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Nothing wrong with bolting cracks
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dingus


Aug 9, 2006, 8:20 AM
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My opinion on bolting cracks? I think that anyone who really thinks it is an important issue has lost all perspective on life.

Jay

I think that anyone who really thinks it isn't an important issue has lost all perspective on climbing.

How come?

DMT


tripperjm


Aug 9, 2006, 9:21 AM
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That picture has to be a joke. Please tell me it's a joke.

In what sense do you mean "joke?" It is clear what the pic is: a guy who needs a haircut rap bolting a splitter hand crack.

I didn't say that there were no ethics associated with bolting; I said that "there is nothing inherently wrong with placing a bolt next to a crack in a rock."

Jay

Now Jay, I have to take exception to this... "there is nothing inherently wrong" with my haircut!


jt512


Aug 11, 2006, 9:34 AM
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My opinion on bolting cracks? I think that anyone who really thinks it is an important issue has lost all perspective on life.

Jay

Anyone who thinks this isn't an important issue has lost all perspective on climbing.

As far as importance goes, I'd place bolting near a crack just above the designated hitter rule in baseball and just below the preservation of the endangered Zayante Band-winged Grasshopper.

Jay


the_iceman


Aug 12, 2006, 12:24 AM
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Re: Nothing wrong with bolting cracks [In reply to]
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Some climbs are better protected by nuts then cams, but it depends on the climb.

You sound like a total n00b, BTW

I think you meant "Than". "Then" is not a conjunction. And machine nuts are NEVER better pro than cams, or "Stoppers" perhaps you should read my question, and then some climbing history so you can understand the context of the question.

I'm deeply hurt that you think I "sound like a total n00b" I guess if it "sounds" like I'm a n00b to someone on the internet, I'm not such hot shit after all... Oh well.

In reply to:
Yeah, I was talking about climbsomething. The fact that you couldn't figure that out makes me wonder if it's safe for you to be climbing at all.

Still no answers after all this time? Oh well, I think it's time to put this thread to rest.

What questions were you seeking answers to? Sorry about the delay in my responses. I haven't been online all week.

The fact that I couldn't figure out what you were saying makes me wonder if you should be composing sentences at all. I'm not understanding how my inability to decrypt your pathetic drivel is somehow related to my ability to safely climb... ?


stymingersfink


Aug 12, 2006, 12:06 PM
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Way back on page 7,
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I agree, but this isn't the route to learn it on. Jack, who bolted the line, describes the placements as "A4." The route can't be safely or sanely led on gear.

So what you're telling us is that someone brought an "A4" route down to the level of a sport route by someone who, in your own words, is not safe or sane? Sign me up! BTW, if such a crack can be climbed with cams from the ground up, it's not A4. C1X maybe, but not A4.
In reply to:
An experienced climber wouldn't attempt it,
So, an inexperienced climber did attempt it, and subsequently decided to retro-bolt it? <--- WTF!? :shock:

In reply to:
but many n00bs wouldn't know any better, and left "natural" it is virtually certain that a serious accident would eventually occur.

Your argument that a n00b wouldn't know any better (after having spent some serious coin on trad gear, btw, which shows commitment to the sport and a strong desire to progress and learn) doesn't hold water in my book. In fact, I would argue that by placing said bolts near a death flake, you are inviting more n00bs to place themselves (and their belayer) in harms way. Irresponsible at best.





Darwin always wins the day, and the Devil always takes his due. (Tell Jack to give my regards to Saddam when he gets there. :wink: )


stevematthys


Aug 12, 2006, 12:27 PM
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its as simple as this, dont bolt cracks. if you are a noob that wants to climb a crack but dont know how, do not have the gear to climb it trad, or are just to chicken shit to climb it, THEN DONT CLIMB IT. grow some balls, buy some gear and stop bitchin and moaning because something is to scary or to dangerous. if you have to bolt a crack to climb it, then you dont belong there in the first place.


builttospill


Aug 12, 2006, 12:38 PM
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I think you meant "Than". "Then" is not a conjunction. And machine nuts are NEVER better pro than cams, or "Stoppers" perhaps you should read my question, and then some climbing history so you can understand the context of the question.

Iceman, that (your comment about cams always being better than nuts) is debatable at best and flat out wrong at worst. Maybe a personal preference, but I know of a couple climbs where stoppers are clearly better protection than cams. Doesn't happen often, but it does happen.


stymingersfink


Aug 12, 2006, 1:03 PM
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I know of a couple climbs where stoppers are clearly better protection than cams. Doesn't happen often, but it does happen.
I'd say it happens more often than you think.


