|
|
|
|
aelita
Sep 4, 2002, 5:51 PM
Post #1 of 8
(2932 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 21, 2002
Posts: 123
|
When you are climbing something that can take a lot of good pro - like a solid pretty consistent crack, how often would you place pro? The reason I am asking is because I had witnessed a pretty bad accident this last weekend at Seneca and I think it could have been prevented if the leader had placed more pro.
The accident happened on Triple-S, which, I am told is a really well-protected climb. When my friend and I came upon the accident though (the leader had decked from a 50ft fall, and, luckily, only damaged both of his ankles), there were only two pieces of pro on the climb. Apparently his third piece didn't hold when he took the whipper and he decked.
So, if you count, he was about 50ft off the deck with three pieces of pro in - is that normal? He was saying if he'd placed his second to last piece just three feet higher he wouldn't have hit the ground. He'd led the climb clean the year before and thought he wouldn't have problems doing it again.
I am wondering if its just a macho thing not to put in pro if you can on something that is about your level or just below your level, climbing trad or if its stupid to put a piece every 6 feet? Thanks for your opinions!
|
|
|
|
|
transse
Sep 4, 2002, 6:23 PM
Post #2 of 8
(2932 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 10, 2002
Posts: 67
|
Putting pro in is a personal choice. There is no fast and firm rule for distance between placements. I try to place when I have a good stance, or in most cases, place when I have a placement. There is nothing more dumb than running it out because you skipped an obvious placement. On a well protected climb that placements abound, look what you have and place accordingly. I think on Triple S, 3 peices in the first 50 ft. sounds about right. Consider your first placement may be 15 ft. off the deck. Evidently he didn't do something right, sucks for him, good thing he is okay. Hope this helps.
Jake
|
|
|
|
|
chuckd278
Sep 4, 2002, 6:24 PM
Post #3 of 8
(2932 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 23, 2002
Posts: 156
|
If I can I always try to get a few good pieces in to save me from hitting the deck right off and do the same for the rest of the climb. I may run it out a little if I have to but as with a crack that runs all the way up I will place gear all the way up if not just to shed weight. It's all personal, but as you can tell im still here and not dead yet so being safe is better than being unsafe.
|
|
|
|
|
rollingstone
Sep 4, 2002, 6:30 PM
Post #4 of 8
(2932 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 22, 2002
Posts: 273
|
Like everyone says, it's a personal choice, and where one will run something out, another will drop in pro like crazy. Experience will dictate in the end what is right for each individual, but now that I am older (after 30 years climbing), I try to opt for more, rather than less pro most of the time. I figure it never hurts to cover my bases, and the odds may be trying to catch up. I am also less limber than 20 years ago, and it takes a while for the brain to realize that just because I can visualize a move in my mind does not always mean my body will willingly execute said move; "The spirit is strong, but the flesh is weak!"
|
|
|
|
|
tradguy
Sep 4, 2002, 7:40 PM
Post #5 of 8
(2932 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 22, 2002
Posts: 526
|
All good advice. I think the only real key to remember is to make sure the gear you put in is good and isn't going to blow out if you fall on it. I've taken a big fall or two, and it's a crazy feeling, but being able to trust the gear you place allows you to push the grades and work up to climbing harder routes. I don't know the route you're talking about, but I wouldn't necessarily say 3 pieces in 50 ft is unreasonable, especially if he had climbed the route clean before, and the grade was well within his abilities. I would only question his judgement on the quality of placement, since it sounds like his gear pulled. I personally make sure that if I fall, I've got gear in to prevent me from hitting the deck, because you never know when that one hold your gripping just might break off and send you for a ride.
|
|
|
|
|
boduke
Sep 4, 2002, 8:18 PM
Post #6 of 8
(2932 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 25, 2002
Posts: 12
|
reguardless of what your opinion is on how much pro you should place this guy made his choice. it may have been a poor choice but he's the one that has to live with it. He's going to live, that's a pretty good outlook after decking from 50 ft. I worry constantly about other people when i go to the crag but when or if something happens it's noone elses fault but the people invovled. Just learn from it and move on.
|
|
|
|
|
fitz
Sep 4, 2002, 8:35 PM
Post #7 of 8
(2932 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 15, 2002
Posts: 363
|
As the accident shows, the question isn't 'how often?' or 'how many?' The question is 'how good?' and 'where?'
Unless the route is well under your comfort level, somewhere between 5' and 10' is probably 'normal' (whatever that means). But, it is not at all unusual to have the same climber have gear spacings from 3' to 50' on the same multi-pitch route. It comes done to experience, situation, and personal choice.
Unless it was an R route, it sounds like someone chose poorly. I'm just glad no one was more seriously hurt.
-jjf
|
|
|
|
|
natec
Sep 4, 2002, 8:49 PM
Post #8 of 8
(2932 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 13, 2001
Posts: 667
|
There are several factors that must come into play when determining how much gear you need to place.
A good rule of thumb is never to rely on one peace to keep your ass off the ground.
Assuming your placements are quite perfect, there are other variables that you must account for.
#1 What kind of rock are you on and what is the probability of the piece pulling because the rock gave way. In Yosemite bad rock is typically not a big factor, the granite is very bomber, Seneca however is known for pieces pulling because of crystals breaking or rock tearing loose. The leader you speak of should have accounted for this.
#2 If you fall what are you going to hit on the way down. If its possible to hit a ledge or something else you should try to prevent this by placing pieces accordingly.
#3 How comfortable are you on the terrain you are on? If you are uncomfortable, it pays to place more good pieces more often.
In general it is up to the leader but there are guidelines that everyone should consider. It sounds to me like the leader you are speaking of let his pride get the best of him. What could it have hurt to place a few more pieces? I have done SSS and I know that the gear is there and there are sufficient rests to place it from.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
