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311unity
May 17, 2006, 3:34 AM
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Registered: Jan 11, 2006
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what would be a good first set? nothing that will cost much $$$ but something good!
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spikeyhair13
May 17, 2006, 3:47 AM
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I would wait it out for a good set/ set u prefer, if cash is the prob that is, no point in haveing draws that u will just replace in a year anyways. i have clipped may a draw and have to say i prefer to have somethign with a pretty wide dogbone (less prone to spinning) and a wiregate for the rope end with straight gate for the bolt. but thats just me, wait it out for a set u will like.
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theirishman
May 17, 2006, 4:15 AM
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well how new to climbing are you? you might want dare i say? ALPINE DRAWS!! you never know when youll get into trad and alpine draws work just fine fo sport!
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sbaclimber
May 17, 2006, 4:25 AM
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In reply to: well how new to climbing are you? you might want dare i say? ALPINE DRAWS!! you never know when youll get into trad and alpine draws work just fine fo sport! |
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fishman
May 17, 2006, 4:30 AM
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my first set of draws (the set im using right now...been using them for about a year now) consists of 5 of the omega pacific dirt bag draws (as basic of a draw as you can get) 4 black diamond draws, and 3 random ones mixed in. haha its not pretty by any means but this set up has protected me on countless 10s and 11s!! getting to the point now that im starting to look for a new set. got these just because of the prices since i'm a poor college student. i figured since i was just starting to lead any old thing would do and they were great to learn with. also keep looking for deals in the classifieds here, i've seen plenty of sets go way cheap!
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sbaclimber
May 17, 2006, 4:50 AM
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In reply to: .....consists of 5 of the omega pacific dirt bag draws (as basic of a draw as you can get)........i figured since i was just starting to lead any old thing would do and they were great to learn with..... |
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mcgivney_nh
May 17, 2006, 10:42 AM
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In reply to: Plus, you can alway canabalise the 'biners off the dogbones for trad draws later instead (especially at $5 per biner).
Exactly, plan on doing that, as opposed to using alpine draws for sport.
-Sean
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311unity
May 17, 2006, 2:57 PM
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I have been climbing for a little less then a year. i have been out doors alot when i live in PA but i moved to TX about a month or 2 ago, idr. anyways i really really wanna get outside here and start doing sport climbing. i know this means nothing but can lead climb in the gym about 5.11-, just so you know about my skill level.( yes i know its harder outdoors, but just wanted you to know a Little bite of my skill so you could recommend me some good draws) and money is really not a factor i just don't wanna break the bank.
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slacklinejoe
May 17, 2006, 3:05 PM
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Well, if you aren't trying to scrape by on ramen noodles then here is my favorite recommendation:
Buy some cheap spectra dogbones off gearexpress.com
Buy some Omega Pacific JC's for rope side biners
Buy some Wild Country Heliums for the Bolt side (gearexpress and other places has them in 5 packs or larger to save some $)
Benefits:
Perfect biners to canibalize for other use, not notch to hang on your harness or bolt hanger, very light weight (there are a few lighter alternatives to the JC, depending on preference - but it is fairly cheap and clips IMO very well), large turning radius on the rope biner and you can choose your prefered length of quickdraw dogbone (I like a mix of 5", 7" and 8").
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fishman
May 17, 2006, 3:33 PM
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Registered: May 7, 2006
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hmm nevermind then! starting out i always had trouble clipping but i assumed it was because i just was bad at clipping and still getting used to it. now that i've praticed clipping with those so much its nothing to me but guess it was not a problem for me because i didnt have experience with any draws before that. haha oh well
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redpoint73
May 17, 2006, 3:41 PM
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Don't cheap out. Buy something that you will be happy with in the long run. Why spend $120+ for a set of draws, only to spend more money on a better set of draws later? Get a set of Petzl Spirits and be done with it. Buy the BD knockoffs, the Positrons, if you wanna save a couple bucks. But the Spirits are still better.
Despite what above posts have suggested, try to avoid any notched biners on the bolt hanger side. It may seem unimportant, but if you ever try to downclean a traversing or overhanging sport route, you will figure out why people rave about keylock so much.
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musicman1586
May 17, 2006, 3:46 PM
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Registered: Oct 26, 2005
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Personally I agree with the people that say save up for a bit longer and buy a better draw. If you spend money on a decent to excellent draw now, you won't be trying to replace them for many years (well, possibly replacing the dogbone when it starts to show wear, but even then that takes a long time). If you go cheap now, in no time you'll be fed up with your draws and will be looking to drop another 100, 150+ to replace your cheap draws for better performing ones. In the short span, it's more expensive, but in the long run it's cheaper by about half of what you could spend.