...and FWIW, he's making a distinction between machine nuts and stoppers (big difference). Todays conventions makes no distinction between 'nuts' and 'stoppers', however some like to split hairs in an effort to say 'hey, I remember when there was a difference' thereby attempting to establish that they've been around since the dinosaur age and are clearly better than you in all ways ...so STFU, N00B! :wink:


bones


Aug 12, 2006, 2:00 PM
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Yeah, I was talking about climbsomething. The fact that you couldn't figure that out makes me wonder if it's safe for you to be climbing at all.

Still no answers after all this time? Oh well, I think it's time to put this thread to rest.

What questions were you seeking answers to? Sorry about the delay in my responses. I haven't been online all week.

The fact that I couldn't figure out what you were saying makes me wonder if you should be composing sentences at all. I'm not understanding how my inability to decrypt your pathetic drivel is somehow related to my ability to safely climb... ?

I mainly wanted answers from Jay, but I also want you to point out who all of the "bolt haters" are in this thread. I made it pretty damn obvious.

About your poor reading comprehension: Look back at page 14 at the original comment in question. Still with me? Notice how it says "edited to respond". You doing okay? Now look directly above my post at climbsomething's post, which was posted exactly one minute before mine. Read it. Take it slow if your brain starts hurting. Does my response make sense given the context? I added the little "up arrow" for those who aren't so good with words and stuff.
I don't think it takes a detective to figure out that "pathetic drivel", but I agree that it may be difficult for the mentally handicapped. Now, if you can't figure out simple things like that, then I wonder how you can be trusted to ensure your own safety or the safety of others while climbing. It is making more sense to me now why you want cracks to be bolted...to simplify things for other "challenged" people like yourself.

Iceman, have you ever even given consideration to the possibility that you might be the one who isn't getting it?

Now, if you have anything intelligent to add to your position of bolting cracks... please post away. Otherwise, continue adding to your status as a noob and idiot in denial.


the_iceman


Aug 13, 2006, 12:19 AM
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Iceman, that (your comment about cams always being better than nuts) is debatable at best and flat out wrong at worst. Maybe a personal preference, but I know of a couple climbs where stoppers are clearly better protection than cams. Doesn't happen often, but it does happen.

I specifically said "Machine Nuts" and distinguished them from "stoppers" Or what are, nowadays, commonly referred to as just "nuts". In ye olde days of climbing they would use machine nuts with the threads drilled out, and tie a piece of cortlette through them. These were the predecessors of today's more modern "stoppers" and the reason they are commonly referred to as nuts. The various applications of cams, tricams, stoppers, hexes, etc. have nothing to do with these archaic pieces of pro, that are NEVER a better option than modern pro. Simple mistake, I think you just misread what I was saying.

In reply to:
I mainly wanted answers from Jay, but I also want you to point out who all of the "bolt haters" are in this thread. I made it pretty damn obvious.
Your posts are all over the place, I'm just supposed to know that you were talking to Jay, when in the same paragraph you had just specifically directed your commentary toward me, then with no warning you change the subject and apparently, your target for questioning all at once... WTF? Oh well, that's not the first time you did that. I guess I'll just assume the next time you direct your commentary directly toward me, that you must mean someone else... That seems to be the status quo.

In reply to:
About your poor reading comprehension: Look back at page 14 at the original comment in question. Still with me? Notice how it says "edited to respond". You doing okay? Now look directly above my post at climbsomething's post, which was posted exactly one minute before mine. Read it. Take it slow if your brain starts hurting. Does my response make sense given the context? I added the little "up arrow" for those who aren't so good with words and stuff.


Your little "up arrow" is supposed to clarify everything? Perhaps an asterisk (That's the little * symbol to you) would have made more sense, it was anybody's guess what your little ^ was for, but yes, now that it's in context (several pages later), it makes sense.

In reply to:
I don't think it takes a detective to figure out that "pathetic drivel", but I agree that it may be difficult for the mentally handicapped. Now, if you can't figure out simple things like that, then I wonder how you can be trusted to ensure your own safety or the safety of others while climbing. It is making more sense to me now why you want cracks to be bolted...to simplify things for other "challenged" people like yourself.

