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newstarr
Jun 28, 2006, 4:05 AM
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WE ARE GOING TO SOUTH LAKE TAHOE THIS WEEKEND AND WANT TO TAKE MY 4 KIDS 10, 6, 4, & 3 TR CLIMBING. THIS IS OUR FIRST TIME OUTDOORS AS A FAMILY. I TR IN COLLEGE BUT NEVER LEAD. I HAVE CHECKED OUT A TON OF BOOKS AND SEARCHED THE WEB WITH NO AVAIL TO PLACES TO TAKE THEM WITH ANCHORS ALREADY IN PLACE. DO THESE OUTDOOR SITES HAVE 3 POINTS? WE ARE GOING TO DONNER AT THE END OF JULY AND YELLOWSTONE/ GRAND TETONS IN AUGUST. WE WOULD LOVE TO TAKE THEM CLIMBING IN ALL LOCATIONS. WE HAVE CLIMBED AT SCHOOL ROCK IN DONNER WITH THEM BEFORE AND WOULD LIKE SOME CLIMBS AROUND THIS LEVEL. THEN WHEN WE ARE NOT ON VACATION I WOULD LIKE TO TAKE THEM TO MT. DIABLO, RIVER GORGE AND SO ON. IF THERE IS A REALLY DETAILED BOOK SOMEONE COULD RECOMMEND OF IF SOMEONE IS VERY DETAILED AND COULD GIVE ME IDEAS THAT WOULD BE GREAT! DETAILED EXAMPLE: DRIVE HERE, PARK HERE, CLIMB HERE, ANCHOR IN HERE, RAPPEL DOWN, HOOK KIDS IN, AND CLIMB!
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craftedpacket
Jun 28, 2006, 5:18 AM
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This must be a troll
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newstarr
Jun 28, 2006, 5:32 AM
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Troll? If you are trying to insult me try a different adjective. Or look up the meaning of troll. I am looking for some honest informative advice, that you obviously can not give!
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sbaclimber
Jun 28, 2006, 5:44 AM
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In reply to: Troll? If you are trying to insult me try a different adjective. Or look up the meaning of troll. I am looking for some honest informative advice, that you obviously can not give! Ah, found the caps-lock key I see! Sorry, can't give you 'honest informative advice' regarding your question, but I can give you some 'honest informative advice' about posting on RC.com: 1) do not post in all caps 2) do a search (this you claim to have sort have done....) 3) do not appear to be someone who will do something stupid (like go try to set up a TR anchor without knowing how to do it properly) 4) learn some of the lingo before takin offense (e.g. TROLL has nothing to do with your appearance or odor) 5) above all, do not look for 'honest informative advice' on this website!! You are just setting yourself up for a big dissapointment....
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paulbehee
Jun 28, 2006, 6:56 AM
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In reply to: 5) above all, do not look for 'honest informative advice' on this website!! You are just setting yourself up for a big dissapointment.... Obviously!!!... a Very small percentage of everyone on this site actually knows ANYthing about climbing! Just TOOLs making stuff up!
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reg
Jun 28, 2006, 11:44 AM
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ok ok - troll or not - i will respond. there are many who will tell you not to set up anchors while reading an instruction manual - myself included - so here's a link to some guides/shops in the S. lake tahoe area. get a guide for a day then you can relax and enjoy the day with you kids tellin all those war stories and everybody gets to go home at the end of the day with smiles on their faces. http://www.supertopo.com/...e.html#gearandguides
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newstarr
Jun 28, 2006, 3:10 PM
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I have used a guide, hence the climbing of school rock Donner. He was extremely good and is who help me put together the gear to now take my kids on my own. Now all I wanted to know is where some nice spots are and what I am facing to place proper anchors in those locations. If there really aren't people with this knowledge, then I am sure I will manage on my own. Obviously the multitudes of people on this site are still alive despite their ignorance or maybe they never actually get out there and climb, they just sit around on the Internet insulting people.
