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rockitjeff
May 29, 2006, 8:32 PM
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i tend to chime in on these threads (they occur regulary enuff
i've done a few thousand pitches using the wren soloist. so that's my recommendation.
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billcoe_
Jun 2, 2006, 7:46 PM
Post #27 of 58
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In reply to: You would do well to follow Curt's advice and read as many of the similar threads on this board as you can before undertaking a solo top rope. By definition you are alone, with likely no one else around to help you if you screw up. Do your research first. There are many devices that will help you solo top rope. More importantly, however, are the techniques to do it safely. That's where scouring this board for information will really help you. Follow this link for a good overview of all the available devices: http://www.thebikezone.org.uk/therockzone/selfbelay.html Personally, I use a Wren Soloist. It is more expensive than the other devices mentioned in this thread, and does require a chest harness; but it was designed specifically for solo climbing, while all the others were not. It won't hurt your rope, feeds the rope through very smoothly, and because it sits above your harness, catches you instantly if you slip. Whatever device you choose, tie a backup knot !
Great advise!
I have a few devices I have used in the past. Never used a Cinch or a Grigri, but I know a few who do. For TR, which I seem to be doing most of the time, I like the Wren Soloist the best. I own the Silent Partner as well, but there's something about that cam on the Soloist I prefer. Don't like the recommended "direct rope to belay loop" connection though.
I have used a jumar for years and years, and everyone will tell you it turns out not to be recommended as the teeth on the cam can shread your rope. Not to be a hypocryte, I do and will continue to use it, use it at your own risk and keep your head. It worked out that I was scampering up a cliff with a single Jumar just 2 weeks ago, but, as I was topping out, on a wet 5.9 that I had just led a few days earlier, I was staring at about a 9 foot fall onto a 11 year old rope that had 2 core shots lower on it (so think beater rope), wondering it that damn thing would shred if I peeled. I was thinking exactly that as I cranked the moves in muddy shoes and dug fingers into the only wet, muddy holds around...... probably should buy a grigri for this very reason.
The other thing I still use to this day for TR, usually because some partner cancelled at the last min. and I have $300 worth of solo shit sitting back home in my basement laying there useless, it's very common when I don't want to freesolo or just go boulder, is I will just drop a rope down with a series of knots every 8-10 feet. Using 3 carabiners just climb and clip the knots as you climb.
Leading and using these damn devices seems scary to me, I've done it, generally don't like to do it, and would prefer to just start calling friends up for a belay or just freesolo or boulder and get rid of all the crap hanging off and around you when you are leading with these things.
That might be situational, given the climbing areas around me, so it might be way different for you.
Heres' the wren site:
http://www.wrenindustries.com/
Good luck.
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gunkiemike
Jun 2, 2006, 8:02 PM
Post #28 of 58
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In reply to: It worked out that I was scampering up a cliff with a single Jumar just 2 weeks ago, but, as I was topping out, on a wet 5.9 that I had just led a few days earlier, I was staring at about a 9 foot fall onto a 11 year old rope that had 2 core shots lower on it (so think beater rope), wondering it that damn thing would shred if I peeled.
Since there are no 9 foot falls TR'ing, that means you were leading. On a blown out rope. With a single Jumar.
Can I have your gear when you get killed?
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robdotcalm
Jun 2, 2006, 8:39 PM
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In reply to: I'm sure this has been posted before, but the Petzl Mini-Traxion is the best solo-toproping device made. On a slightly weighted rope it feeds by itself, unlike the Gri-Gri or Cinch. Plus, the manufacturer actually recommends using the Mini-Traxion for this purpose, unlike the Gri-Gri or Cinch. Personally, I use two, one on my belay loop, one on a half runner girth-hitched to my harness. To be even more bomber, consider a Stratos, Super-Safe, or any 10mm or larger rope. Petzl has info on the use that comes with the device. Hope this helps, have fun!
Question: Does the girth hitched Mini-Traxion ride above the Traxion on the belay loop? If so, do you have to keep pushing it up?
Cheers,
Rob.calm
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sketch
Jun 2, 2006, 8:50 PM
Post #30 of 58
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Personally, I prefer a Petzl handled ascender clipped off through the top hole for top-rope belaying. I use this occasionally when I want to get a bunch of quick laps in at the local wall. I've taken alot of falls on it and I feel comfortable with it. I've found that it helps to weight the bottom of the rope (usually just by tying off a few coils) to help the ascender seld-feed better.
