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ao
Apr 24, 2006, 2:03 PM
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When you go to a crag, and see a female climber among guys, do you assume she is the girlfirend of one of them, or someone who just got dragged along to see what climbing is? And using that assumption, you only address the guys about the route, excluding female? That may be the case some of the time, but also make room for the fact that she is a skilled climber, has the beta, and can climb the route and just as well as any of the guys. I'm not saying you have to go right up to the female any time you have question about a route, but don't disregard her as someone who's just "along to watch". It's just something to be aware of the next time you hit the crag.
Alison
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taino
Apr 24, 2006, 2:14 PM
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Do I do that?
No.
I don't assume anything. If there is a climber who happens to be female, I base my first impressions on the way she carries herself/state of her gear/knowledgability - same as I would a guy. It doesn't matter what type of plumbing you have.
T
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mr8615
Apr 24, 2006, 2:18 PM
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I wouldn't say that I see her as less than an equal climber, but do usually assume that she is 'with' one of the guys in the group. I'll address her equally when asking about the route they're on or asking about beta. In my experience, many girls who start climbing learn to climb with/from their significant other. Although this seems to be a declining trend.
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ao
Apr 24, 2006, 2:20 PM
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...which is what I'd hope the attitued of most climbers would be. It's more that this has happened to me on more than one occasion, and it doesn't seem that uncommon for female climbers in general. I don't sit around waiting for stuff to happen- I set up TR, flake the rope, take the first lead, etc. It's just something I've noticed- even as far as some guys don't take you seriously until after they've seen whether or not you can climb. I'm assuming (and hoping!) that the climbers I'm talking about are in the minority.
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mr8615
Apr 24, 2006, 2:30 PM
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I bet it feels good to see all those guys with their foot in their mouth after you lead the climb they just hung all over, especially if they treat you how you're saying. I wouldn't worry too much about it, those guys are posers anyway.
Ironically, yesterday a girl (who was climbing with a group of girls) came up to me and asked me for a recommendation between two 10a's on the same wall we were climbing. She completely ignored my (female) partner when asking if I had climbed the other 10a and which one was more 'classic'. The rest of her group came over and we all had a nice conversation, but when asking for beta/route info, she came to me and ignored my partner. Perhaps this isn't a male only phenomenon?
Mark
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tradmanclimbs
Apr 24, 2006, 2:32 PM
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The situation that you describe is more of a social interaction thing than a climbing thing. If the guys are all mucles , tatoos and attitude then I don't even hardly make eye contact with the woman. (self preservation) If everone in the group seems pretty harmless and of equal social stature then i treat everyone equaly. If my girlfriend is with me then i may feel uncomfortable talking to a woman who overly flaunts her sex as I do not want to look like I am only talking to her because her boobs are hanging out and her thong is showing. If you wnt to be treated equaly and on the merit of your climbing instead of your sex then hang out with people who treat you with respect and as an equal. If you are with a bunch of meat heads you may be treated like their property. To be looked at but not spoken to.
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ao
Apr 24, 2006, 2:37 PM
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The guys I climb with are hardly the meathead, all-attitude, tats all over type! Just normal climbers, friendly and social guys. And I'm definitely not "property"! :)
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wordless_chorus
Apr 24, 2006, 3:09 PM
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the dude who taught me to climb was taught by a girl who is still better than us
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mrberry
Apr 24, 2006, 3:13 PM
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I've had almost exclusively women partners in my first year of climbing (one of whom being my girlfriend), have generally been the least experienced of the group (though an equal to stronger climber) and am fully aware that there are strong, experienced, smart women climbers
...
that being said, in a group of climbers I would be more inclined to approach the guys. My thinking would be that someone with a similar body type to me--6'1" + lanky--would climb in a similar style/enjoy similar routes. More importantly, though, even at 23 I'm still deathly afraid of girls.
Also of note--I've had my partners referred to as my "girlfriend" and vice-versa.
.berry
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dingus
Apr 24, 2006, 3:16 PM
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Smart male climbers wait till the guys are distracted, THEN he asks the only female present for the beta!
DMT
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angry
Apr 24, 2006, 3:17 PM
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A beginner or someone along for the ride is easy to spot. Male or Female.
I take someone seriously or not because they are serious or not. Nothing to do with genitalia.
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boondock_saint
Apr 24, 2006, 3:24 PM
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I think if you have been climbing for a little while you can spot the good climber (male or female) right away. There's just something about the way they carry themselves and if you hear them talk you can (or I can at least) tell within a few sentences if they are noob or hardman(or hardwoman).
