|
wanderinfree
Jul 11, 2006, 4:31 PM
Post #1 of 27
(3439 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 7, 2004
Posts: 476
|
I seem to fall in a minority of female climbers in that I'm pretty tall-5'9". And while it seems at first glace that the extra height/reach would be a bonus, I think the additional body weight hurts me on a strength-weight ratio. I'm only an inch or so shorter than my (male) partner, and I can hold my own on vertical/crimpy/balancy routes. But the minute we get on anything overhanging, it seems I lose several grades in ability. Face it, I have nearly the same reach as my partner, but nowhere near the strength.
How many other female climbers out there are tall and built? I'm trying to come up with training methods and techniques that will help me overcome my issue with overhanging routes. We just got back from the RRG and it was dismal for me. Gorgeous routes, but the overhang was a killer!
|
|
|
|
|
acacongua
Jul 11, 2006, 5:34 PM
Post #2 of 27
(3439 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 14, 2003
Posts: 657
|
The RRG is my home crag and in the past two years, I finally understood how to climb there and am still getting schooled.
I'm only an inch shorter than you and height has nothing to do with your strength - it's a matter of technique that you'll get over time of just trying. I had absolutely little muscle on my arms when I started, but that all changed as well as my abilities.
|
|
|
|
|
wanderinfree
Jul 11, 2006, 6:05 PM
Post #3 of 27
(3439 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 7, 2004
Posts: 476
|
I know. Oh how I know that technique is the bulk of the answer. I mean, after all, I'm never going to gain enough strength to match men my height. Not to mention, I would be scary to look at. So therefore, the answer lies in technique and whatever I can do to 'help' my strength-weight ratio. But leaving aside dropping as much weight as I can, I'm trying to figure out technical elements that other tall gals have picked up on dealing with overhangs.
Is it:
--Improving core strength?
--Gaining grip strength? (One of the first things I sense on overhangs is a failing of strength in my hands. I'm focused on NOT overgripping and keeping my arms straight to conserve strength, but I'm still left with the sense that I can't keep my body on the wall.)
--Using your feet? (I know this is an obvious one. But I have the hardest time bringing my feet up and turning when it feels my hands are sliding.)
--Practice? (I'm sure. But the constant frustration of hangdogging overhanging routes is driving me crazy.)
|
|
|
|
|
feedmerocks
Jul 12, 2006, 12:05 PM
Post #4 of 27
(3439 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 10, 2004
Posts: 109
|
It's all of the above.
I would add cardiovascular endurance and aerobic capacity to the list. I never felt better climbing hard overhangs than last year when I was running a couple miles a few times a week.
|
|
|
|
|
granite_grrl
Jul 12, 2006, 2:21 PM
Post #5 of 27
(3439 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 25, 2002
Posts: 15084
|
I'm 5'8", ~155lbs, and feel about the same as you. Over the winter I worked on a lot of overhanging routes in the gym and found some improvement, but I still get jelous of the little 5'3" girls, 50lbs lighter than me floating up bouldering problems that I can't touch.
What can you do? Exploit your strengths and work on your weaknesses I guess. I'm still working on the endurance for overhangs, the lock off strength for bouldering, etc. I feel my gains are slow coming (esp with bouldering) but are coming.
|
|
|
|
|
jewels_vegas
Jul 12, 2006, 4:41 PM
Post #6 of 27
(3439 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 18, 2006
Posts: 18
|
I am 5'10" and weigh around 150 pounds. I am huge compared to most of my climbing partners both male and female :) . I too have been working on my overhang climbing. I have found myself doing a lot of drop-knees and turning my body weight into the wall. I would suggest getting on the steepest terrain that your local gym has to offer and climbing on jugs. As with every other type of climbing core and grip strength coupled with technique are going to help. When you do your hang board exercises, try doing them with your legs at a 90 degree angle. Sometimes letting your feet come off is not a bad thing. I was following this route at red rocks called Rebel Without a Pause, and my feet came off. When they came back into the wall, I was more balanced and I was able to move off of them.
|
|
|
|
|
splitpin
Jul 16, 2006, 4:59 PM
Post #7 of 27
(3439 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 16, 2006
Posts: 1
|
hey peeps, I'm 6"1 and only 64kg, i have very little strength so deep overhangs are past my ability at the moment, although my climbing partner is understanding about my lower strength he does get frustrated when i am unable to complete a lead. he is also tall 6"3 and finds routes that i struggle on fairly easily but that is because he has the extra muscle and strength to pull up. gym work and more climbing is my only advice to build up, i have noticed a difference since starting in the gym and it has also given me more confidence to try routes i would not of dared before.
|
|
|
|
|
clee03m
Jul 17, 2006, 1:23 PM
Post #8 of 27
(3439 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 29, 2004
Posts: 785
|
I'm short and skinny (well....I think, anyways) and I still suck at over hangs. Working hard to get better, though. So maybe it's not the height as much as strength and technique?
|
|
|
|
|
erickson
Jul 18, 2006, 4:02 PM
Post #9 of 27
(3439 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 17, 2006
Posts: 17
|
Have you tried doing pullups? You may need to start by building your biceps a little first, but I found that doing pullups every day at the weight gym gave me all the right muscle strength for overhangs on the rock. When I started, I could only do 5 or 6 pullups at a time, and I'm only 110 pounds. But now I can do 13 at a time, and my climbing strength has greatly improved!
