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Male climbers- do you do this?
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kayo


Apr 24, 2006, 10:02 AM
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It has been my experience that very often the quiet girl hanging back watching will often kick the ass of every guy she's with once its her turn.


mark29


Apr 24, 2006, 10:29 AM
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I assume all climbers I meet at the crag are equally incompetent and unskilled.

But then I proceed to talk only to the men, mostly because my girlfriend gets jealous pretty easily.

Female climber - do you do this?
Never look at the guidebook; assume it is your boyfiend's (aka guide's) responsibility to select a route for you that perfectly suits your style and is not too reachy or too powerful or too sharp, but also not too easy (what, you think I'm not good enough to climb an 11c?!) and then lead it for you and rig the TR so that you will not swing more than 2 inches should you fall, yet also not commit you to actually reaching the anchor lest you suddenly decide half-way up that you don't in fact like climbing this type of rock?

Say what you want about gender-bias, but I don't know any men who could get that kinda service out of their female partners.


ao


Apr 24, 2006, 10:39 AM
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mark29, that's the most ridiculous statement I've heard, and especially to address it to female climbers. What you're describing is someone (regardless of gender) who is probably new to the sport. Although it may be hard for you to grasp the concept, female climbers have done that for less experienced male climbers.


Partner csgambill


Apr 24, 2006, 10:44 AM
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Can someone explain to me what girls are doing at the crag instead of working in the kitchen cooking dinner?


alpine_monk


Apr 24, 2006, 10:44 AM
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I do think that it is not just the tat covered meatheads that get jealous.
since when does having a lot of tattoos equate to being a meathead? I have about 20 hours total under the good ol' ink gun and I've been told that I am very aproachable. I would say I climb with about a 50/50 mix of guys and girls.


slablizard


Apr 24, 2006, 10:50 AM
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WEll of course ;)
Positioning of your pack near the targert is crucial too.


In reply to:
Smart male climbers wait till the guys are distracted, THEN he asks the only female present for the beta!

DMT


Partner hosh


Apr 24, 2006, 10:53 AM
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My wife taught me how to climb. She used to climb WAY better than me (until she got pregnant...) I anticipate that once that kid's outta her belly, she'll be schooling me again. She doesn't lead trad though. She'll lead a little sport, but not trad. :( She just says that leading isn't that exciting to her. I just don't get it...

hosh.


tradmanclimbs


Apr 24, 2006, 10:53 AM
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Many if not most tatoos are about being tough. Combine a weight lifters body w/ no shirt and barb wire tatooed arround the over developed bicep and you have someone whos bodylanguage screams "DON'T FUCK WITH ME OR TALK TO MY WOMAN" if all you have are sunshines, flowers and little raibows it probobly just makes you look like a harmless stoner.


Partner happiegrrrl


Apr 24, 2006, 11:04 AM
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I find that usually, if some guy is asking about a route where I climb(Gunks), they are usually bumbling along on the trail with their nose buried in a guidebook, not noticing my gender in any way(or looking at the cliff to compare the topo with the one in their book), but definitley sensing the presense of a living, breathing being.....who might just happen to have the answer to their query of "Which route are you on?," as they try to find their way to High E, Shockley's Ceiling, Horseman or Disneyland, depending on which section of the cliff we are at......


jcasper


Apr 24, 2006, 11:06 AM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
I do think that it is not just the tat covered meatheads that get jealous.
since when does having a lot of tattoos equate to being a meathead? I have about 20 hours total under the good ol' ink gun and I've been told that I am very aproachable. I would say I climb with about a 50/50 mix of guys and girls.
Sorry 'bout that, just using the image others had used in previous posts. One of my favorite climbing partners had a bunch of tattoos (btw, where'd you go Nate?), and I definitely don't think having tattoos equates to being a meathead. I think the stereotype is much more accurate the other way around: the meatheads often have a bunch of (usually bad) tattoos. Also, the meathead with a bunch of tattoos is the one who's girlfriend you probably don't want to mess with. (see tradmanclimbs post)

Jared


Partner jammer


Apr 24, 2006, 11:07 AM
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I like to treat everyone equal. Yet, I watch the group to see if they are approachable first. Some groups want to be left alone, others are ok and then there are those who love to talk. It all depends on them ... not me. Like tradman said, know the body language! It might save you some blood. If you are treading into an area that you should not be in, the bark from the big dog will let you know.

But, if everything is equal, I find talking to women easier then talking to a man.


mcernie


Apr 24, 2006, 11:15 AM
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In reply to:
I watch the group to see if they are approachable first.

best way to do it. if they are approachable, address the whole group. those who know will speak up...those that don't, won't; male or female.


caughtinside


Apr 24, 2006, 11:22 AM
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In reply to:
I assume all climbers I meet at the crag are equally incompetent and unskilled.

But then I proceed to talk only to the men, mostly because my girlfriend gets jealous pretty easily.

Female climber - do you do this?
Never look at the guidebook; assume it is your boyfiend's (aka guide's) responsibility to select a route for you that perfectly suits your style and is not too reachy or too powerful or too sharp, but also not too easy (what, you think I'm not good enough to climb an 11c?!) and then lead it for you and rig the TR so that you will not swing more than 2 inches should you fall, yet also not commit you to actually reaching the anchor lest you suddenly decide half-way up that you don't in fact like climbing this type of rock?

Say what you want about gender-bias, but I don't know any men who could get that kinda service out of their female partners.

