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Sir Edmund Hillary Unhappy With Climbers Who Walked By Sharp
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Partner phaedrus


May 25, 2006, 6:08 AM
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Sir Edmund Hillary Unhappy With Climbers Who Walked By Sharp
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To say that Sir Edmund Hillary wasn't too happy to hear that some climbers had continued past David Sharp as he was dying would be an understatement: http://articles.news.aol.com/...id=NWS00010000000001


paganmonkeyboy


May 25, 2006, 6:32 AM
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Re: Sir Edmund Hillary Rips Climbers Who Left Dying Man [In reply to]
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"Human life is far more important than just getting to the top of a mountain," Hillary was quoted as saying in an interview with New Zealand Press Association.

yup. yup. yup. Nice to see the man take a stand on this one.


doubledare


May 25, 2006, 7:07 AM
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I disagree [In reply to]
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Anyone would agree that "Human life is far more important than just getting to the top of a mountain" but that's a pretty simplistic interpretation of this situation.

The REAL question is, should the other climbers value David Sharp's like more than he valued it? I mean, he chose to climb solo which has many moral and ethical implications.

when you choose to do Everest SOLO you are not just abstaining from the companionship on trail. You choose to go without the safety net provided by other climbers. I believe it was the guy who did the first solo ascent of Denali did late in the season--when everyone else would be off the mountain--to make sure there was no possibility of help from other climbers--nobody to give him food they carried up the mountain, provide shelter, or mount a rescue. In his opinion, you have to be truly alone on the mountain to record a solo ascent. In this case, the man chose to climb solo while other climbers where on the mountain, but by choosing to go solo, he also chose increased risk for himself and I hope didn't expect any help on the mountain. If he did go up there solo expecting that other climbers would bail him out if he got into trouble, that would make him a selfish S.O.B. with little regard for anyone but his own summit attempt. However, I don't think this is the case. My guess is that David Sharp was a strong INDIVIDUAL who wanted to test himself against the mountain...alone. If you climb solo you don't anticipate or expect help from other climbers.

In short, if he would have wanted help, he wouldn't have been alone. it's not the responsibility of everyone else up there to take care of screwballs who want to go solo. Your primary responsibility is the safety of your party...not to care for people you find along the way.

In my opinion, David Sharp died doing what he wanted to do. He chose the method of his death. And it's pretty lame to pass the blame onto other climbers who happened to be on the mountain.


Partner j_ung


May 25, 2006, 7:24 AM
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it's not the responsibility of everyone else up there to take care of screwballs who want to go solo. Your primary responsibility is the safety of your party...not to care for people you find along the way.

And if your party is sufficiently safe that they might choose to push for the summit, instead of assist a dying man?

Your words ring very true in theory, but in practice, I think it's a different story. I would never leave a dying person behind so I can summit, no matter how long and arduous my own journey was to get to within striking distance, and no matter why that person chose to be out there in the first place.

"New Zealander Mark Inglis, who became the first double amputee to reach the mountain's summit on prosthetic legs, told Television New Zealand that his party stopped during its May 15 summit push and found Sharp close to death..." and for some reason, decided to leave him to die. The stated reason, that David Sharp had little hope of surviving anyway, is not good enough to justify leaving him, IMO. Unless Inglis and everybody else who passed Sharp by can offer a better reason than that, I have zero respect for their accomplishments. But since it's obvious they all judged their own lives were not in sufficient danger to abandon their summit bids, I can't imagine any of them have such a reason.

Had they acted in such a way to save their own lives, I might think otherwise. The only justifiable reason I can think of in this case, is that they might not have known how close to death Sharp was. But Inglis' own words tell a different story.


dingus


May 25, 2006, 7:37 AM
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Re: Sir Edmund Hillary Rips Climbers Who Left Dying Man [In reply to]
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The 7 Summits, Dick Bass, John Krakauer and others have reduced Everest to some sort of pathetic high end tourist destination. Tourists aren't expected to and don't reckon on having to rescue other tourists, that's what Officials are for.

You pay 50k to get into Disneyland you expect someone else to clean up the mess, eh?

DMT


paganmonkeyboy


May 25, 2006, 7:42 AM
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In reply to:
Anyone would agree that "Human life is far more important than just getting to the top of a mountain" but that's a pretty simplistic interpretation of this situation.