As far as technique, I say FEET, FEET, FEET! Take as much weight off of those arms as you can!
|
|
|
|
|
lmcwil
Jul 18, 2006, 4:15 PM
Post #10 of 27
(3439 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 30, 2005
Posts: 36
|
speaking as a relatively short girl (5'5.5"), I dont think the difficulty w/ overhangs has anything to do w/ height. I unfortunately have been away from climbing for the past 2 months or so, but back when I was at my best form, I always had a harder time w/ overhangs than anything else.
One thing that really did seem to help though was doing some light weight lifting with my arms. Especially when I would kill myself on the rocks and be really sore, if I lift weights about 2 days later, when maybe I'm still just a tiny bit sore, it seemed like the soreness went away really quickly and I felt stronger the following week.
i wish there was some secret but I know for me the answer is probably "train harder"
|
|
|
|
|
happy_cat
Aug 4, 2006, 9:56 PM
Post #11 of 27
(3439 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 16, 2006
Posts: 71
|
Phewf! I'm happy to hear I'm not the only one with this problem!!!! I'm 5'9" and overhangs always kill me, I didn't even consider it might be a height thing.
|
|
|
|
|
wanderinfree
Aug 5, 2006, 12:42 AM
Post #12 of 27
(3439 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 7, 2004
Posts: 476
|
Well, I've instituted an ab regime and my partner and I invest in HIT strips. I'll let you know if the increased grip and core strength helps on the overhangs. Figure I should begin to see results in say...6 months? :lol:
|
|
|
|
|
caughtinside
Aug 5, 2006, 6:23 AM
Post #13 of 27
(3439 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 8, 2003
Posts: 30603
|
In reply to: Well, I've instituted an ab regime and my partner and I invest in HIT strips. I'll let you know if the increased grip and core strength helps on the overhangs. Figure I should begin to see results in say...6 months? :lol:
Grip and core strength are key, but not as much as technique. Keep the hips turned in.
Work with your ass, don't fight it.
And as a boorish aside which is sure to get me flamed, don't complain or make excessive excuses when you get hosed on the steep stuff. It is really, really annoying.
|
|
|
|
|
wanderinfree
Aug 5, 2006, 11:03 PM
Post #14 of 27
(3439 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 7, 2004
Posts: 476
|
In reply to: Grip and core strength are key, but not as much as technique. Keep the hips turned in. Work with your ass, don't fight it. And as a boorish aside which is sure to get me flamed, don't complain or make excessive excuses when you get hosed on the steep stuff. It is really, really annoying.
I have no doubt that technique is critical. But my OP goes more to how taller gals have trained to overcome a failing strength factor on overhanging terrain when by nature a larger body type (thus worse strength to weight ratio) is working against us. Simple fact is that a male partner of equal height will have more strength (grip/arms/etc) to hang on overhangs to be able to use his feet. Face it. No matter what--on overhanging terrain, more weight is on your arms as compared to vertical terrain. Turning/drop knees definately help to keep as much weight as possible on your legs, but if you can't hang on long enough with your arms it still won't be enough. I was looking for other things women have done--training regimes, lifting, etc. that helped them overcome this type of route.
Thanks for the great advice from everyone.
|
|
|
|
|
caughtinside
Aug 6, 2006, 6:45 AM
Post #15 of 27
(3439 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 8, 2003
Posts: 30603
|
In reply to: Simple fact is that a male partner of equal height will have more strength (grip/arms/etc) to hang on overhangs to be able to use his feet. Face it. No matter what--on overhanging terrain, more weight is on your arms as compared to vertical terrain.
disagree. it is much more about core strength than arm strength, to be able to target and drive with your feet.
you don't need big arm strength to climb steep, but it helps. you need core, endurance and technique. and smart tactics like stick clipping would probably help you out as well.
Probably the best way to get better at it fast would be doing bouldering endurance workouts, or leading steep routes in the gym...
good luck with it.
|
|
|
|
|
hstewart
Aug 8, 2006, 10:32 PM
Post #16 of 27
(3439 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 6, 2003
Posts: 171
|
You should try sticking a rocket up your ass. That would help. :twisted:
|
|
|
|
|
wanderinfree
Aug 8, 2006, 11:39 PM
Post #17 of 27
(3439 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 7, 2004
Posts: 476
|
Ohhh....That might work. And help me to climb quicker too. Hate to ask how you know to recommend it though. :shock:
|
|
|
|
|
nthusiastj
Aug 9, 2006, 3:03 AM
Post #18 of 27
(3439 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 3, 2002
Posts: 1994
|
I vote for a nice HIT strip routine. Supposedly it improves your contact strength and doesn't buff you out.
I'll keep on you to work out, and next spring we'll hit the Red again and see how we've done.
