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Poway crags closed indefinitely.
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welikoa


May 8, 2006, 10:54 AM
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Poway crags closed indefinitely.  (North_America: United_States: California: San_Diego_County: Poway_Crags)
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The poway crags were put off limits due to the wildfires and to foster vegetation regrowth and other reasons. The status of it being opened again has been a slow and vague dialogue, but now it will be closed indefinitely. Why? Because an eagle has landed and made a nest on top of one of the buttresses and eagles will use that nest as long as it lives. Any climbing in the vacinity could disturb them. Any hope of reopening has been sealed shut by the eagle. Someone who works for park services posted the signs of its demise and sadly (a fellow climber) told me that it will not be opened any time in the future. If you are thinking of going out there anyways, or hoping someday it will open again, i am sorry, also know that a 10,000 dollar fine will be issued if you go near them at all.
A sad day. I learned how to climb there years ago and have many great memories. We will miss you poway crags!


matt17


May 8, 2006, 11:50 AM
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Re: Poway crags closed indefinitely. [In reply to]
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i got a BB gun.......




haha that was joke. eagles are cool.


alpinismo_flujo


May 8, 2006, 12:35 PM
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Re: Poway crags closed indefinitely. [In reply to]
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Thanks for the update. Was thinking about driving down there soon. Oh well... :cry:


mtnfr34k


May 8, 2006, 1:52 PM
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Re: Poway crags closed indefinitely. [In reply to]
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Usually raptor closings - even for eagles - are seasonal. Is there a local climbing advocacy group that could speak to the land managers?


Partner philbox
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May 8, 2006, 3:21 PM
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philbox moved this thread [In reply to]
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philbox moved this thread from General to Access Issues & Closures.


kindredhawk


Jun 3, 2006, 5:20 AM
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Re: Poway crags closed indefinitely. [In reply to]
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awwww tear!!!!! I love wild life and shall respect the bloody eagle but that sucks!!!! How long is the life span of an eagle any who?!?!?!


welikoa


Jun 3, 2006, 10:40 AM
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Re: Poway crags closed indefinitely. [In reply to]
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im not sure really, i think its a long time. I also know that the nesting season is only a few months, so perhaps in the future the season to climb could be regulated a few months out of the year? hope so.

God damn eagles.


frankiethefish15


Sep 30, 2008, 10:16 PM
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Re: [welikoa] Poway crags closed indefinitely. [In reply to]
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So this tread is pretty old now...is this crag still closed? I was by there the other day, and did not see any signs or warnings about closure...


quiteatingmysteak


Sep 30, 2008, 11:10 PM
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Re: [welikoa] Poway crags closed indefinitely. [In reply to]
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Yup, often the story with climbing in san diego county.

Definitely causes a headache. A lot of rock to climb here, and a lot of people that will sue your pants off if you try to climb it.


frankiethefish15


Oct 1, 2008, 9:40 AM
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Re: [quiteatingmysteak] Poway crags closed indefinitely. [In reply to]
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Now where is it exactly that you are seeing that it is closed? I know people that have gone climbing there as recently as yesterday and they all say that it is open...

Looking at the Allied Climbers of San Diego website on their access to local crags Poway Crags is listed as open... http://www.alliedclimbers.org/crags.php


(This post was edited by frankiethefish15 on Oct 1, 2008, 9:42 AM)


frankiethefish15


Jul 24, 2009, 11:48 PM
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Re: [frankiethefish15] Poway crags closed indefinitely. [In reply to]
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It is closed again, dang golden eagles...


iching


Aug 2, 2009, 11:25 PM
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Re: [mtnfr34k] Poway crags closed indefinitely. [In reply to]
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Without being familiar with your area and without knowing which agency you are dealing with I can only offer a general perspective.

Bald eagle closures are seasonal as are Peregrine closures. They extend from the time of courtship to just after the young fledge the nest or eyrie. As a climber it is important to follow these closures not because you will be fined $M but because your are helping to maintain your climbing environment. About two weeks after the young have left the nest they are no longer considered to be sensitive to disturbance and are no longer using the nest. You can not be fined under the Migratory Bird Act for "Take" which is considered a critical disturbance. The person who started this discussion may have his facts wrong.

A total year around closure would be "arbitrary and capricious". Generally total closures result from a single resource opinion, poor management practices by decision makers, and a lack of public process and accountability. Unless the public speaks out on these issues it becomes too easy for a decision maker to place arbitrary overly restrictive closures that are based more on the personality of a single specialist providing them an "opinion" than it is a decision supported in facts, science, and policy.

As a generality you can often expect Biologists, Botanists, and Heritage specialists to push for the most restrictive closures they can. This can be particularly true when there is little or no professional accountability required by the decision maker or the public.