The REAL question is, should the other climbers value David Sharp's like more than he valued it? I mean, he chose to climb solo which has many moral and ethical implications.

Does this extend to the dude soloing the crag I'm on ? I mean, he decided to solo, if he decks let him call for help himself ?
Don't get me wrong dude - I see your point. I just value humans more than just about anything else on this planet, and unless you are wearing a sign that says "let me die", I'm gonna try to help you if you need it, regardless...


fleshwater


May 25, 2006, 7:49 AM
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I think it will always depend on the situation, and we can never judge it from afar. I agree with doubledare on some points there, if you are going solo you are intentionally putting yourself in that place because solo with a safety net isn't solo at all... its solo with a safety net. However unlike Denali which is covered in people quite a bit, doing a true 'solo' of Everest is a little more difficult only because the window of opportunity is extremely small... we don't know what his mindset was, and never will. I personally would do the same as j_ung and help the man first, but I wasn't there.


overlord


May 25, 2006, 8:02 AM
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even if he DID go solo, thats still no excuse for leaving him there. maybe he didnt count on help, but that doesn mean he didnt deserve it.

now, i would unredstand if the party(s) were on their last legs and couldt retreat with him. but to leave him there and just KEEP GOING is totally screwed.

yea,yea, i know why should you sacrifice your maybe only shot at the top?

but why wouldnt you? i know that (for me) saving a mans life or at least trying to is much more important than some summit. and when it stops being so, ill stop climbing/mountaneering.


alpinismo_flujo


May 25, 2006, 8:13 AM
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Re: Sir Edmund Hillary Rips Climbers Who Left Dying Man [In reply to]
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There are so many factors involved in a situation like this. There is no way for any of us to determine what we would do unless we were there....


roy_hinkley_jr


May 25, 2006, 8:19 AM
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In reply to:
even if he DID go solo, thats still no excuse for leaving him there. maybe he didnt count on help, but that doesn mean he didnt deserve it.

Do some more research. They did all that was possible to help Sharp. Hillary didn't have all the facts when reporters tracked him down and he's long railed against the commercialization and took that opportunity again. Overall, climbers acted very commendably regarding this situation.

But the stealing of supplies from high camps (when lives weren't at risk) is despicable.


musicman1586


May 25, 2006, 8:20 AM
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Sad that after gaining so much respect for Inglis I now have lost it all...
I hope that his conscience can deal with the fact that he let a man die just so that he could reach a material goal, I could never bear to look at myself again after doing such a thing. It's sad that humans really are that selfish, Everest will be there for centuries to come, David Sharp won't because of other's greed.

To those that say he "deserved" to be left, that's just ridiculous, if you have the oppurtunity to save someone's life, you save someone's life, there is no excuse for not trying to do all that you can. Just as someone has said, if that solo climber falls at your local crag, are you going to leave him there? Does the drunk driver who just ran his car into a light post deserve to be left just because he was intoxicated? People do risky things all the time, and just because they did so and it turned out against them does not justify not giving them all the assistance that they require. Life is the most cherishable and valuable thing we have, and there's no excuse for not trying.


curtis_g


May 25, 2006, 8:27 AM
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In reply to:
There are so many factors involved in a situation like this. There is no way for any of us to determine what we would do unless we were there....

right on, i dont think anone can tell what they would have doen or what should have been done. we don't know thir situation. so many variable factors...


sungam


May 25, 2006, 8:33 AM
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Anyone that thinks that there is anything to this but greed and selfishness is completely wrong.
If a man is dying, and he did die, as a fellow mountaineer, climber, and human being you do ANYTHING that you can to save him. Whatever the chances of success. All GOOD mountaineers know this. as he said, fortey people saw him. Are you trying to say that FORTY PEOPLE couldn't help one man down, from below the fixed lines?
Keep in mind the rescue operation that took place there in (1996?).
The people who left him should not be on that, or any mountain if that is the attitude they take.

-Magnus


cosmin


May 25, 2006, 8:38 AM
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No excuse! :cry: Absolutely NO F#&$NG EXCUSE! :cry:

C


Partner j_ung


May 25, 2006, 8:40 AM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
even if he DID go solo, thats still no excuse for leaving him there. maybe he didnt count on help, but that doesn mean he didnt deserve it.

