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hibby11


Aug 19, 2006, 7:09 PM
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Haul Bag?
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Hi everyone

So i've been getting more and more into trad climbing and am getting annoyed with either carrying a ton of gear, or making my belayer bring it up with them. So my question is do you think its worth it to pick up like a small haul bag like the Black Diamond Stubby? I can see myself eventually getting into aid and am making a trip to Devils Tower in two weeks, is it worth the purchase?

H


csproul


Aug 19, 2006, 7:14 PM
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Re: Haul Bag? [In reply to]
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I'm not saying a small haul bag isn't useful to use, but it sounds to me like you need to learn to climb with less gear if it is really that much of a problem. The only thing a haul bag is going to help is if you really need to be hauling gear or you just want a very durable backpack.


hibby11


Aug 19, 2006, 7:26 PM
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Its just now that im getting into harder levels of trad where its not a casual carry a ton of gear 5.8 that i'm trying. Its more like a 5 pitch climb where 2 pitches are hand size pro while the other three are smaller, and its at my limit of leading ability. I just want to get up the route with as little gear on me as possible for weight purposes but still be able to bring more with me in case we need it later.

H


csproul


Aug 19, 2006, 7:44 PM
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Well, I guess you know your options then. You either carry less, learn to climb the route with more gear (my least favorite too), make your belayer carry it up, or haul. For me personally, even a small haulbag would be too much for the vast majority of long trad routes I've done. I have used a Black Diamond bullet pack for small amounts of gear but if you're going to haul on a regular basis, go for it and get a bag.


coolklimber


Aug 19, 2006, 9:47 PM
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Yes, if you are planning on aiding, you will need it, have you seen a picture with people aiding without a haulbag.


dindolino32


Sep 24, 2012, 9:57 PM
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Re: [hibby11] Haul Bag? [In reply to]
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wouldnt the weight of a second rope (haul line) outweigh the benefits of carrying less gear on that specific pitch?


marc801


Sep 24, 2012, 10:16 PM
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Re: [hibby11] Haul Bag? [In reply to]
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hibby11 wrote:
Its just now that im getting into harder levels of trad where its not a casual carry a ton of gear 5.8 that i'm trying. Its more like a 5 pitch climb where 2 pitches are hand size pro while the other three are smaller, and its at my limit of leading ability. I just want to get up the route with as little gear on me as possible for weight purposes but still be able to bring more with me in case we need it later.

There are numerous 1000' routes where all that is needed is a standard rack of cams and nuts. You're approaching your problem from the wrong direction - you shouldn't be trying to figure out how to carry more gear; you should be improving your leading ability so that you don't need so much. Realistically, it sounds like you're not ready for the routes you are currently contemplating.


(This post was edited by marc801 on Sep 25, 2012, 7:50 AM)


petsfed


Sep 25, 2012, 7:46 AM
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Re: [hibby11] Haul Bag? [In reply to]
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No.

If you can't climb the grade with two sets of cams on your person, then you can't climb the grade. Getting a haulbag won't change that. I've never encountered a 5.10 or under route whose individual pitches varied so much that trading the biggest (or smallest) stuff for the spares from your belayer was not enough. Change the way you rack, and it will help.


billcoe_


Sep 25, 2012, 3:10 PM
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Re: [marc801] Haul Bag? [In reply to]
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marc801 wrote:
There are numerous 1000' routes where all that is needed is a standard rack of cams and nuts. You're approaching your problem from the wrong direction - you shouldn't be trying to figure out how to carry more gear; you should be improving your leading ability so that you don't need so much. Realistically, it sounds like you're not ready for the routes you are currently contemplating.

Good advise up thread on leaving the pack on the dirt..... usually. If you do need one, Cilogear Packs makes a flat out amazing product called a "Hauly". It hauls a shit ton of crap, is designed to be a great backpack (I just used it for a multi-day backpacking trip into the Wallows and at one time had all mys stuff in it AND THEN strapped my wifes pack to the top of it as well. So for packing crap into like the Wind River Range, Tetons, Wallowas, 7 devils etc etc, this is the total schizz. But you can hide the backpack straps in less than 2 shakes and haul it like a haul bag as well. For big walls, it acts like a great sub bag as well, better than the Black Diamond Subby on it's best day. But it costs more at $275. Worth every penny IMO, and it will outlive most of us. The material isn't that thick (and heavy) haulbag material but is thick burly Cordura.