Alot of people swear by Gri-gri's and I use them ocassionally but I recommend tying backup knots because the Gri-gri failed to lock up once on a self top-rope belay. I fell for about 15 feet before the thing finally locked up on me, fairly close to the ground. The fact that my rope was a slick, brand new 10.2mm probably had something to do with it. That said, a lot of soloists at the Red seem to prefer a modified Petzl Gri-gri. I haven't tried it and I don't recommend it. Just FYI. This thread on redriverclimbing.com shows how to modify your Gri-gri:
http://www.redriverclimbing.com/...hlight=modify+grigri
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radistrad
Jun 2, 2006, 9:07 PM
Post #31 of 58
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I have used the Ushba Basic ascender for years, putting well over 10,000 feet of climbing on it(many 1000's in Yosemite on hard climbs and following multi-pitch in parties of three), it worked great and I USED to highly recommend it. However one year ago I watched a friend deck while using the Ushba. It was partly his fault, but the device did not catch him regardless of him not tying a back up knot. Read about it here:
http://www.supertopo.com/..._id=125440#msg125440
I now use the Mini traxion and find that it feeds as smooth as the ushba but it does not need to "cam" into place for the device to work, it is far better.
I dont like the gri gri for self belay, I know that many folks use it-its just my opinion.
What ever device you decide to use you must back it up! the best way to back it up is to have two lines from the anchor and self belay on one and tie into the other. If the rock is short, tie into the middle of the rope and drop both ends to the ground if the rock is too tall for that use two ropes or tie in below your device (this has its own issues with the smooth feeding).
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hummerchine
Jun 3, 2006, 3:50 AM
Post #32 of 58
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robdotcalm:
girth hitched mini rides BELOW the mini on the belay loop. Neither needs pushing up the rope, slide on their own. I like the post by radistrad, wanted to comment that my backup is the second mini-traxion. I used to use an Ushba as my main device with the mini backup, but I could see that it was possible for the Ushba to slip...as he posts. For the ultimate in safety you could use two minis as I do and also use a backup knot. However, I just do not see any way that two mini-traxions are going to simultaneously fail. Ain't gonna happen. I've heard of people concerned about sheath damage, I use a Stratos rope. I did some testing with an 8mm rope, tied it off and did drop tests with a 25lb. weight. Grater than factor 2, since I was above the anchor and literally threw the weight down to accelerate it as fast as I could. I did this about 10 times with no sheath damage. Anyway, do whatever it takes to feel safe. For me, two minis on a Stratos (I do on occasion use other ropes) feels completely bombproof.
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radistrad
Jun 6, 2006, 1:30 AM
Post #33 of 58
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hummerchine, the bottom line is to back it up, and you are doing that. Climb safe.
-rob
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robdotcalm
Jun 8, 2006, 4:01 AM
Post #34 of 58
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In reply to: robdotcalm: girth hitched mini rides BELOW the mini on the belay loop. Neither needs pushing up the rope, slide on their own. I like the post by radistrad, wanted to comment that my backup is the second mini-traxion. I used to use an Ushba as my main device with the mini backup, but I could see that it was possible for the Ushba to slip...as he posts. For the ultimate in safety you could use two minis as I do and also use a backup knot. However, I just do not see any way that two mini-traxions are going to simultaneously fail. Ain't gonna happen. I've heard of people concerned about sheath damage, I use a Stratos rope. I did some testing with an 8mm rope, tied it off and did drop tests with a 25lb. weight. Grater than factor 2, since I was above the anchor and literally threw the weight down to accelerate it as fast as I could. I did this about 10 times with no sheath damage. Anyway, do whatever it takes to feel safe. For me, two minis on a Stratos (I do on occasion use other ropes) feels completely bombproof.
I tried out this method last week. It worked fine. I thank you. And I'm sure Petzl also thanks you for suggesting soloists use two mini-traxions.
Cheers,
Rob.calm
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hummerchine
Jun 8, 2006, 5:18 AM
Post #35 of 58
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Cool, Robdotcalm! Glad you liked it! Ya, I suppose Petzl likes it too...
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wildbillc
Jun 9, 2006, 4:49 PM
Post #36 of 58
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Actually the silent partner is not well suited for solo top rope, it does not self feed the slack. It is though the best choice (for me) in solo leading free climbs.