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heiko
Apr 24, 2006, 3:32 PM
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Maybe it also depends on where you go? I'm currently living in a very conservative place, and about 90% of the female climbers at the crags are only there because their bf's make them (which is very sad). So unless the girl doesn't appear in a very prominent way to be a "serious" climber, I wouldn't ask her for beta etc.
This was totally different in Scotland where I climbed a bit last year - there were more girls than guys climbing, and everyone seemed experienced, regardless of their sex.
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caughtinside
Apr 24, 2006, 3:38 PM
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Nope. I observe the dynamics of the interaction between the woman and her male partners. If it looks like she's not with any of the guys, then I make my move! 8^)
:P
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csgambill
Apr 24, 2006, 4:05 PM
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Girls skilled climbers? Ha! Now that's funny!
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vector
Apr 24, 2006, 4:12 PM
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In the circle of climbers I know, a good portion of the strongest are women. Therefore I tend to not make gender assumptions when I run into climbers. The sad thing is, in the area I climb in the _vast_ majority of female climbers at the crag tend to be GFs or part of a social outing. If I am not careful I can start to make assumptions, but for the most part I don't.
I will say that, again in the area I live, you will hardly ever see a couple climbing together where the woman is a stronger, more experienced climber than the guy. I think there are few men or women out there who would really be comfortable with that scenario--women still want men that they can admire for their strength and men want to fell strong. I personally would be happy to break the tradition, but all the strong women climbers won't talk to me. :)
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whipperboy
Apr 24, 2006, 4:12 PM
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Oh, yeah...I'd much rather talk to a lady then a group of guys. Call me strange...
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jcasper
Apr 24, 2006, 4:14 PM
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When my wife and I go out to dinner it seems that >50% of the time the server puts the check next to my wife. I don't get it. Maybe not shaving in two weeks and not cutting my hair for a year makes them think she's hooking the local homeless guy up with a meal? :)
At the crag, the only reason I would talk to guys of a group instead of a women would be to avoid any question of the appearance of flirting with or trying to pick up the girl (as someone mentioned above). As long as the scene seems okay and the other guys are around (i.e. I might hesitate to go up to her when she was separated from the group, cause that definitely looks suspicious) I would not care whether it was the girl or the guy I talked to. I do think that it is not just the tat covered meatheads that get jealous. I've seen the nicest of shy guys get pretty possessive real quick, even when she's not their girlfriend, and I don't want to be the one that helps bring a bad vibe to the crag. So I guess the key is to tread lightly until you figure out the group dynamics and/or make intentions clear.
(N.B. if I didn't talk to the girl it would be to avoid the guys not liking me "flirting" with "their girl", not because of my wife, she knows I've got nothing. :)
Jared
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dudemanbu
Apr 24, 2006, 4:15 PM
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In reply to: Girls skilled climbers? Ha! Now that's funny!
I know about a dozen girls who put your tick list to shame there buddy.
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reg
Apr 24, 2006, 4:21 PM
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In reply to: Nope. I observe the dynamics of the interaction between the woman and her male partners. If it looks like she's not with any of the guys, then I make my move! 8^) :P
it's about then my wife slaps the crap outta me - never good! :shock:
seriously - i talk to all persons like any of them so as not to offend - then glean info from all
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unrooted
Apr 24, 2006, 4:25 PM
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I ignore the guys and start telling the girl about the route that I want to do, and that If I don't do it is cause I'm thinking about her while I'm doing it.
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unrooted
Apr 24, 2006, 4:26 PM
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I ignore the guys and start telling the girl about the route that I want to do, and that If I don't do it is cause I'm thinking about her while I'm doing it.
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dudemanbu
Apr 24, 2006, 4:27 PM
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In reply to: Girls skilled climbers? Ha! Now that's funny!
First, i'd like to say nice troll. But just in case you're being serious I know about a dozen girls that put your ticklist to shame.
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wonderwoman
Apr 24, 2006, 4:42 PM
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In reply to: Girls skilled climbers? Ha! Now that's funny!
Don't make me kick your butt, pal! :x
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rhythm164
Apr 24, 2006, 4:44 PM
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Usually when I see a girl at the cliff, I beeline it right over to talk to her. Dudes get all weird when I tell them their harness makes their butt look cute. I don't know what the problem is :lol: :lol:
Seriously though, it's nice to see a girl who can keep up with guys. I especially like to watch a girl school the shit out of the local egobomb. That's my fav. Plus, they smell better, and not only that, they don't sweat, they glow :twisted:
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