Even if we were able to control the guns in our nation, there would be a huge black market for them. Its a no-win situation.
WE ARE SCREWED
|
|
|
|
|
pianomahnn
Aug 23, 2002, 1:21 PM
Post #11 of 197
(4188 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 17, 2001
Posts: 3779
|
Quote:
Nothing will change until the politians change.
Would you like to know how to change a politician?
Put a gun to his/her head.
Scenario:
A woman is walking to her car on a dark night, out from the bushes jumps a bad dude, assuming this woman is not carrying a gun, the bad dude will (a) run away from her wicked ninja skills, (b) cry because he's scared of being hit with a hand bag, or (c) rob the woman because she was violated by her government in NOT being able to carry the weapon that could save her.
Crime goes down when criminals are scared. Criminals are not scared though because many people do not carry guns, and therefor have no real way to defend themselves against a crowbar or other device. If more people carried weapons, criminals would be forced to second guess their next attack for fear of themselves being assaulted.
This whole gun control debate is bred from complete ignorance and a total lack of of the ideals the United States of America were founded upon. The people were tired of being opressed and misrepresented by their "representatives," A situation we all too often find ourselves in now. Why is it like this once again? Because the representatives have nothing to fear, just as they (thought) back 230 years ago. The American public has mistakingly turned a blind eye to freedoms being ripped out of their hands daily, and people supporting gun control laws are only helping to seal the gloomy fate of every freedom loving American.
You can take your gun control laws and shove them far up your ass. When the military comes knocking on your door because you spoke out against the government I'll be down the street laughing my ass off as I clean my 9mm and start capping some ass.
|
|
|
|
|
diarmid
Aug 23, 2002, 2:10 PM
Post #12 of 197
(4188 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 27, 2001
Posts: 1073
|
"There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him." -Robert Heinlein
I refuse to give up my guns because of a bunch of irresponsible people or because YOU think it would be good for me. The argument that guns kill people is foolish - take the guns away and someone who wants to kill or take something will still do it. They can do it with a knife or stick, so lets take all the sticks away ... they can still strangle, so lets take all (into absurdity). Innocent people have died - true and tragic, but blame the stupidity and ignorance of owners. Punish the parent - quit making up little sob stories over it. People die.
And before you try to ask the question: yes, I have had people shot by guns - people very close to me. I have had someone pull a gun on me with malicious intent, and I've watched friends come out of buildings in bags from suicides and gun accidents. See aforementioned statement: people die.
Guns were meant to kill and thankfully they do their job and do it well. I've put dinner on my family's table more than once using my rifle and I will continue to do so. I fully support legislation making background checks and time delays prerequsites for the purchase of a gun, I fully support maximum punishment for people who misuse firearms (that includes people who shoot animals for pure joy of destruction) but as they say "you can take my guns away - from my cold, dead hands".
|
|
|
|
|
beyond_gravity
Aug 23, 2002, 2:10 PM
Post #13 of 197
(4188 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 2, 2002
Posts: 5078
|
Gun laws are over-rated.
You can't own any guns here aside from hunting rifles, which are very closly controlled....
I know I guy at school that I could get a hand gun from.
The people that would want to use a gun for killing people are the kind of people that sell the guns illegally. At least in Canada, eh?
|
|
|
|
|
blacksamba
Aug 23, 2002, 2:22 PM
Post #14 of 197
(4188 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 28, 2002
Posts: 128
|
Guns, eh!
Well let me just say that control in Alaska is known as being able to hit the target!
Guns are absolutely essential for backcountry protection. What would you rather have a can of pepper spray or a .44magnum if an angry sow is charging you?
read this article
http://www.adn.com/front/story/1633810p-1751603c.html
Last I checked Alaska is still part of the US and it would be insane to outlaw the possesion of firearms here! And if you cant do it here what makes the rest of the US any different.
That said I dislike the concept of assult rifles, and weapons designed to harm people more then animals etc. In the same boat I support measures to limit the number of assult rifles on the market as they do not serve the self protection argument made above.
ben
|
|
|
|
|
blacksamba
Aug 23, 2002, 2:23 PM
Post #15 of 197
(4188 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 28, 2002
Posts: 128
|
Guns, eh!
