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caughtinside
Jun 28, 2006, 10:29 PM
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Ok, so I was thinking about some of fracture's comments regarding falling, and how it is unreasonable to fear safe falls.
This sometimes holds true for me, and sometimes it doesn't.
And when I'm sketched, the first thing I think of is my belay. It isn't always objective hazards like a ledge, knob, etc, it's : who is down there belaying me, and more importantly, are they using a grigri?
It's true, I am grigri dependent!
My belayers are all bomber, although I do have to be aware when a lighter belayer, (often female, often attractive) is making the catch, because I'll pull them up, and drop a few more feet.
Lately I've been climbing a lot with my trad pals. But sometimes there's even bolted climbs in trad areas! Crazy, I know. And these trad pals invariably don't use the grigri, as is their wont.
But, when I'm faced with a move that I'm not confident of sticking, I have the thought 'shit, that isn't a grigri down there.' Coming from the school of climbing where I dog everything hard, fall a lot, and tram up the rope, I have really come to despise climbing sport w/o a grigri.
Gotta come to grips with it, I guess.
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skeletos
Jun 28, 2006, 11:57 PM
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I haven't used a grigri in a long time up until two days ago. I was belaying a buddy on a 11b sport climb. He had attempted it before, but got stuck at a roof. This time he made it over the roof and was going to clip the next bolt only my grigri locked up on me when I went to give him rope and I was not able to give him slack. I was so flustered that I didn't even think of pulling down the black lever, so I fumbled around trying to get the damn thing to unlock. After just about pulling him off of the rock and hearing him yell out to me, "give me some fucking slack!", I was able to finally get enough slack out so he could clip. Good thing he is a good friend and we could both laugh at it after the fact. I will never use a grigri to belay a lead again. Live and learn I guess.
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caughtinside
Jun 29, 2006, 12:01 AM
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In reply to: Live and learn I guess.
Yeah. Right. Live and learn... to use a grigri correctly?
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jumpingrock
Jun 29, 2006, 12:17 AM
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It's not the device that matters. It's the belayer. People fuck up with a gri gri just as often as people fuck up with a tube device.
Follow the same rules you used to get comfortable with a gri-gri. Take a few small controlled falls, then start taking bigger falls. Just make sure your belayer is competant.
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happybob
Jun 29, 2006, 12:38 AM
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I'm with skeletos on this one. If it ain't broke, dint fix it I say and my ATC works perfectly fine. If my belayer isn't competent enough to catch me with an ATC I'm fucked anyway. Besides, who wants to pay $80 for a GriGri?
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zeke_sf
Jun 29, 2006, 12:39 AM
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I've recently run into a guy who ONLY wants to be sport belayed with a gri gri. The guy I've been climbing with most recently pretty much likes only ATCs. Gri gris sound safe, but I've heard stories.... The thing that gets me is I've seen the most cavalier belays by people using gri gris. Calling something idiot-proof sounds like a challenge to some, I guess. I say get some REALLY old guy with a swami belt to give you a hip belay while you sport clip (I mean, "climb"--damn you Fracture!). You won't give a damn what device you're belayed with after that :lol: !
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kriso9tails
Jun 29, 2006, 1:26 AM
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In reply to: My belayers are all bomber, although I do have to be aware when a lighter belayer, (often female, often attractive) is making the catch, because I'll pull them up, and drop a few more feet.
Shouldn't be the case. I've belayed climbers who were a solid ninety pounds heavier than me on an atc. At 160 lbs, that's more than 50% of my body weight, and I've never had trouble belaying them. In fact, it's almost easier, because I pretty much automatically give a dynamic belay. I don't let them fall any farther than I would someone my own weight when they fall. That being said, such a weight difference isn't ideal, but it's not typically as big of a problem as people make it out to be.
Even if you do get dropped a few feet more, it shouldn't be a big deal. Unless you're decking out or smacking into a roof/ ledge/ arete etc. it's far better to fall a few extra feet than to be short-roped. Most of the injuries I've seen are from short-roping.
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machino
Jun 29, 2006, 1:27 AM
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In reply to: I say get some REALLY old guy with a swami belt to give you a hip belay while you sport clip (I mean, "climb"--damn you Fracture!). You won't give a damn what device you're belayed with after that :lol: !
Agreed. You need to start climbing and not worrying about falling. Dogging, tramming, pulling on the rope is not climbing. Your belayers got you, send the damn route.
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deltav
Jun 29, 2006, 1:42 AM
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Just goes to show that just because you have 4500 posts on RC.com, you really don't know a damn thing about climbing. GriGri were never really meant for lead belay anyway. And as stated before, what do you think they did before grigri's?
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j_ung
Jun 29, 2006, 1:47 AM
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Soloed?
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shanz
Jun 29, 2006, 1:54 AM
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In reply to: Just goes to show that just because you have 4500 posts on RC.com, you really don't know a damn thing about climbing. GriGri were never really meant for lead belay anyway. And as stated before, what do you think they did before grigri's?
Well said
First of all thats why i there are a handfull of people on this site i actually would take advice from since ya have that many posts and come up with this turd of a post .. Second of all i use a tube style devide i prefer the trango jaws but the atc xp is nice along with several other similar styles. and so does my fiance who i outweigh by about 50 pounds and have never had a problem .. Third of all if you are worried about your belayer when youa re sketched you need to do some more reading of valuable info (such as The Rock warriors way) rather that to get info from here.
