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lowballin
Apr 26, 2006, 6:36 PM
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ive taken some of my best advise from girls while trying a problem. most of the time girls have more patience to help me work through it.
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brianri
Apr 26, 2006, 7:08 PM
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I climb almost exclusively in trad areas so if I ask for beta I usually ask the person with the rack. (No pun intended.)
Brian
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girlyoutalkto
Apr 26, 2006, 7:10 PM
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In reply to: our fine sport
I'm going to disagree with you there. It's not yours, it's not a sport that "belongs" to any one group, it's anyone and everyones. :roll: And btw, your entire opinion is pretty sexist. Just to clue you in: women have the right to vote and everything now, maybe you hadn't heard?
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caughtinside
Apr 26, 2006, 7:15 PM
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In reply to: My wife climbs better then I do. Here is a climbing couple for you caughtinside. You can have a please of seeing us in person to widen you horizons (just kidding but she can give your secret place a spin) And she is quite often nice enough to lead the route and set the toprope for the rest of the male climbers in our group.
I'm not really sure what most of your post says/means. Not sure about giving my secret place a spin. :shock: But, sounds like you are a climbing couple, and your wife is a better climber than you.
Great!
A couple responses to my question seemed a little defensive. I only mentioned it, because I climb pretty frequently, all over CA, and I've never seen it. I've never said that such couples don't exist. People who have posted here can only point to one example each. So it seems to be a very rare dynamic.
That's all. Good thing we're all so PC though. I tend to be a little on the crude side when I'm at the crag, laughing, joking, falling and swearing.
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ao
Apr 26, 2006, 7:26 PM
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In reply to: AO, Climbing is a male dominated avocation, but much less so when I started climbing over 20 years ago. When you enter any activity where you are an outsider and out-numbered, it is up to you to adjust your behavior, temperment, and personality to the norms of the group, not for the dominant culture to adjust their's to yours. When in Rome... Until climbing becomes as feminized as almost every other sport, suck it up. Lot's women can hang and fit in fine with groups of male climbers, and have for years. These women are who we call "cool chicks", and many of them crank and live harder than the dudes. They don't whine and tell us how to behave, and in so doing, gain full access, respect, and acceptance. Women that can't hang form their own scenes and climb excluisvely with gal pals. It's really that simple. Don't expect us to change our behavior just because you decided to grace us with your presence in our fine sport. Marc B.
You're completely missing the point. The purpose of my original post wasn't to whine and have every male climber conform to me, and to "feminize the sport", as you're suggesting. It was something I had noticed on occasion, and was curious how male climbers approached the situation. It has nothing whatsoever to do with fitting in with guys, telling them how to behave, or being able to climb with them. Guys who only address other guys and completely ignore the female is something that happens from time to time, and my intention was to make people aware of that.
Alison
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singin_rocker
Apr 26, 2006, 8:04 PM
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In reply to: When you go to a crag, and see a female climber among guys, do you assume she is the girlfirend of one of them, or someone who just got dragged along to see what climbing is? And using that assumption, you only address the guys about the route, excluding female? That may be the case some of the time, but also make room for the fact that she is a skilled climber, has the beta, and can climb the route and just as well as any of the guys. I'm not saying you have to go right up to the female any time you have question about a route, but don't disregard her as someone who's just "along to watch". It's just something to be aware of the next time you hit the crag. Alison
To the OP, which, is where I guess all responses should be directed....
We're all guilty of assumptions but you know what happens when you assume... So I bypass the whole foot-in-mouth scenario by watching. I haven't been climbing long but I've noticed it's very easy to see who actually has the experience and who want's to look like it. The people I really like to watch are the one's who don't care what anyone thinks.
Me, I don't care if anyone asks me for beta. I know some of my partners have more experience. I do speak up if I feel I have some important info to give but I think it's more about the community and respect. I mean, how would I react if some dude walked up and started talking to my wife and ignored me? If I'm obviously climbing like a sack of crap that day, no problem! Would be strange that he asked the 2nd for beta I suppose...
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slcliffdiver
Apr 26, 2006, 8:09 PM
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Beta (especially for overhanging climing) I tend to trust beta from guys that can do a specific route more than women (though I may ask the woman first just because I'm me). Basically there are more often differences in the way I need to do a move from a woman than a guy. I think it probably has mostly to do with men being more top heavey and having shoulders relatively wider than the hips of women and hand finger size comes in sometimes to.