The Usba basic asender is nice but a little to free running (you can hold it in an unlocked position and zip to the ground), For me the Petzle mini traxion is the best, free running, no chest harness..
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kmc
Jun 9, 2006, 6:29 PM
Post #37 of 58
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I use the Ushba ascender as well. It is nice because you can uncam the device when it is not weighted and pull slack through, so you can downclimb. I tested it out by jumping on it, and tried to hold onto the device, and it still locked up. I supposed it is possible to hold it open while it is being weighted, but it would be very difficult. Another nice thing is that it does not have teeth like other ascenders, do it cant shred your rope.
I have never had any problems with it, but I have not put a ton of mileage on it.
~Kevin
Forgot to mention, if the climb is less than half a rope length, I will back it up by tying a serios of knots on the end I am not climbing on. I keep 2- 2foot slings girth hitched to my harness and clip each not as I reach it, and then unclip the previous knot.
I know there are many ways to TR solo, this is just one method that works well for me. It may not be as convenient to lower if you were using a Gri-Gri, but you do not have to pull the rope through as you are climbing.
~Kevin
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shockabuku
Jun 23, 2006, 11:27 PM
Post #38 of 58
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I use the Petzl Microcender which is designed for the purpose; even comes with instructions from Petzl. I don't think the Mini-Traxion is. I feel uncomfortable with those shredding teeth that they put on the ascenders for something that I know I'll fall onto (however short a fall it might be) with my rope. I only use it for top rope soloing however, not general solo use. The Microcender has a cam with blunt bars that clamp onto the rope. I've used it for about a year and half. The only issue I have with it is that sometimes the connection point tends to rotate away from the business end of my carabiner and put it in a potential position for cross-loading. This can be solved with a little tape. You can't effectively lower with this device however.
Climb safe.
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hummerchine
Jun 26, 2006, 3:25 AM
Post #39 of 58
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shockabuku:
I used to use the Microcender, and it does indeed work well. The Mini-Traxion does indeed come with instruction for use as a solo-toprope device. I now prefer it over the Microcender BECAUSE of the teeth. I just don't see any possible way that it could slip, and I have had zero issues with any rope shredding. Since you like the Microcender, I would strongly recommend backing it up with a Mini-Traxion. That way you would be way safer, and the only way you would have to worry about loading the teeth you mention would be if the Microcender failed...in which case I suspect you would not care so much! Good luck...
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esp71
Jun 29, 2006, 2:05 AM
Post #40 of 58
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Yates Rocker!
Yates Rocker!
Yates Rocker!
Yates Rocker!
It was designed for this very purpose, has no teeth to tear up your rope and it works like a damn charm. I've never fallen more than 6 inches before the cam engaged, and it's easy to escape from once you are ready. The rope feeds smoothly under it's own weight after you get up about 5-6 feet. Check out the link that was posted before. The test results of all the various devices will raise your eyebrows.
always tie a backup knot
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shockabuku
Jul 2, 2006, 12:09 AM
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hummerchine
Thanks for the advice. I tie back-up knots sporadically since it's a little difficult to do all the time; this might give me a little more peace of mind. You're right, at that point I wouldn't really care anymore.
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eric_chan
Jul 2, 2006, 3:38 AM
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atc
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robbovius
Jul 6, 2006, 4:46 PM
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I also own a Cinch...
In reply to: [the one thing i dont use it for is belaying lead climbers, so i woudln't know whether sportos will dig it.
this past weekend for the first time I used it to belay a trad leader, and found it easy to both feed rope and keep the brake side covered, and when the leader fell, it cammed and caught securely...
I like the thing, I use it mostly for rope-soloing (I use a chest harness, and hold the cinch vertically oriented with a loop of 5mm tech cord thru the axle hole...seems like it was designed for just such an application...held vertically, the rope feeds automatically as you climb, it's pretty slick.) and it's taken the place of my grigri in my main climbing pack.
the release lever could be a little longer...
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flipnfall
Jul 6, 2006, 5:02 PM
Post #45 of 58
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Wow! I'm starting to feel old. I still climb with a clunky old Soloist. My shoes are even old (5.10 Lynx and UFOs resoled about 5 billion times).
:shock:
I'm not recommending the Soloist, just commenting how behind the times I am on that one.