My recommendation would be to learn everything you can about eagle management in your area and the management and political atmosphere of the agency you are dealing with. To learn about eagle management in your area make a personal contact and visit to your local State and Federal Fish & Wildlife Service and learn everything you can on eagle management, when seasonal closures in your area are actually recommended. The find out who the decision maker/manager was that approved the closure. Make personal contacts in the agency and make personal visits to discuss your concerns with the decision maker and a recreation advocate.

If you are an access fund member, once you know your facts and contacts contact the access fund who can often can often provide helpful guidance and resource information, or will recommend people in your area who can be help.


(This post was edited by iching on Aug 2, 2009, 11:29 PM)


bandycoot


Aug 5, 2009, 1:25 PM
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Re: [iching] Poway crags closed indefinitely. [In reply to]
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iching wrote:
A total year around closure would be "arbitrary and capricious". Generally total closures result from a single resource opinion, poor management practices by decision makers, and a lack of public process and accountability. Unless the public speaks out on these issues it becomes too easy for a decision maker to place arbitrary overly restrictive closures that are based more on the personality of a single specialist providing them an "opinion" than it is a decision supported in facts, science, and policy.

As a generality you can often expect Biologists, Botanists, and Heritage specialists to push for the most restrictive closures they can. This can be particularly true when there is little or no professional accountability required by the decision maker or the public.

My recommendation would be to learn everything you can about eagle management in your area and the management and political atmosphere of the agency you are dealing with. To learn about eagle management in your area make a personal contact and visit to your local State and Federal Fish & Wildlife Service and learn everything you can on eagle management, when seasonal closures in your area are actually recommended. The find out who the decision maker/manager was that approved the closure. Make personal contacts in the agency and make personal visits to discuss your concerns with the decision maker and a recreation advocate.

If you are an access fund member, once you know your facts and contacts contact the access fund who can often can often provide helpful guidance and resource information, or will recommend people in your area who can be help.

Awesome post! The Poway crags are currently closed permenantly year round, and yes, this is "arbitrary and capricious." It is due to a local environmental group pushing for the most strict closure possible and shoveling misinformation toward land managers who are listening. The closure used to be seasonal, I believe. The Allied Climbers of San Diego (ACSD)are currently working to reverse this overly extreme closure, and trying to have it changed to be relevant and scientifically based. If anyone would like to check us out, please see www.alliedclimbers.org or come to one of our Tuesday meetings (see our website) where there are monthly updates on the situation as well as other access issues in the San Diego and So Cal area. We're always in need of more members and help, so please join!

Josh Higgins


curt


Aug 5, 2009, 9:16 PM
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Re: [bandycoot] Poway crags closed indefinitely. [In reply to]
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bandycoot wrote:
iching wrote:
A total year around closure would be "arbitrary and capricious". Generally total closures result from a single resource opinion, poor management practices by decision makers, and a lack of public process and accountability. Unless the public speaks out on these issues it becomes too easy for a decision maker to place arbitrary overly restrictive closures that are based more on the personality of a single specialist providing them an "opinion" than it is a decision supported in facts, science, and policy.

As a generality you can often expect Biologists, Botanists, and Heritage specialists to push for the most restrictive closures they can. This can be particularly true when there is little or no professional accountability required by the decision maker or the public.

My recommendation would be to learn everything you can about eagle management in your area and the management and political atmosphere of the agency you are dealing with. To learn about eagle management in your area make a personal contact and visit to your local State and Federal Fish & Wildlife Service and learn everything you can on eagle management, when seasonal closures in your area are actually recommended. The find out who the decision maker/manager was that approved the closure. Make personal contacts in the agency and make personal visits to discuss your concerns with the decision maker and a recreation advocate.

If you are an access fund member, once you know your facts and contacts contact the access fund who can often can often provide helpful guidance and resource information, or will recommend people in your area who can be help.

Awesome post! The Poway crags are currently closed permenantly year round, and yes, this is "arbitrary and capricious." It is due to a local environmental group pushing for the most strict closure possible and shoveling misinformation toward land managers who are listening. The closure used to be seasonal, I believe. The Allied Climbers of San Diego (ACSD)are currently working to reverse this overly extreme closure, and trying to have it changed to be relevant and scientifically based. If anyone would like to check us out, please see www.alliedclimbers.org or come to one of our Tuesday meetings (see our website) where there are monthly updates on the situation as well as other access issues in the San Diego and So Cal area. We're always in need of more members and help, so please join!

Josh Higgins

Josh,

I'm sure this has been answered before, but is the AF coordinating with you on this issue?

Curt


bandycoot


Aug 5, 2009, 10:10 PM
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Re: [curt] Poway crags closed indefinitely. [In reply to]
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Curt,

ACSD has had an obscene amount of support from the Access Fund. Our executive director has been consulting with them constantly for quite some time. The current issue in Poway is linked to a continuing 2-3 year old problem with the Cleveland National Forest that the AF has been helping us with from the beginning. Thanks for asking though!

Josh


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