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reg
Jun 28, 2006, 3:36 PM
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In reply to: I have used a guide, hence the climbing of school rock Donner. He was extremely good and is who help me put together the gear to now take my kids on my own. oh - sooooo....., you have "the gear" eh? and you now want some one to tell you what kind(s) of situation(s) you may encounter at these places? like: "put sling "A" on tree "B" ? too simple my friend - don't work like that. with your "gear" - whatever that is - you should have the requisite knowledge to assess the situation and create proper anchors. get it first! In reply to: If there really aren't people with this knowledge, then I am sure I will manage on my own. indeed - there are folks from all over the world reading your smear - with a wealth of knowledge to impart. In reply to: Obviously the multitudes of people on this site are still alive despite their ignorance you may be one of them soon.
In reply to: or maybe they never actually get out there and climb, they just sit around on the Internet insulting people. sounds.........familar
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zoanyway
Jun 28, 2006, 6:11 PM
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I'm not familiar with the area(s) you're visiting, so can't give you specific advice regarding that. However there are a few other things I think I can address. Note that I am trying to help you. After all, it is possible to get terrific advice on RC.com. You just have to know how to ask. First, and just to get it out of the way - the situation with being called a 'troll':
In reply to: In Internet terminology, a troll is someone who comes into an established community such as an online discussion forum, and posts inflammatory, rude, repetitive or offensive messages designed intentionally to annoy and antagonize the existing members or disrupt the flow of discussion. -Wikipedia The all-caps mode of your original post (OP) definitely contributed to the (circumstantial) evidence. Spend much time reading any internet forum (a very good idea before making your first post) and you'll soon figure out how the community behaves toward brash or ignorant (not a bad word or insult!) newcomers, and how to avoid that situation. Folks are especially scared of you killing your kids. Believe it. Think about it. It's a little hard to swallow the idea of a newbie putting his/her entire progeny up on his/her very first unguided top-rope anchors. A little humility would help soften the shock... NOW: regarding top-roping with your kids. The other posts have been trying to make this point: setting up a top-rope is rarely A+B+C=FAMILYFUN! Sometimes, yes - you'll run into fresh, strong, 3-bolt anchors conveniently arrayed across the top of a walk-up/down crag. These are almost always on really easy, beginner friendly walls - and every now and then on REALLY, REALLY HARD routes. Which is obviously NOT what you're looking for. More often, a particularly big boulder or small crag will be labelled "easily top-roped" in the guidebook. That means it's relatively easy to walk up to the top, and there are (probably) plentiful anchors (natural, bolts, or both) when you get there. Look for those heart-warming keywords in your guidebooks! (and I highly recommend you buy a couple of guidebooks for your favorite areas). Some guidebooks will even say something like "if you want to top-rope, bring some 50-foot webbing to sling the boulder at the top, and a couple of 1.5-2" cams for backup". But honestly, that's pretty rare. Lastly: top-roping sport routes. This is the single most reliable way to take a group out top-roping, simply because there are a LOT of sport routes to choose from in most areas, and you can usually find a few within the range of your group. However there are a handful of community rules regarding this practice! Ignore them at your (emotional and/or physical) peril! Obviously, you or someone in your group needs to be capable of leading the routes you intend to top-rope, AND know how to deal with the anchors when you're done. With that in mind, here are the rules: 1. Be courteous to other climbers who may want to lead the route - don't monopolize it! This is especially aggravating if it's the easy first pitch of a harder multi-pitch route. If another group wants to run up it once or twice real quick - pull your rope and let them! Make friends, ask about other good spots in the area, observe their technique, learn, grow. :-) 2. Do NOT directly thread the anchors with your rope and proceed to "yo-yo" your entire party on top-rope. This wears out the hard-to-replace anchors FAST, as your toprope is essentially 50 feet of sandpaper. Use your own quickdraws or (locking) carabiners. 3. KNOW how to deal with the anchors and pull your rope when you're done and ready to pull your rope. This is the only time it's permissible to directly thread the anchors. And this is surely the most dangerous part of the whole exercise: if you don't know how to do this (or it doesn't make obvious sense), skip the sport routes altogether and look for walk-ups. My last piece of advice regarding travelling and discovering new crags: contact people personally. You can find out who has recently updated the crag info here, and PM (private message) them with your questions. And you can call outfitters in the area(s) you're visiting and ask for recommendations on crags and guidebooks. Of course it'd be proper to visit and patronize the shop when you're there, or over the phone (buy the guidebook and t-shirt from them). I hope that's helpful, but I'm sure I didn't cover everything. Hopefully others will chime in with more or better advice. Please be very, VERY careful out there. -Lorenzo
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boku
Jun 28, 2006, 7:13 PM
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http://www.supertopo.com/.../southlaketahoe.html http://www.rockclimbing.com/...n.php?SectionID=3285 Get there early, or prepare to park a half-mile away. The creek looks refreshing, but goes over a deadly tall waterfall just after it crosses under the highway. Edit add:
In reply to: DETAILED EXAMPLE: DRIVE HERE, PARK HERE, CLIMB HERE, ANCHOR IN HERE, RAPPEL DOWN, HOOK KIDS IN, AND CLIMB! Almost all that stuff is in both the Falcon and SuperTopo guides. The ST is nice because you just print out the pages you need and stuff them in your pocket. The part about how and where to anchor, that's the sort of thing where asking general questions about is often taken as a sign you don't know enough of the basic principles to be trusted with general answers. Just so you know. Personally, I recommend the Long book "Rock Climbing Anchors."