GT
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dm5
Sep 4, 2006, 9:44 AM
Post #46 of 58
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I wrote a short example of solo toproping.
http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/turkia/climbing/
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thetroutscout
Sep 4, 2006, 11:42 AM
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That being your first post doesn't instill very much confidence. Neither does your opinion on the matter. You are entitled to your opinion but don't go writing a guide that beginners are going to read and think is the law. If you are only going to present one idea on the subject, it could at least be something that is: Easy to learn/read, tried and tested by the gear manufacturer who's gear you're claiming to know more about, and most of all the first rule of solo TR - No Slack In the System! I don't get how people can climb on such system's were any slack is introduced. It's one thing to practice those bad habits on your own, but to teach them... Just because you use some way, someone invented, and haven't died yet doesn't mean someone with less experience and luck won't.
^^ike
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dm5
Sep 4, 2006, 12:37 PM
Post #48 of 58
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In reply to: most of all the first rule of solo TR - No Slack In the System!
I don't see where the slack in my system that you refer to is. Maybe you should at least read the things that you criticize.
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dm5
Sep 4, 2006, 1:46 PM
Post #49 of 58
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I still don't see where the slack is. The Mini-Traxion is attached to the belay loop of a sitting harness with a carabiner. Maximum slack is about one feet. The rope is tight at all times. I don't see how you could create any less slack without using a chest harness. I have been using this system with climbing instructors. The description was read by one of them before posting. As far as I can see the information is quite compatible with the information that I have seen in this forum. I would have to assume that you did not even read my description. If you have a better system, feel free to inform me.
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billcoe_
Sep 4, 2006, 3:37 PM
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In reply to: I have used a jumar for years and years, and everyone will tell you it turns out not to be recommended as the teeth on the cam can shread your rope. Not to be a hypocrite, I do and will continue to use it, use it at your own risk and keep your head. It worked out that I was scampering up a cliff with a single Jumar just 2 weeks ago, but, as I was topping out, on a wet 5.9 that I had just led a few days earlier, I was staring at about a 9 foot fall onto a 11 year old rope that had 2 core shots lower on it (so think beater rope), wondering it that damn thing would shred if I peeled. I was thinking exactly that as I cranked the moves in muddy shoes and dug fingers into the only wet, muddy holds around...... probably should buy a grigri for this very reason.
In reply to: Since there are no 9 foot falls TR'ing, that means you were leading. On a blown out rope. With a single Jumar.
Geeze, I'd already forgotten all about this until I read this on RC.com. Hadn't realized I'd even replied on the thread till I read it!
Gunkiemike, what do you call it when the rope is anchored at the top of a cliff, and you cannot grab the jumar and slide it up the rope, but you can make a grab to the next hold and you get quite a bit above the slack in your jumar before you get to a stance where you can pull the rope through, with the top of the rope still anchored above you? Sure there is quite the little loop of rope below your feet, and the fall would be a screamer no doubt, but it's still toproping no?
In reply to: Can I have your gear when you get killed?
No.
I'm probably more likely to get the chop free soloing, if you step up and ask my loved ones nicely at the funeral, and tell a good story about me to them, you can have my ratty old chalkbag. The bag comes with a 25+ some year old bolt inside of it that pulled out under my seconds bodyweight on the East Buttress of Middle Cathedral in Yos. (1st bolt of the bolt ladder). Maybe you can donate it to Ken Yaeger for the Yosemite museum and take a $10,000 dollar write off, (it's priceless you know, probably drilled by Harding himself) :lol:
So if you want that chalkbag you'd better show up over here and start giving some belays.
Update: now have 2 brand new ropes, retired the double core shot one, AND gave up some scratch for a Faders Sum (instead of a Gri Gri.) Yes, I showed up with Healyje and some buddies to help clean off Beacon Rock pre-climbing opening -there was sh*tloads of loose rock we tossed off of there to try and make it safe, anyway, about everyone of these dudes had a grigri and were just dropping down a single line and stopping and moving around so effortlessly, I had my Jumar and an ATC, and it became obvious that a Gri Gri-Sum-Cinch would have huge value in these situations. So I got the Sum.
BTW, Wildbillc sounds like he's got a good grasp as do several others here. I think whatever you choose to go with, learn it well and stay within the boundries of your skill level till you have a good grasp of the intracacies of the device.
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