Ok maybe i was a bit harsh but can you blame me i spend 50 hours a week stuck in a cube got nothing better to do
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j_ung
Jun 29, 2006, 1:55 AM
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:lol:
Seriously though, Dave, you gotta get over it. I don't normally use a Gri-gri, and though I could give you a good belay with a Gri-gri, I can give you a great belay with my run-of-the-mill, garden-variety, tube-style, bucket-esque thingy. 'Course, I'm like three quarters traddie and only one quarter sport-o. (My grandmother on my mom's side was a sportclimber. We don't talk about her much.)
How do you feel about Cinches? Do only Gri-gris give you piece of mind or will any autolocker do?
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veganboyjosh
Jun 29, 2006, 2:03 AM
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as with any link in the proverbial protection chain (harness, knot, rope, anchor/bolts/pro, belayer/device, previous anchor, etc...) i have a series of checks i perform on each, so that i know i can think about what i need to be thinking about when i get on the sharp end.
do i sketch out when run out/get to crux? sure. but i remind myself of the procedure we went thru before i left the ground/belay, that included knots, harness buckles, etc...
and i know who's belaying me before i start. if it's someone i'mma be sketched about, i won't push the level of the climb.
it is worth it to me to back off for the moment, and stick with something within my abilities, if i'm at all worried about the belayer. the rock's not going anywhere.
sketching about the belayer(or any one link in the chain) is to be done before you're relying on that link to keep you from decking.
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shanz
Jun 29, 2006, 2:06 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: Third of all if you are worried about your belayer when youa re sketched you need to do some more reading of valuable info (such as The Rock warriors way) rather that to get info from here. 'Cause everybody knows you can't find any such info on Rockclimbing.com. I mean it's not like you could have a conversation with the author or anything. :P :P
Well met ill go back to sleep now - Zzzzzzz......
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rockguide
Jun 29, 2006, 3:09 AM
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In reply to: Just goes to show that just because you have 4500 posts on RC.com, you really don't know a damn thing about climbing. GriGri were never really meant for lead belay anyway. And as stated before, what do you think they did before grigri's?
Gri gris were designed for lead belaying and are acceptable.
I usually prefer belaying with a tube, but can use a gri gri as well. If the leader prefers it, I will switch devices. Whatever makes the leader feel confident.
I have caught leaderfalls and been caught using just about anything from - body belays through Gri gris. Tools are just tools. People are the main thing.
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pro_alien
Jun 29, 2006, 2:38 PM
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There are good uses for Grigris - toproping, inexperienced belayers and self belay for route setting come to mind. For lead climbing, the Grigri doesn't work for me. An ATC or B52 will feed rope more smoothly, can handle double ropes, can be used for rappelling (no need to schleep an extra rappel device), and is lighter and cheaper to boot. The harder catch of the Grigri will also put greater stress on the bolts. YMMV.
Pascal
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skeletos
Jun 29, 2006, 2:47 PM
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caughtinside wrote
Yeah. Right. Live and learn... to use a grigri correctly?
OK caughtinside. Teach me. When I need to give a lot of slack quick with a grigri, how do I do it without getting it to lock up.
Either way, I know how to use a tubular belay device, because I have been using them for years, so I will stick with them. Isn't that safer than using a device that I'm not comfortable with?
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itsmegz8321
Jun 29, 2006, 3:24 PM
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First of all, if you are afraid of your belayer not weighing enough, there is a thing called anchoring. Any time I belay someone more than 50 lbs over my own weight (which isnt hard to find) I anchor to a tree or something else that's not going anywhere.
Secondly, I refuse to use a grigri when belaying, and there has never been a time that I haven't immediately caught a fall, even if I am flying 5 feet off the ground because of the difference in weight. Trust your belayer! :D
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olib
Jun 29, 2006, 4:17 PM
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In reply to: OK caughtinside. Teach me. When I need to give a lot of slack quick with a grigri, how do I do it without getting it to lock up.
See the #1 "similar topic" by rockprodigy: GriGri slacking method from 8a.nu
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jaybro
Jun 29, 2006, 4:23 PM
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Know your belayer, and know what she is comfortable with. I've only climbed for 43 years but, I almost never lead belay with a grigri. Exceptions are for long aid pitches and threatening objectives hazards that can conk the belayer and, possibly, serious hangfests..
I belay more effectively with an atc, etc, or even a hip belay. I would feel I was letting the leader down if I belayed with a gri in most situations.
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caughtinside
Jun 29, 2006, 4:23 PM
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In reply to: Just goes to show that just because you have 4500 posts on RC.com, you really don't know a damn thing about climbing. GriGri were never really meant for lead belay anyway. And as stated before, what do you think they did before grigri's?
This one is my favorite.
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caughtinside
Jun 29, 2006, 4:27 PM
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In reply to: OK caughtinside. Teach me. When I need to give a lot of slack quick with a grigri, how do I do it without getting it to lock up.
Briefly, you use your hand to pinch the grigri, preventing it from locking up. Then you pull slack through the device.
See the link provided by olib for more details.
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caughtinside
Jun 29, 2006, 4:30 PM
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In reply to: I've recently run into a guy who ONLY wants to be sport belayed with a gri gri.
he sounds like an experienced sport climber.
reminds me of... me. :P
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jaybro
Jun 29, 2006, 4:36 PM
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"Briefly, you use your hand to pinch the grigri, preventing it from locking up. Then you pull slack through the device."
Yep- that's what I do, and exactly why I don't lead belay with said unit. If a leader falls at that moment, the instinctive impulse is to squeeze harder, this has been noted in a bunch of ground fall and long fall incidents. Not gonna happen with other types of devices, unless you let go with the brake hand.
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