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alpie
Jun 28, 2006, 8:43 PM
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Thank you for a straight up response to this poor parent. Personally it seems like a few forum users are ragging it today... And I think that statement just nailed me some personal harassment. I do not know anything of where you are going, but listen to zoanyway... At this point I would like to share my disgust with the arrogance of RC members uninterested in properly informing people. had this women not gotten some kind of positive response, she would may have taken off, ill informed and gotten herself or her children hurt. I think this could be much our fault. I feel it is our responsibility as climbers to educate and provide necessary advise to ensure climbing popularity grows, safely. We all started somewhere.
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sbaclimber
Jun 28, 2006, 9:12 PM
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In reply to: had this women not gotten some kind of positive response, she would may have taken off, ill informed and gotten herself or her children hurt. :shock: :shock: :shock: Holy psychic ability batman!! I am fairly sure the OP never mentioned his/her sex. Edit: oh, right, sorry, it is my responsibility to make someone who doesn't display even the most basic competence feel all warm and fuzzy :roll: Yes, we did all start somewhere, but most of us didn't learn how to climb by asking complete strangers on the internet for advice (to be fair though, some of us are still lucky to be alive and in one piece today). An open online forum is a good place to gather extra information about something.......not expert advice! If you think it is, then you are just begging to go hurt or kill yourself (apparently there are forums for that very purpose).
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climbsomething
Jun 28, 2006, 9:15 PM
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Anybody who thinks the responses in this thread were harsh is about as tender and thin-skinned as an overboiled hot dog. Trust me, they could have been much worse.
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craftedpacket
Jun 28, 2006, 9:20 PM
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In reply to: DETAILED EXAMPLE: DRIVE HERE, PARK HERE, CLIMB HERE, ANCHOR IN HERE, RAPPEL DOWN, HOOK KIDS IN, AND CLIMB! Sorry for the troll remark...but originally found it hard to believe the statement above was serious.
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slablizard
Jun 28, 2006, 9:34 PM
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Hello! Boku's advice is good, 90 foot wall is a nice place, but you still have to be able to set up the anchors, that means you have to have at least 3 X 6 ft slings 5 locking biners ( 3 for the bolts and 2 for the rope) and be comfortable "working" on the edge of the cliff (do that ANCHORED with one of the slings to a bolt). ANd you need a 60mt rope. Best thing would be to go with someone more experienced , see how he/she does and practice. Even in a simple TR there are many things that can go wrong. Look for a partner with kids here or at a climbing gym...
In reply to: I have used a guide, hence the climbing of school rock Donner. He was extremely good and is who help me put together the gear to now take my kids on my own. Now all I wanted to know is where some nice spots are and what I am facing to place proper anchors in those locations. If there really aren't people with this knowledge, then I am sure I will manage on my own. Obviously the multitudes of people on this site are still alive despite their ignorance or maybe they never actually get out there and climb, they just sit around on the Internet insulting people.