Well let me just say that control in Alaska is known as being able to hit the target!
Guns are absolutely essential for backcountry protection. What would you rather have a can of pepper spray or a .44magnum if an angry sow is charging you?
read this article
http://www.adn.com/front/story/1633810p-1751603c.html
Last I checked Alaska is still part of the US and it would be insane to outlaw the possesion of firearms here! And if you cant do it here what makes the rest of the US any different.
That said I dislike the concept of assult rifles, and weapons designed to harm people more then animals etc. In the same boat I support measures to limit the number of assult rifles on the market as they do not serve the self protection argument made above.
ben
|
|
|
|
|
climbchick
Aug 23, 2002, 2:34 PM
Post #16 of 197
(4188 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 29, 2001
Posts: 808
|
I think it would be great if NO-ONE had a gun, including the bad guys . . . but since that ain't gonna happen, there's no way in the world I would give up my guns. I don't hunt and I don't own guns for the sheer pleasure of it . . I keep a gun around for the sole purpose of defending myself against any bad person foolish enough to try to attack me.
If guns were made illegal then only the bad guys would have them and how scary does THAT sound?
The argument that people accidentally kill themselves with guns is silly. People also screw up their knots and die . . should we ban climbing? What about all the people who wrap their cars around telephone poles? They kill not only themselves but others.
|
|
|
|
|
wigglestick
Aug 23, 2002, 2:55 PM
Post #17 of 197
(4188 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 27, 2001
Posts: 1235
|
I think that the only people who should not be allowed to have guns are the ones who really, really want to have lots of guns.
All the personal protection stuff is crap. If you carry a gun for personal protection you are only more likely to get yourself or an innocent person shot.
Quote:
a gun in your hand makes a fool out of you, oh yeah
a gun in your hand makes a target out of me, oh no
freedom, you ain't no freedom, you want your freedom,
your freedom is killing you man, freedom
you can't handle your freedom, hey
and now you're dying for it
Rollins Band, Civilized
|
|
|
|
|
pianomahnn
Aug 23, 2002, 2:58 PM
Post #18 of 197
(4188 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 17, 2001
Posts: 3779
|
Quote:
If you carry a gun for personal protection you are only more likely to get yourself or an innocent person shot.
Unedited original reply
Do you have statistics and/or research to back up that claim?
New Reply
Wait a second, that is one of those DUH! and worthless statements. It's like saying, "If you run around with scissors in your hands your more likely to be stabbed with scissors." Or perhaps, "If you ride in a car you're more likely to die in a car crash than someone who walks through a remote forest."
How about this one? "If you don't carry a gun around for protection, you're more likely to not be able to defend yourself against the thug stealing your schnizzle."
Second Edit
And of course, bands are the foremost authority on everything and their lyrics should be praised as pure genius without a second thought.
[ This Message was edited by: pianomahnn on 2002-08-23 08:04 ]
[ This Message was edited by: pianomahnn on 2002-08-23 08:05 ]
|
|
|
|
|
climbchick
Aug 23, 2002, 3:14 PM
Post #19 of 197
(4188 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 29, 2001
Posts: 808
|
hear, hear, Piano.
|
|
|
|
|
pianomahnn
Aug 23, 2002, 3:15 PM
Post #20 of 197
(4188 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 17, 2001
Posts: 3779
|
Another inspiring Rollins Band lyric:
After we hang a little we're gonna have a little fun
Gonna go shoot and kill and go knife everyone
The bar looks like haven gonna have myself a drink
|
|
|
|
|
wigglestick
Aug 23, 2002, 3:22 PM
Post #21 of 197
(4188 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 27, 2001
Posts: 1235
|
Well I see you edited your reply but I have a few tidbits of data for you.
Here are a some quotes that I found on THIS Site.
Quote:Firearms injury is the second leading cause of non-natural death in childhood and adolescence. (CDC, 2000)
Quote:The issue of "home defense" or protection against intruders may well be misrepresented. A sudy of 626 shootings in or around a residence in three U.S. cities revealed that, for every time a gun in the home was used in a self-defense or legally justifiable shooting, there were four unintentional shootings, seven criminal assaults or homicides, and 11 attempted or completed suicides (Kellermann et al, 1998).