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mtikusis
May 17, 2006, 4:40 PM
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Registered: Nov 14, 2005
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Omega Pacific makes some pretty poor draws. I had a pair a few years ago. I really like a set with wire gates at the rope end such as Black Diamond Neutrino's or Trango Superlights.
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lordjim
May 17, 2006, 5:07 PM
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Registered: Oct 16, 2003
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Ditto on the "buy 'good' draws now".
Buy a few when you can and keep an eye out for sales. Expecially keep your eyes on the "hot deals" thread here. I dig BD Straight gate positrons for the bolt end, Hotwires for the rope, and Petzl Express dogbones.
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mattm
May 17, 2006, 5:10 PM
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Registered: May 20, 2003
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If price isn't a huge concern...
Heed the recomendations to not skimp - you'll just spend more in the end.
No punches pulled..
1) Avoid OP draws like the plague - never liked them ESPECIALLY the JCs
2) Since these are dedicated SPORT Draws you have 2 main needs, IMO. a) Ease of clipping the rope b) ease of removal from harness and/or bolt.
How do you get these qualities?
Ease of clipping - I think that a large wire gate biner is THE way to go here - there's still a lot of good things about the Petzl spirt but I've found the wire gate tends to grab the rope and "track" it into the biner even better. So for the lower biner a largish wiregate (not Neutrinos, they're too small) Best Overall: BD Hotwire. Euro Alts: Helium(great!) or Spirit BMW Way: Helium or BD LiveWire
Ease of removal - This doesn't get enough attention. Taking the draw of your harness (esp those with skinny gear racks) is a pain when it gets caught. Even more frustrating is when cleaning routes. Often on overhanging stuff the climbers pulls in on the draw and unclips in one motion, swinging back draw in hand. Notched biner often get caught on the bolt making this maneuver a pain. So keylock or notchless biners on top are THE WAY to go. Options? Best overall: Petzl Spirit Euro Alts: Helium USA Alts: BD Positron and Dynotron
So where does this leave you? Well if we combine the above biner needs you're looking at 4 draws to choose from. 1) The venerable Petzl Spirit Draw. $20.90 2) The damn sexy WC Helium Draw (Ferrari red and silver baby) $22.95 3) the BD Dynotron/Livewire Draw $19.95 or 4) the Positron/Hotwire Draw:$17.95
If cost were no object I'd go with the Helium draws - I think this is the best carabiner made today and hence the draw is damn fien as well. But it's mega $$. Again the spirits are nice but are $$ and no wire gate bottom biner.
OF the two BD options the Positron/Hotwire or Posiwire option is the better of the two. it's $2 less AND when you take those draws apart for other uses (parting for trad use perhaps) the individual biners are far more useful than the more quickdraw specific dynotron and livewire.
Answer: Get a bunch of the BD Posiwire Draws and never look back. Or get a bunch of the WC Heliums and have everyone look at you.
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musicman1586
May 17, 2006, 6:02 PM
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Registered: Oct 26, 2005
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Randomly checked out Mountain Gear, here's what they have going. For one, if you buy in "bulk" you get a reduced price, so here's some of those reduced prices.
Petzl Spirit- 11cm and 17cm lengths- 17.45
Black Diamond Positron- 15.75
Dynotron/Livewire- 17.95
Posiwire- 16.15
Pretty good prices, several dollars off each of their individually sold prices, so there's another way you can save if you buy your draws in "sets". I didn't even shop around any, I just randomly logged on to http://www.mgear.com so if you look around you can maybe find better deals. Check out http://froogle.google.com/ I've found that it actually works quite well, you do have to search through the random links it finds, but I've found some really great deals that I wouldn't have found otherwise, so it's worth a shot.
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311unity
May 21, 2006, 5:00 AM
Post #20 of 23
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Registered: Jan 11, 2006
Posts: 33
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ok well i just found out today at work( i work at an indoor gym) that i can get pro deals from Petzel so i can get a 10 pack of spirits for XX$ plus S@H, so im gonna get them for alittle cheaper!
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climbingaggie03
May 21, 2006, 3:34 PM
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Registered: Mar 18, 2004
Posts: 1173
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Number one rule about prodeals is we do not talk about prodeals :) don't worry too much about it, especially since you're new to the prodeal world, but it's true, it's not something to go spraying about.
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carpie
May 22, 2006, 2:17 PM
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Registered: May 5, 2006
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I'd have to go with what the "save your money for better gear" option. Actually, that is what I did, and I was able to get the draws that I wanted.
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