Do some more research. They did all that was possible to help Sharp. Hillary didn't have all the facts when reporters tracked him down and he's long railed against the commercialization and took that opportunity again. Overall, climbers acted very commendably regarding this situation.

But the stealing of supplies from high camps (when lives weren't at risk) is despicable.

http://www.mounteverest.net/news.php?id=2111

Here's something that appears to support your contention, at least in part. Certainly, it makes the point that Mark Inglis is less deserving of blame than we may at first believe. But I still stand by my contention that continuing on to the summit in this case, regardless of who you are and how you got there does NOT qualify as "doing all you can."


roy_hinkley_jr


May 25, 2006, 9:06 AM
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The knee jerk reactions from the hopelessly uninformed are typical. But wrong. Sharp could not have been saved. Period. Dawa did everything possible the day before to get him moving. When they got there the next morning, after a -40 night at 8500 meters, Sharp was frozen, non-responisve, and the only sign of life was eye flutter. Oxygen and TLC did nothing for him. Carrying him down is absolutely out of the question. No body has ever survived from that high who couldn't walk or crawl. Ever.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3678372a10,00.html

Congrats to Mark Inglis and all the others. They did the right thing.


cosmin


May 25, 2006, 9:12 AM
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In reply to:
The knee jerk reactions from the hopelessly uninformed are typical. But wrong. Sharp could not have been saved. Period. Dawa did everything possible the day before to get him moving the day before. When they got there the next morning, after a -40 night at 8500 meters, Sharp was frozen, non-responisve, and the only sign of life was eye flutter. Oxygen and TLC did nothing for him. Carrying him down is absolutely out of the question. No body has ever survived from that high who couldn't walk or crawl. Ever.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3678372a10,00.html

Congrats to Mark Inglis and all the others. They did the right thing.

Two names come to mind: Makalu Gau and Beck Weathers.

Am not sure congrats is the right word....

A Knee Jerk Hopelessly Uninformed


pinktricam


May 25, 2006, 9:18 AM
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Here's more that absolves Inglis. From The Australian:

In reply to:
Climbers dispute claim of desertion
D. D. McNicoll
26may06

THE climbers accused of leaving a stricken Englishman to die just below the summit of Mount Everest spent more than 90 minutes in a futile effort to revive him, putting their own safety at risk in the process, an Australian who reached the summit that day said last night.

Businessman Bob Killip, 52, from Kangaroo Valley in NSW, said British climber David Sharp was frozen from his knees and elbows down and had stripped off his jacket and gloves when they found him.
Mr Killip said that because Mr Sharp had climbed without Sherpa support, no one at the final camp on the mountain was aware he had failed to return on May 14.

"We climbed past him on the way up at about 2am on May 15 but we thought it was the body of a Polish climber who has been frozen there for years.

"We didn't know there was a climber missing."

Mr Killip said that later, as his group was headed back down from the summit, one of the climbers noticed signs of life.

"A bloke called Max, from Lebanon, saw he was alive and immediately started trying to give him oxygen," Mr Killip said.

"He wouldn't respond. He was frozen from the knees and elbows down and his jacket and gloves were off.

"Max spent 90 minutes with him but he eventually realised there was nothing we could do. He was devastated and he didn't want to leave him.

"Our Sherpas also gave him oxygen. They don't like death - and if they could have got him down, they would have.

"We were walking on ridges no wider than a row of bricks and if you slipped, you wouldn't stop for 3000 metres.

"To get someone down - even if it was your wife or your brother - would have been impossible."

Mr Killip, who was making his second attempt at scaling the world's highest mountain, said his expedition was already helping down two of its own climbers.

He said Mr Sharp, who was making his third attempt to climb Everest, had purchased infrastructure to take him to the base camp but had no one looking after him from then on.

"To blemish the reputations of 30 climbers by saying they didn't help is terrible," Mr Killip said, "We did everything we could."

Mr Killip's party included New Zealand double amputee Mark Inglis, the first man so handicapped to reach the summit.

Mr Sharp, 34, an engineer, had climbed alone, after leaving England on March 27 to travel to Everest's base camp. He had only two oxygen bottles, rather than the five carried by most climbers, and no Sherpa support.

Edmund Hillary, who was first to conquer Mount Everest 53 years ago, on Wednesday said the incident raised questions about the ethics of modern mountaineers. Sir Edmund said his expedition would never have left someone to die while they "plugged on towards the summit".