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
Aug 9, 2006, 3:26 AM
Post #19 of 27
(3439 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
A woman at our gym is at least 5'10" and I'd say 160 lb. She excels at overhangs. She does 1-hr laps on ceiling routes and multiple traverses across our 50-degree bouldering cave. Yet she can only do a few pull-ups, and boulders maybe V2 on a good day. Listen to caughtinside: it isn't upper body strength, or height. It's more like body position, efficiency, core strength, movement, staying relaxed, finding and milking rests, and endurance. I suspect that HIT strips will be a waste of time for you, as I doubt that finger strength is your issue. Get with partners who can teach you how to move on steep rock. Get The Self-Coached Climber, too, and practice the movement exercise.
Jay
|
|
|
|
|
hstewart
Aug 9, 2006, 7:17 PM
Post #20 of 27
(3439 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 6, 2003
Posts: 171
|
I am no expert on overhangs (as Kim can attest to), however the limited successes I've had on overhanging routes can be attributed to core strength. You simply cannot execute the techniques needed to pull through overhangs - turning in, drop knees - or extend your reach without keeping your ass into the wall (all core muscles when you're on an overhang).
I know you're a yoga princess, but ever thing about pilates? It works the hell out of your core - both front and side muscles that are hard to work from sit-ups alone.
|
|
|
|
|
hstewart
Aug 9, 2006, 7:25 PM
Post #21 of 27
(3439 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 6, 2003
Posts: 171
|
In reply to: Hate to ask how you know to recommend it though.
Um...this one time, at climbing camp...
|
|
|
|
|
jewels_vegas
Aug 12, 2006, 4:33 AM
Post #22 of 27
(3439 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 18, 2006
Posts: 18
|
From going back and reading your original post it seems that you are good at static climbing. Most women are. Our center of gravity helps us put our weight over our feet. Try working more dynamic moves. I would recommend doing some overhung bouldering so that you do not hang dog. Be patient with yourself and really be open to asking for help. The lady that has taught me a lot is five feet tall and weighs about 90 pounds.
|
|
|
|
|
wanderinfree
Aug 13, 2006, 2:39 PM
Post #23 of 27
(3439 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 7, 2004
Posts: 476
|
You are exactly right. I'm very much a static climber. On moves that my male partners tend to "throw big" for, I will use body tensioning to move statically. Generally, I will blow my balance and loose my grip on what I "throw for", so keeping that balance is key for me.
I'll definately take your suggestion of working on overhanging bouldering (and longer) routes. Course it means I have to give up one day a week of climbing outside to be back in they gym, but hell, that's why we have a gym. About gaining strength and working technique. Thanks!
|
|
|
|
|
boadman
Aug 13, 2006, 11:26 PM
Post #24 of 27
(3439 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 7, 2003
Posts: 726
|
As one big climber to another (6' and 200 lbs) :-) it's easier for heavier people to injure themselves. There's more stress on the joints, regardless of how strong you are. Be very careful to get sufficient rest between training sessions. Listen to your body for the difference between good pain (getting stronger) and bad pain (getting injured). I think that, if you love climbing, you will improve, maybe not as fast as the pipsqueaks, but you will still get better and better as you climb more routes and more styles. Rumney is another great place to learn how to climb steep rock. There are a bunch of easy, overhanging routes that can teach you a lot about body position. Another hint is to stop following overhanging stuff and start leading it. Toproping steep rock is a big pain.
In reply to: Well, I've instituted an ab regime and my partner and I invest in HIT strips. I'll let you know if the increased grip and core strength helps on the overhangs. Figure I should begin to see results in say...6 months? :lol: |
|
|
|
|
fracture
Aug 14, 2006, 12:07 AM
Post #25 of 27
(3439 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 13, 2003
Posts: 1814
|
In reply to: You are exactly right. I'm very much a static climber. On moves that my male partners tend to "throw big" for, I will use body tensioning to move statically. Generally, I will blow my balance and loose my grip on what I "throw for", so keeping that balance is key for me.
Learning to climb efficiently in many ways is about learning how to climb dynamically (and quickly). You say you'll lose your grip and balance when you "throw for" a hold almost as if it implies that static climbing is your only option, but the reason you find it hard to "throw for" holds is probably just because you haven't practiced it enough.
Many climbers also don't realize that moves that aren't really "throws" are often better done more dynamically than statically. Ironically, many of them even think it is better to do a move static (sometimes claiming it as better "technique", other times, people even boast about it as if it means you are a better climber (e.g. Malcolm Smith's ascent of Hubble)). Moving dynamically requires timing and precision (which comes with practice), but the result is that it can take significantly less energy to get through the same section of rock, leaving you less pumped.
I'd also recommend the book that Jay mentioned. For one thing, it challenges the common assumption (which many people in this thread are operating under) that there is a simple and coherent dividing line between "technique" and "strength". It will probably also give you a better understanding of what balance is, and its central importance in all climbing. (Climbing is a balance sport.) There are also some good excersizes mentioned in it that you can do to develop the skills you need to be able to move more dynamically.
HTH
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
