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socialclimber
May 27, 2006, 9:36 AM
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May 27, 2006 Reuters. An Australian mountaineer left for dead near the summit of Mt Everest has been found alive after spending a night out on the world's highest mountain, but remains severely ill with frostbite and altitude sickness. Lincoln Hall, 50, was initially reported to have died of cerebral edema, or swelling of the brain, as he descended the mountain, according to expedition leader Alexander Abramov, on internet site www.mounteverest.net. For the full story, www.tvnz.co.nz
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rocketsocks
May 27, 2006, 10:06 AM
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Bah! Not possible. In those conditions you're as good as dead, not even 30 people could help you even if they tried. It's best to just ignore such hopeless cases and continue on to the summit. Do you want to tell your friends you summited Everest or that you almost summited Everest and instead saved a man's life? Obviously you've got to go for the only thing that matters, the peak!
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socialclimber
May 27, 2006, 11:54 AM
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This extract from the story on Mount Everest.net
In reply to: ...Lincoln had reached the summit at 9 am in good speed and made an upbeat radio call from the top. But within an hour, Lincoln was moving slowly and losing his coordination. He descended to 8800 meters by 10 am, and 30 minutes later, Lincoln sat down in the snow, unable to move on his own. For 9 hours, three Sherpas tried to ferry Lincoln down, but managed only to lower him 100 meters. He lost consciousness after 6 hours and 3 hours later, the Sherpas declared Lincoln dead at 7:20 pm (local time) on May 25. After he reportedly had showed no signs of life for hours, Lincoln was left at the same point (second step 8700 m) where Thomas Weber had died 7 hours before. In darkness, their oxygen supplies exhausted and developing snow blindness, the Sherpas were ordered by the expedition leader Alex Abramov to descend and save their own lives. First Sherpas reach Lincoln next day at 11 am 12 hours later, May 26 at 7 am, climbers on summit push found Lincoln motionless in the snow, but showing weak signs of life. They gave him oxygen, tea and radioed for help. Abramov and most other expeditions immediately dispatched all available resources such as oxygen, a stretcher, and man power up the mountain to save Lincoln. 4 hours later, at 11 am, 3 Sherpas reached Lincoln at 8700 meters. They administered altitude drugs and fluids to the climber. Lincoln now began to talk, but his speech was slurry and he was very weak. The 3 Sherpas proceeded to immediately carry the climber 50 meters over a technical section until they were met by a second rescue team of 8 Sherpas. "We shall overcome" After a total of 11 hours of descent, and 23 hours since he had been left for dead, Lincoln and his 11 rescuers reached camp 1 at North Col (7000m) by 10 pm on May 26; Lincoln even managing the snow slope from 7500 m without assistance. Lincoln had by then spent close to 3 days in the death zone since his summit push on the early morning of May 24; and at least 12 hours of them without oxygen, exposed on Everest north ridge... The most tangible difference between this case and that of David Sharp seems to be that Hall received help only 12 hours after he was abandoned rather than 48 hours later for Sharp. I would be interested to know if the two took more or less the same route because the difficulty of the terrain that Sharp would have had to be carried over to be saved was one of the reasons given for not attempting a rescue. From what I can work out, Hall was a couple of hundred meters higher than Sharp when abandoned. Comparing the situations of different parties on Everest or any mountain is like comparing apples and oranges. There are too many variables to take into account. Lincoln Hall is very lucky to be alive and joins a small and elete group of second chance survivors
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ratmnerd
May 27, 2006, 9:59 PM
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i really don't think anyone here can make such firm moral judgements, even sir ed hillary. conditions change, and it all depends on how the climber is feeling themselves at the time as to whether or not they try and save someone. the only way to know exactly what to do is to actually be there at the time, and know exactly how the possible rescuer feels. how can you say for sure what you'd do, if you were up there, absolutely buggered after a hard ascent?
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roy_hinkley_jr
May 27, 2006, 10:29 PM
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no comment
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cosmin
May 28, 2006, 4:34 AM
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There are still true mountainers there afterall!
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overlord
May 28, 2006, 12:12 PM
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In reply to: i really don't think anyone here can make such firm moral judgements, even sir ed hillary. conditions change, and it all depends on how the climber is feeling themselves at the time as to whether or not they try and save someone. the only way to know exactly what to do is to actually be there at the time, and know exactly how the possible rescuer feels. how can you say for sure what you'd do, if you were up there, absolutely buggered after a hard ascent? i cant say what i WOULD do, but i can say what i WOULD TRY to do. i would definitely try to help him, ESPECIALLY if i had enough strength left to try for the summit. offcourse that doesnt mean that my help necessary would save the mountaineer, but i wouldve tried. and offcourse we can make such firm moral judgements. to leave someone to die and continue on to the summit is totally wrong in my book. it will always be, unless there were other circumstances that made reaching the summit imperative to the survival of the ones who abandoned the stranded (like a river of lava or a band of crazy natives, but thats not really likely on mt. everest). so, in my opinion it is the moral obligation of each climber/mountaineer/person to help another human in distress if by doing so he doesnt put hes life into unreasonable danger. and in this case, if you can continue on and even reach the summit, you clearly couldve done something. maybe you couldnt get him to a camp, but just a part of the way. and then maybe someone other would arrive and stop their summit attempt and help a bit more.
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ratmnerd
May 29, 2006, 3:08 AM
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yeah, i'm pretty much in agreement with you there. i just feel it's wrong to point the finger and make moral judgements about people without actually being there in the exact same position as them.
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mic
May 29, 2006, 8:14 PM
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I guess ROCKETSOCKS did spent way to much time in thin air, what damaged his brain.I can't belive that climbers think so stupid.If all of us would think that way, we all would be the kind Mr. Bush guy !!!!selfish.
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billl7
May 29, 2006, 8:26 PM
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In reply to: I guess ROCKETSOCKS did spent way to much time in thin air, what damaged his brain.I can't belive that climbers think so stupid.If all of us would think that way, we all would be the kind Mr. Bush guy !!!!selfish. Phooey on you. Think [sarcasm] insert what ROCKETSOCKS said .[/sarcasm]
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tradrenn
May 30, 2006, 3:02 AM
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In reply to: Bah! Not possible. In those conditions you're as good as dead, not even 30 people could help you even if they tried. It's best to just ignore such hopeless cases and continue on to the summit. Do you want to tell your friends you summited Everest or that you almost summited Everest and instead saved a man's life? Obviously you've got to go for the only thing that matters, the peak! I hope the rest of climbers don't think the way you do. Unless you are being sarcastic.
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jitterbugclimb
Jun 6, 2006, 11:40 PM
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In reply to: Bah! Not possible. In those conditions you're as good as dead, not even 30 people could help you even if they tried. It's best to just ignore such hopeless cases and continue on to the summit. Do you want to tell your friends you summited Everest or that you almost summited Everest and instead saved a man's life? Obviously you've got to go for the only thing that matters, the peak! It was obvious when I read this that he was saying it tongue in cheek. I can't believe how many people totally missed that. :lol:
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socialclimber
Jun 17, 2006, 1:53 AM
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..
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bdplayer
Jun 17, 2006, 5:11 AM
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Subtly is lost here.... No one would ever use sarcasm to make a point.
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