"I've got the utmost respect for Ed Hillary but someone has given him the wrong steer on this," Mr Killip said, "We wouldn't have abandoned one of our own party."

Mr Inglis arrived back in Christchurch yesterday to face criticism over the decision to leave Mr Sharp. Speaking to the media from a wheelchair, Mr Inglis said Mr Sharp did not have oxygen or proper gloves and that, at 8500m, it was extremely difficult to keep himself alive, let alone help anyone else.

It appears that there was little hope for Sharp. He chose his fate.


doubledare


May 25, 2006, 9:29 AM
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It's sad that humans really are that selfish, Everest will be there for centuries to come, David Sharp won't because of other's greed.

This is a good example of how people so easily misplace the blame. David Sharp won't be there because of his own greed--his own greed not only to reach the summit, but to reach it solo. 99% of what happened was the result of his own choices. The other climbers really played a small role in his fate.


colkurtz


May 25, 2006, 9:32 AM
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The knee jerk reactions from the hopelessly uninformed are typical. But wrong. Sharp could not have been saved. Period. Dawa did everything possible the day before to get him moving. When they got there the next morning, after a -40 night at 8500 meters, Sharp was frozen, non-responisve, and the only sign of life was eye flutter. Oxygen and TLC did nothing for him. Carrying him down is absolutely out of the question. No body has ever survived from that high who couldn't walk or crawl. Ever.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3678372a10,00.html

Congrats to Mark Inglis and all the others. They did the right thing.

clearly, you haven't done enough reading. if you care too, you might change your mind.

in any case, the reason (rightfully so) that inglis is getting heat is that he has put himself in the spotlight. he has a lot of money riding this and that's that. plain and simple.

oh and one more thing. what the hell is wrong with someone going solo? isn't that supposed to be stylish? i'm getting sick of old timers talking out of both sides of their mouths.


pinktricam


May 25, 2006, 9:37 AM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
Anyone would agree that "Human life is far more important than just getting to the top of a mountain" but that's a pretty simplistic interpretation of this situation.

The REAL question is, should the other climbers value David Sharp's like more than he valued it? I mean, he chose to climb solo which has many moral and ethical implications.

Does this extend to the dude soloing the crag I'm on ?

This is a poor comparison. Generally speaking, there are a great many emergency medical resources available at your local crag than at 26,000ft.


colkurtz


May 25, 2006, 9:38 AM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
It's sad that humans really are that selfish, Everest will be there for centuries to come, David Sharp won't because of other's greed.

This is a good example of how people so easily misplace the blame. David Sharp won't be there because of his own greed--his own greed not only to reach the summit, but to reach it solo. 99% of what happened was the result of his own choices. The other climbers really played a small role in his fate.

do you normally talk without knowing anything about the subject matter? greed? are you kidding?

greed can be applied to the people who steal supplies on the mountain.


i don't think anyone is blaming others for what you think. there is no blame. there is no action just a failure to act


doubledare


May 25, 2006, 9:40 AM
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it was minus 100 degrees 1000 feet below the summit in one of the harshest environments on Earth. Every person up there is struggling for survival. You give this person your oxygen, give them clothing, attempt to carry/rescue/evacuate the person you are risking your life. period. You take your gloves off you are risking your life--frostbite, them you can't hold a rope, and the dangers mount from there. They radioed for help and gave him oxygen. Do you people think they can just give him a fireman carry down from the hill?

They aren't just jaunting along past on their merry way to the summit. Everyone up there is trying to live/survive...not for us to judge on what they should have done.

My only point was that Sharp shouldn't go up there expecting assistance when his is climbing "solo" and that Sharp -- not the opther climbers--bears the responsibility of the outcome.


rodeoclown


May 25, 2006, 9:45 AM
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Is this the same Mark Inglis that was rescued after being stuck in an ice cave for 14 day? Hmm. . . I would say he is not paying it forward or back?

There are two sides to everystory then there is the truth. Which I am sure we will never know.


colkurtz


May 25, 2006, 9:48 AM
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In reply to:

My only point was that Sharp shouldn't go up there expecting assistance when his is climbing "solo" and that Sharp -- not the opther climbers--bears the responsibility of the outcome.

well it's kind of a lame point because it is so glaringly obvious

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