Perhaps, or maybe you should provide us with a decryption key since you refuse to use traditional methods of conveying your meaning. I.e. the proper use of conjunctions, adjectives, clauses, etc.
In reply to:
Iceman, have you ever even given consideration to the possibility that you might be the one who isn't getting it?
Well I'm certainly not picking up what you're putting down, maybe it is just me.
[random emphasis added]

In reply to:
Now, if you have anything intelligent to add to your position of bolting cracks... please post away. Otherwise, continue adding to your status as a noob and idiot in denial.

I daresay any opinion that differs from your own will not be regarded by you as intelligent, and will only serve to further your opinion of me as a "Noob and idiot in denial" And I just can't have that, there's no telling what that could do to my self image...


stone_d_cologne


Aug 14, 2006, 1:59 AM
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As far as importance goes, I'd place bolting near a crack just above the designated hitter rule in baseball and just below the preservation of the endangered Zayante Band-winged Grasshopper.

Jay

In this case I think you should quit climbing and change to a more important pursuit like caring for your environment.


the_iceman


Aug 14, 2006, 2:08 AM
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Yes, you should start hugging trees in fact. Trees need lovin' too!


Partner kikibatlubbin


Aug 14, 2006, 4:42 AM
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Plenty wrong with bolting cracks [In reply to]
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I don't want people to sport my trad routes. I don't want climbs easier. I don't want someone to make a place where I might want to put my fingers or toes inaccessible.


bones


Aug 18, 2006, 4:10 PM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
I mainly wanted answers from Jay, but I also want you to point out who all of the "bolt haters" are in this thread. I made it pretty damn obvious.
Your posts are all over the place, I'm just supposed to know that you were talking to Jay, when in the same paragraph you had just specifically directed your commentary toward me, then with no warning you change the subject and apparently, your target for questioning all at once... WTF? Oh well, that's not the first time you did that. I guess I'll just assume the next time you direct your commentary directly toward me, that you must mean someone else... That seems to be the status quo.

In reply to:
About your poor reading comprehension: Look back at page 14 at the original comment in question. Still with me? Notice how it says "edited to respond". You doing okay? Now look directly above my post at climbsomething's post, which was posted exactly one minute before mine. Read it. Take it slow if your brain starts hurting. Does my response make sense given the context? I added the little "up arrow" for those who aren't so good with words and stuff.


Your little "up arrow" is supposed to clarify everything? Perhaps an asterisk (That's the little * symbol to you) would have made more sense, it was anybody's guess what your little ^ was for, but yes, now that it's in context (several pages later), it makes sense.

In reply to:
I don't think it takes a detective to figure out that "pathetic drivel", but I agree that it may be difficult for the mentally handicapped. Now, if you can't figure out simple things like that, then I wonder how you can be trusted to ensure your own safety or the safety of others while climbing. It is making more sense to me now why you want cracks to be bolted...to simplify things for other "challenged" people like yourself.

Perhaps, or maybe you should provide us with a decryption key since you refuse to use traditional methods of conveying your meaning. I.e. the proper use of conjunctions, adjectives, clauses, etc.
In reply to:
Iceman, have you ever even given consideration to the possibility that you might be the one who isn't getting it?
Well I'm certainly not picking up what you're putting down, maybe it is just me.
[random emphasis added]

In reply to:
Now, if you have anything intelligent to add to your position of bolting cracks... please post away. Otherwise, continue adding to your status as a noob and idiot in denial.

I daresay any opinion that differs from your own will not be regarded by you as intelligent, and will only serve to further your opinion of me as a "Noob and idiot in denial" And I just can't have that, there's no telling what that could do to my self image...

*TO ICEMAN: Clearly, now that you've pulled the grammar card, I am no match for your keen intellect. I can now see how everything I have written prior to this is pure gibberish. It is also likely that what I'm writing now can only be deciphered by my own primitive nerve center. If only I knew a way to communicate with you, I would ask you AGAIN who the "bolt haters" are in this thread. But alas, I must accept that nobody can understand me. Please, if there are any professional linguists reading this, perhaps you can translate this for The Iceman. Let him know that I offer my deepest apologies for confusing him with a ^ symbol when replying to a post directly above mine. No response is necessary, Iceman, as I concede my defeat to your most advanced logic.

* Asterisk used to identify a post that is intended to be directed to The Iceman.


eastvillage


Aug 18, 2006, 4:18 PM
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Bolting cracks is for cowardly scum.


jt512


Aug 19, 2006, 9:56 PM
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Bolting cracks is for cowardly scum.

Thank you. Your post could not be more timely, as I have proposed the name "Home of the Brave" for the bolted crack route.