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newstarr
Jun 28, 2006, 10:03 PM
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Thank you for the honest advice. I do not want to kill all of my children in one clean sweep or injure them. I have a 60m rope, 7 locking biners, helmets, crash pad, full body children's harness, and an array of sizes in webbing that the guide picked out. he also suggested a pulley. I think I will try to find a guide to take us out with my new "gear" and show me exactly how to use it. Many of you have been extremely helpful. Thank you!!! I don't normally use forums but thanks for the heads up about caps, I am a military brat and I actually write in all caps.
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zoanyway
Jun 28, 2006, 10:40 PM
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In reply to: he also suggested a pulley. Oh dear. Oh dear, dear, dear. May the forum demons have mercy upon the soul of this "guide". Or not. Do a quick search for "toprope" and "pulley" and you will have on your hands some nice, fresh, meaty flamefests.
In reply to: I don't normally use forums but thanks for the heads up about caps, I am a military brat and I actually write in all caps. Having spent plenty of time on various forums, I've come to assume this about the all-caps folks: They're either really old, military, mainframe programmers, or actually screaming. Or all four. ;-) Sounds like you're probably well equipped for bolted top-ropes. And it sounds like there's some nice ones up there waiting for you. Just make sure you're comfortable handling and knotting the webbing and slings, and freakishly obsessive-compulsive about locking the biners, dressing and setting the knots, doubling-back buckles, etc, etc. It's your kids' lives in your hands, after all. A helmet and crashpad will not save anyone from a 50m deck fall. -Lorenzo
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sbaclimber
Jun 28, 2006, 11:00 PM
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In reply to: A helmet and crashpad will not save anyone from a 50m deck fall. Isn't that going to be a little hard to accomplish with only a 60m rope (with a TR setup)? :?
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zoanyway
Jun 28, 2006, 11:11 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: A helmet and crashpad will not save anyone from a 50m deck fall. Isn't that going to be a little hard to accomplish with only a 60m rope (with a TR setup)? :? Very correct and devilishly clever of you to point that out! So are you suggesting that a 25-30m deck out will be okay? Of course not. Will you now proceed to edit your post 3 or 4 times before settling on what you really want to say? You've been so helpful so far. :roll: -Lorenzo
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sbaclimber
Jun 28, 2006, 11:19 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: A helmet and crashpad will not save anyone from a 50m deck fall. Isn't that going to be a little hard to accomplish with only a 60m rope (with a TR setup)? :? Very correct and devilishly clever of you to point that out! So are you suggesting that a 25-30m deck out will be okay? Of course not. Will you now proceed to edit your post 3 or 4 times before settling on what you really want to say? You've been so helpful so far. :roll: -Lorenzo Nope, only needed to edit it twice to put the bold around your 50m, that's exactly what I wanted to say. You were expecting me to be helpful??? What would ever give you that impression? Edited 4x to make you feel better :D
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zoanyway
Jun 28, 2006, 11:46 PM
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In reply to: Edited 4x to make you feel better :D TOTALLY RAD DUDE! MOST EXCELLENT! Mmm. My best transplant-imitating-a-California-native impression, poor as it may be. 8^) Not too sure how else to express myself in this situation, in this medium... I'm confident that in-person, we'd be cool. Like "It's all good, bro" etc. -Zo
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sbaclimber
Jun 28, 2006, 11:51 PM
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In reply to: I'm confident that in-person, we'd be cool. Like "It's all good, bro" etc. As far as I am concerned, we are cool here too. I am not trying to piss you off....even if that is what I have accomplished.
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corpse
Jun 29, 2006, 3:22 AM
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Back on topic a little... The reason people are hard on the n00b, is they should be. Perhaps an hour or 2 re-reading thru accidents forums is in order? Or the mountaineering accidents book.. Either way - it seems that 25-50% of climbing related deaths are preventable, like ensuring knots are good, anchors bomber, etc... Of those preventable deaths, how many are due to good old fashion ignorance?? Ya know, where someone *thought* they knew what they were doing until they got in over their head. Over confidence early in the game can lead to death.. And when you mention taking 4 kids on a climbing trip, with many "warning signs" indicating a lack of experience, as a climbing community, we should speak out and speak up (perhaps with a little less troll-calling)... For what it's worth - after a weekend with a good guide, I knew I wasn't ready to set up top ropes for myself or my kids. After that weekend, I used the information from the guide as my "guide" of stuff I need to learn and master.
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