These are just a few items I found in about 5 minutes of searching. So feel free to rip them to pieces. Also look Here for more data.
*Edit had to fix a quote tag
[ This Message was edited by: wigglestick on 2002-08-23 08:23 ]
|
|
|
|
|
joel_gibbel
Aug 23, 2002, 3:26 PM
Post #22 of 197
(4188 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 19, 2002
Posts: 129
|
In my humble opinion, it's not the laws that need to change, it's the mindset of a lot of people. Personally, I will never own a gun of any kind because if I would then there would be a slight chance that I would be tempted to use it on someone. I have nothing against hunting, but I do have something against the mindset that you absolutely need a gun for protection, and are not afraid to use it (on a thief, for example). I think having a gun usually can only make a situation worse. If someone was stealing from me, I would let him. No harm on either end, except maybe me losing money. But it's just money. It's not worth risking my life over, and it's not worth taking someone else's life over (yes, even a "worthless" criminal). I would even go to the extreme that if I caught a man raping or killing my wife, I would not want to kill him. Our justice system is not perfect, but taking it into one's own hands is not the way to handle crime. Just my opinion, and to each his own.
|
|
|
|
|
pianomahnn
Aug 23, 2002, 3:32 PM
Post #23 of 197
(4188 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 17, 2001
Posts: 3779
|
I still left my original reply in, because I liked it also.
Quote:
Firearms injury is the second leading cause of non-natural death in childhood and adolescence. (CDC, 2000)
It would be nice to know the leading cause, so we can make another infringing law against that.
I'd like to bring up the Darwin Awards. Guns are a good way to weed out the stupid genetics. Stupid people end up killing other stupid people (gang violence) therefor decreasing the amount of the lame genetics in the gene pool. Yeah, okay, a poor argument, but it has a bit of truth to it.
If one follows the same logic of gun control lobbyists, then one should follow the same with vehicles. Many innocent pedestrians are killed each year because of crazy car driving people. But, it's not people who kill people, it's the car, so instead of just revoking someone's right to the car, we'll get rid of all cars.
Sounds pretty stupid, doesn't it? It sounds just as stupid when one inserts the word "gun" in place of "car."
|
|
|
|
|
jmlangford
Aug 23, 2002, 3:35 PM
Post #24 of 197
(4188 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 2, 2001
Posts: 1569
|
I saw this thread last night and already there is too much to reply to. Pianomahnn is doing rather well defending my point of view.
Here are a few points, just for starters.
1.If it weren't for guns in the hands of citizens, there would be NO United States.
2.The first shots of the Revolutionary War were fired when the British soldiers tried to confiscate weapons from the citizens.
3.Without the 2nd Amendment, the other amendments wouldn't exist.
4.Misuse of automobiles causes thousands and thousands of deaths each year-ban cars?
5.Alcohol kills thousands of people each year-ban alcohol? We know what happend the last time that was tried!
6.Gun laws only make criminals out of otherwise law-abiding citizens. The existing criminals don't give a rat's ass. Twenty-two gun laws were broken during the Columbine Massacre. Cops really were able to protect them weren't they? Think maybe a librarian with a gun in their desk might have been able to stop the rampage?
7.If you look at every mass murder such as Columbine and the other schools and businesses, there is a common denominator. ONLY THE BAD GUYS HAD GUNS!!!!
8.If every law-abiding citizen carried a gun, there would be a whole lot more polite behavior in society and the cops would have an easier job. Go ahead and call a cop to protect you as someone is breaking into your home. He'll get there in time to draw a chalk line around your body!
|
|
|
|
|
pianomahnn
Aug 23, 2002, 3:37 PM
Post #25 of 197
(4044 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 17, 2001
Posts: 3779
|
Education.
Families who are involved in hunting are well known for educating their children about guns.
Quote:
Hunting accidents with firearms, despite the large gun ownership in this country and numerous game seasons in most states, remain relatively rare and do not appear to be increasing.
from the site wigglestick quoted
Awareness and education are key (most of the time, except for a few very random cases where the person is just insane).
Why punish people who do a good job educating their children/families about guns and gun safety? Punish the people who are stupid about it.
Gah, my head stopped functioning, and I'm drifting all over, I have to stop.
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