Every hetero guy is going to probably go to hate me on this site for saying this but I think in general females would probably learn more useful movement skills by hanging with other strong female climbers at least for a time. Often enough weight shifts and hip turns just seem pretty different between me and females and I'm constantly jealous on roofs of females ability to just drop a foot and opposite hand to rotate their hip for the next hold when I have to throw my leg way out to the side to get my hip to rotate.
Anyway don't know how common this perception is but may be another factor involved in who asks who for beta.
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curtis_g
Apr 26, 2006, 8:12 PM
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I wish there were any single girls at my gym. really, there is one married couple, one girl that just sits around doing her college work while her boyfriend climbs and well, yea, that's about it...the occasional wife that comes in with the child to watch daddy climb,, the occasional couple that comes by once ever only to leave 15 minutes later saying 'that's really a good workout'.
I love my gym, can't stand most of the people there...maybe 3 other guys ever even clmib outside. that's depressing. so, OP question? none of the girls at my gym are exactly approachable. but i don't like to ask for beta anyways.
But I've never seen any single girls climbing at Devil's Lake. I'm already settled that my next girlfriend won't be a climber, instead she will have to be introduced to the life.
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littlepinktrollcam
Apr 27, 2006, 2:53 PM
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In reply to: women have the right to vote and everything now, maybe you hadn't heard?
Oh. . . . .That must be why the country's going to sh--!!!
In reply to: Every hetero guy is going to probably go to hate me
That pretty much excludes curtis_g and my namesake!!!
:twisted:
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curtis_g
Apr 27, 2006, 2:57 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Every hetero guy is going to probably go to hate me That pretty much excludes curtis_g and my namesake!!! :twisted:
I don't get it.
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wonderwoman
Apr 29, 2006, 3:08 AM
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In reply to: Maybe the problem was that you were climbing around Boston. Everyone knows there's no hard climbers in boston, male or female. :P
Hey, Pal! I resemble that remark! :lol:
Alison - we'll have to give a trip report or climbing sociological case study after tomorrow's Rumney excursion, eh?
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wonderwoman
Apr 29, 2006, 3:20 AM
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In reply to: I hardly ever ask people for beta so I am not in this coversation but if there were a group of people I think I would still favor asking the guys.
Sometimes it's not just about beta. Once when Blueeyedclimber (my husband) went off to pee in the woods, this guy asked me if BEC could climb up a route to get his draws back for him. I told him that he didn't have to wait for my husband because I could lead the route for him to get his draws back. The guy seemed kind of nervous about it and then proceeded to tell me not to try to take the draws at the top of the route down when I got to the top. You know, those drop-in's that are bolted into the top of a route? Jeesh! :roll:
By the way, I let my climbing speak for itself by returning his draws for him that he could not get back himself! :lol:
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weschrist
Apr 29, 2006, 5:11 AM
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In reply to: The guy seemed kind of nervous about it and then proceeded to tell me not to try to take the draws at the top of the route down when I got to the top. You know, those drop-in's that are bolted into the top of a route?
I just wanted to make sure you were being safe
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chouca
May 2, 2006, 8:09 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: our fine sport I'm going to disagree with you there. It's not yours, it's not a sport that "belongs" to any one group, it's anyone and everyones. :roll: And btw, your entire opinion is pretty sexist. Just to clue you in: women have the right to vote and everything now, maybe you hadn't heard?
Until the gals outnumber the lads, it's a male dominated sport, and the sub-culture and attitudes mirror it. Yoga has more women practitioners than men, which is reflected in the way people involved interact. Women and men are very different despite what you may have learned in women's studies classes. I would never go to a yoga class and bitch because everybody was quiet and contemplative.
What part of OUR didn't you understand? Don't twist my words to suit your agenda! I don't mind being called a sexist, or any other -ist, but you resorted to name calling and do not point out which statement was sexist. You also conveniently ignored the part where I said many women climb harder and fit right in with male climbers, and never tell us how to behave.
I don't mean to sound so defensive, but climbing is one of the few areas that has not been invaded by the sensitivity police, and I like the fact that I can go out with my buddies, be as obnoxious or exclusive as I choose, and cut loose. We overlook women involved until we figure out whether they are bettys, gf's, or climbers. It may not be fair, but what is?
We also go out of our way to encourage newbies, help anybody in distress, and are friendly to everybody we run into. Even gawkers asking 1000 questions deserve to be treated respectfully until they cross the line.
Marc B.
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dingus
May 2, 2006, 8:58 PM
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In reply to: I'm already settled that my next girlfriend won't be a climber, instead she will have to be introduced to the life.