I see this sort of thing all the time. Which builds the stereotype. I also see plenty of strong women, who can out crank me any day of the week, and plenty of independent women, doing they're own thing and climbing. The third kind are my favorite!


tradmanclimbs


Apr 24, 2006, 11:58 AM
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My GF is the rope gun on the rock, I am the rope gun on ice. I never asuume that a woman can't kick my butt climbing. the OP is however talking about a group of guys with a woman in the bunch. approaching this group with the least conflict may mean talking to one of the guys. If the woman does not want to be lost in a group then maby she should leave the possy behind and climb with a single partner? You get about 10 times as much climbing done that way 8^)


caughtinside


Apr 24, 2006, 12:04 PM
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In reply to:
If the woman does not want to be lost in a group then maby she should leave the possy behind and climb with a single partner? You get about 10 times as much climbing done that way 8^)

No kidding. I've never been a fan of the huge climbing group. Lots of sitting around gets accomplished, though.


ao


Apr 24, 2006, 12:13 PM
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Hmmm...was I giving the impression that it was me and like 10 guys? :) More accurately, it's me and one or two climbing partners. I guess it can look like a group if you're talking about routes with the party next to you...


tradmanclimbs


Apr 24, 2006, 12:27 PM
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Well if that's the case you will just have to start leading all the hard climbs :D i am suer that you will get pleanty of attention when us wimpy guys see you running the rope up the hard stuff 8^)


caughtinside


Apr 24, 2006, 12:33 PM
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Hmmm...was I giving the impression that it was me and like 10 guys? :) More accurately, it's me and one or two climbing partners. I guess it can look like a group if you're talking about routes with the party next to you...

Maybe the problem was that you were climbing around Boston. Everyone knows there's no hard climbers in boston, male or female. :P


ao


Apr 24, 2006, 12:38 PM
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Then we'll just move to Davis and kick your ass! :lol:


caughtinside


Apr 24, 2006, 12:42 PM
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I've got stick arms, so it shouldn't be too hard. :lol:


ozoneclimber


Apr 24, 2006, 1:18 PM
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You know what they say about assuming...

It makes an ass out of you and me.

-Bobby


Partner kasharp


Apr 24, 2006, 1:19 PM
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i've had this problem when climbing as well as pretty much any time i'm with a bunch of guys. i've been kind of offended, especially when girls will come up and talk to the guys and just ignore me. not like i'm the best/strongest climber in the world, but it's kind of rude to assume that i'm not before talking to me.
and if i'm with a guy and we're at the gas station or something, another guy will come up and start a conversation with my friend and ignore me.

kind of frustrating just because then i feel really awkward. like, i'm obviously not invited to be part of the conversation so should i just stand there and smile? should i walk away and do something else? should i butt in and be like "hey, i'm a person and have an opinion too!"

maybe this thread will make people more aware. :idea:
girls are there to do more than just look pretty, so treat us that way :D


climbsomething


Apr 24, 2006, 1:35 PM
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Good lawd. Why does everybody feel they have to be so PC? I think the pandering is more insulting.

This, sadly, is oftentimes true, and I know because sometimes I let myself do it. I mean, why not? Never turn down a free toprope. (although, I am a good judge of my own abilities and style and I don't need help for that, I don't sit and squeal, "what do i do now?" like I can't read a route, and I can certainly read a guidebook. All of the guidebooks in our "joint" collection are mine).

In reply to:
In reply to:
I assume all climbers I meet at the crag are equally incompetent and unskilled.

But then I proceed to talk only to the men, mostly because my girlfriend gets jealous pretty easily.

Female climber - do you do this?
Never look at the guidebook; assume it is your boyfiend's (aka guide's) responsibility to select a route for you that perfectly suits your style and is not too reachy or too powerful or too sharp, but also not too easy (what, you think I'm not good enough to climb an 11c?!) and then lead it for you and rig the TR so that you will not swing more than 2 inches should you fall, yet also not commit you to actually reaching the anchor lest you suddenly decide half-way up that you don't in fact like climbing this type of rock?

Say what you want about gender-bias, but I don't know any men who could get that kinda service out of their female partners.

I see this sort of thing all the time. Which builds the stereotype. I also see plenty of strong women, who can out crank me any day of the week, and plenty of independent women, doing they're own thing and climbing. The third kind are my favorite!

I don't treat everybody as equals because they're not. This is not to say I set people aside based on gender. I set them aside on apparent or demonstrated competence, and whatever gender that person is, so be it. It's also obvious to me who's a gumby or a hanger-on, regardless of plumbing. I am not going to address a chick for some kind of PC girl power reasons if it's demonstrated that her male companion/boyfriend/husband knows more than she does.

And I don't take it personally when somebody addresses my man or men instead of me, nor do I care when the server gives Alex the check when I'm usually the one paying. There's just no need to get worked up about shit like that.


Partner mr8615


Apr 24, 2006, 1:52 PM
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There's just no need to get worked up about s--- like that.

The voice of reason, case closed 8^)


legless


Apr 24, 2006, 1:58 PM
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what about the more direct predicate question "do you assume that a woman is not the strongest member of her mixed gender group?"

or maybe the even more charged
"prior to seeing a woman climb would you assume that you are a stronger climber than her"


to the first question---I have to say, in my 10 yrs of climbing I have personally never known a truly strong woman climber whose normal climbing "group" does not include stronger climbing men.


to the second---I would probably say---with full knowledge that there are many many super strong women climbers out there who climb me under the table---that the majority of women out there are going to be weaker than me. but im always stoked to climb with a strong chick when the opportunity arises.

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