Jay


climbsomething


Aug 19, 2006, 11:18 PM
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Bolting cracks is for cowardly scum.

Thank you. Your post could not be more timely, as I have proposed the name "Home of the Brave" for the bolted crack route.

Jay
Heh. Well, it's certainly appropriate for the belayer.

Now go bolt me a finger crack so we can call it Illegal Aliens.

Like, the dimples scare me, and remember, I also practically qualify for low-income housing. So I'd really appreciate it. Tks!


tripperjm


Aug 21, 2006, 3:06 PM
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In reply to:
Bolting cracks is for cowardly scum.

Thank you. Your post could not be more timely, as I have proposed the name "Home of the Brave" for the bolted crack route.

Jay
Heh. Well, it's certainly appropriate for the belayer.

Now go bolt me a finger crack so we can call it Illegal Aliens.

Like, the dimples scare me, and remember, I also practically qualify for low-income housing. So I'd really appreciate it. Tks!

Now Hill, I think you are just rubbing salt into the wound at this point. That being said.... it was good to see Alex and you at the new area, though I think you have been on good rock so long you forgot how to climb choss. HAHA!!!1


climbsomething


Aug 21, 2006, 3:24 PM
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We heart you too, Jack, and we even heart your special SoCal choss, in a weird way. We just don't have a black belt in Choss-Kwan-Do like you do. Think we could get a new crop of righteous blowhards puffin' up a storm if we told them about how you "stabilized" the new route at the Morning Wall?

Damn straight we've been spoiled on good rock. We live in Flagstaff. Come visit us, we'll return the favor by hooking you up with some good limestone.


tripperjm


Aug 22, 2006, 8:27 AM
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Think we could get a new crop of righteous blowhards puffin' up a storm if we told them about how you "stabilized" the new route at the Morning Wall?

Now Hilary.... I told you, that was sap that dripped off the pine tree at the top of the crag. It just happened to drip on that loose hold. HAHA!!!1

You know it's easy to troll washed up tradies that are stuck in the 90's, still climbing on good rock about what goes on at the newer choss piles. They have never even seen or climbed on choss and have no idea. What would really impress me, and I'd like to see is... a couple of you anglers, troll the wash up tradies about what goes on in their areas, their precious splitters and good rock. There is plenty of good material there and most of those guy's don't even know what has gone on in their own areas by their own heros. It might take a little more work than just posting a staged picture of me "bolting a splitter crack" but it would be worth it.

In reply to:
Damn straight we've been spoiled on good rock. We live in Flagstaff. Come visit us, we'll return the favor by hooking you up with some good limestone.

I just might take you up on that offer.


jt512


Aug 22, 2006, 8:29 AM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
Think we could get a new crop of righteous blowhards puffin' up a storm if we told them about how you "stabilized" the new route at the Morning Wall?

Now Hilary.... I told you, that was sap that dripped off the pine tree at the top of the crag. It just happened to drip on that loose hold. HAHA!!!1

You know it's easy to troll washed up tradies that are stuck in the 90's, still climbing on good rock about what goes on at the newer choss piles. They have never even seen or climbed on choss and have no idea. What would really impress me, and I'd like to see is... a couple of you anglers, troll the wash up tradies about what goes on in their areas, their precious splitters and good rock. There is plenty of good material there and most of those guy's don't even know what has gone on in their own areas by their own heros. It might take a little more work than just posting a staged picture of me "bolting a splitter crack" but it would be worth it.

"Staged?" Did your lawyer make you post that?

Jay


ltking


Oct 6, 2006, 11:45 PM
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i think that cracks should be left for trad, even though it is scary it is natural, bolts should only go on routes that cant be protected.


foreverabumbly


Oct 7, 2006, 3:48 AM
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bolting climbs you can naturally protect because your not good enough to lead it properly, what a great idea! why not chip or glue holds while your at it so the route becomes more accessible to everyone.your time on the rock is limited, but the bolt scars will remain forever, if you feel the need to deface the rock to soothe your shattered ego then you belong in the gym, or politics.


the_iceman


Oct 17, 2006, 3:22 AM
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Or Australia... :lol: :lol:


climbingtrash


Oct 17, 2006, 4:41 AM
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AND NOW...HERE'S MY STELLAR CONTRIBUTION!There's nothing WRONG with bolting a crack.*SARCASM* Just like there's nothing WRONG with tattooing COCKSUCKER across ones forehead...It just makes you look STUPID! :twisted: :lol:

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