What if she doesn't care for it?
DMT
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thisflash
May 2, 2006, 9:48 PM
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No. I ignore the dudes and start working it with the chick, assuming she's hot. I pretty much just start hitting on her like it's Friday night at the club, except I try to work talking about my pecs into the conversation and allow for some quality flexing time. Then I like to flash the climb that the dudes were hanging on and ask for the little lady's number. If there's a boyfriend there, that's usually the point at which a real swordfight begins. Usually though, the boyfriend is just a bump in the road.
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johnclimbrok
May 2, 2006, 10:18 PM
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In reply to: I bet it feels good to see all those guys with their foot in their mouth after you lead the climb they just hung all over, especially if they treat you how you're saying. I wouldn't worry too much about it, those guys are posers anyway. Ironically, yesterday a girl (who was climbing with a group of girls) came up to me and asked me for a recommendation between two 10a's on the same wall we were climbing. She completely ignored my (female) partner when asking if I had climbed the other 10a and which one was more 'classic'. The rest of her group came over and we all had a nice conversation, but when asking for beta/route info, she came to me and ignored my partner. Perhaps this isn't a male only phenomenon? Mark
maybe you're just a stud...
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curtis_g
May 3, 2006, 12:03 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: I'm already settled that my next girlfriend won't be a climber, instead she will have to be introduced to the life. What if she doesn't care for it? DMT
I don't think that the incompatibility will be isolated on the 'climber or not' issue. It's more of the adventurous lifestyle. If you can't enjoy rock climbing, or maybe if you're just not that strong, then if you can enjoy aiding or rappelling (even after you're introduced to it) then I don't think that girl would be compatible with my whole person.
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happiegrrrl
May 3, 2006, 12:41 AM
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In reply to: .....I like the fact that I can go out with my buddies, be as obnoxious or exclusive as I choose, and cut loose. We overlook women involved until we figure out whether they are bettys, gf's, or climbers. It may not be fair, but what is.
That's what I like about climbing too..... And I overlook guys until I figure out if they're barneys,* bf's or climbers too.....And that is as fair as fair gets, because I am a woman, and I say so.
*seems us women haven't come to the point yet where we have designated a term for the guy who is getting led up the route by his woman (though I spotted one this last weekend!) and being taught to climb and/or being taken care of..... So, I would like to make a motion that we refer to them as Barneys. All in favor.....?
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happiegrrrl
May 3, 2006, 12:41 AM
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In reply to: .....I like the fact that I can go out with my buddies, be as obnoxious or exclusive as I choose, and cut loose. We overlook women involved until we figure out whether they are bettys, gf's, or climbers. It may not be fair, but what is.
That's what I like about climbing too..... And I overlook guys until I figure out if they're barneys,* bf's or climbers too.....And that is as fair as fair gets, because I am a woman, and I say so.
*seems us women haven't come to the point yet where we have designated a term for the guy who is getting led up the route by his woman (though I spotted one this last weekend!) and being taught to climb and/or being taken care of..... So, I would like to make a motion that we refer to them as Barneys. All in favor.....?
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collegekid
May 3, 2006, 1:08 AM
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When I'm out climbing, and I see a woman, I'm all like "yo bitch, go make me a samich and get out of the way of us real climbers!"
If you couldn't tell, I was joking. Honestly, I ask whoever looks more experienced (i.e., not the person wearing rental shoes). And if the most experienced climber is incredibly hot, i'll probably avoid talking to her because really hot chicks make me nervous.
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heximp
May 3, 2006, 1:36 AM
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Barney sounds good!
I also use Baba Gump for the good looking guy with no brain. Needer for neanderthal males that mistakenly think that being assholes is equal to being tough.
Oh, there are so many poor babies needing to grow up I can't name them all.
All I know is that the strongest climbers usually are the kindest and least likely to show off.
As for strong women climbers, we exist and most men do realize we are capable. As for the rest who don't notice us, I don't want to talk to them anyway! Please someone, make sure they keep overlooking me!
AF
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zozo
May 3, 2006, 1:57 AM
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By the powers invested in me by the state of Rockclimbing.com I hereby pronounce this thread officially dead. Thank you for attending, please use the exits clearly marked in the back.
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shanz
May 3, 2006, 1:57 AM
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Guess i got lucky my fiance never climbed before she met me, now she wont shut up about climbing, though id rather have her nagging me to go climbing than naggin me to do some stupid crap like clean the house. Of course she climbs way harder than me and make me look like a sissy--- life is good :!:
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