Then instead of a big pack and a small haul bag, you'll have one that is excellent at both. I was using it to haul my crap out doing new routes. In 2 years of sharp rock it still looks good.

http://www.cilogear.com/65lwallpack.html




(This post was edited by billcoe_ on Sep 25, 2012, 3:27 PM)


Partner cracklover


Sep 25, 2012, 3:26 PM
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Re: [hibby11] Haul Bag? [In reply to]
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hibby11 wrote:
Its just now that im getting into harder levels of trad where its not a casual carry a ton of gear 5.8 that i'm trying. Its more like a 5 pitch climb where 2 pitches are hand size pro while the other three are smaller, and its at my limit of leading ability. I just want to get up the route with as little gear on me as possible for weight purposes but still be able to bring more with me in case we need it later.

H

I really can't tell if Marc is right, or if you are. Can you give examples of some of the routes you're contemplating doing that might require the second bringing that much additional gear?

GO


(This post was edited by cracklover on Sep 25, 2012, 3:26 PM)


marc801


Sep 25, 2012, 4:05 PM
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Re: [cracklover] Haul Bag? [In reply to]
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cracklover wrote:
hibby11 wrote:
Its just now that im getting into harder levels of trad where its not a casual carry a ton of gear 5.8 that i'm trying. Its more like a 5 pitch climb where 2 pitches are hand size pro while the other three are smaller, and its at my limit of leading ability. I just want to get up the route with as little gear on me as possible for weight purposes but still be able to bring more with me in case we need it later.

H

I really can't tell if Marc is right, or if you are. Can you give examples of some of the routes you're contemplating doing that might require the second bringing that much additional gear?
Now that I've reread the OP, I realized I misinterpreted it the first time. I had *thought* the OP was talking about a 5.8 at the "limit of his leading ability" - now I get what he was implying. I also checked his profile which currently states that he leads 10c and follows 11d trad - but I also realize that may not have been updated in weeks/months/years/ever. But my basic point still stands - a 5 pitch route that is fingers to hands shouldn't require such a huge amount of extra gear that hauling is required - even in 5.12-5.13 land.


climbingaggie03


Sep 25, 2012, 4:59 PM
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Re: [hibby11] Haul Bag? [In reply to]
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If you're looking for a small haulbag, I'd go with the fish atom smasher, though I doubt you'd be able to get it before you go to devils tower. I agree with several others though that you shouldn't need a haul bag. For long routes, I usually have the second climb with a pack and if I was doing a route that had specialty pieces or something like that, that's where I'd put them. I've never needed to put anything in there except the second rope though, even for routes like epinephrine, and royal arches.

Not to profile you, but most Minnesotans I see at devils tower are carrying too much gear and sewing things up too much, maybe you're carrying too much gear.


guangzhou


Sep 25, 2012, 7:20 PM
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Re: [marc801] Haul Bag? [In reply to]
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marc801 wrote:
cracklover wrote:
hibby11 wrote:
Its just now that im getting into harder levels of trad where its not a casual carry a ton of gear 5.8 that i'm trying. Its more like a 5 pitch climb where 2 pitches are hand size pro while the other three are smaller, and its at my limit of leading ability. I just want to get up the route with as little gear on me as possible for weight purposes but still be able to bring more with me in case we need it later.

H

Someone climbing those type of grades should already know the answer this the original question.
I really can't tell if Marc is right, or if you are. Can you give examples of some of the routes you're contemplating doing that might require the second bringing that much additional gear?
Now that I've reread the OP, I realized I misinterpreted it the first time. I had *thought* the OP was talking about a 5.8 at the "limit of his leading ability" - now I get what he was implying. I also checked his profile which currently states that he leads 10c and follows 11d trad - but I also realize that may not have been updated in weeks/months/years/ever. But my basic point still stands - a 5 pitch route that is fingers to hands shouldn't require such a huge amount of extra gear that hauling is required - even in 5.12-5.13 land.


Partner cracklover


Sep 26, 2012, 7:50 AM
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Re: [marc801] Haul Bag? [In reply to]
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marc801 wrote:
cracklover wrote:
hibby11 wrote:
Its just now that im getting into harder levels of trad where its not a casual carry a ton of gear 5.8 that i'm trying. Its more like a 5 pitch climb where 2 pitches are hand size pro while the other three are smaller, and its at my limit of leading ability. I just want to get up the route with as little gear on me as possible for weight purposes but still be able to bring more with me in case we need it later.

H

I really can't tell if Marc is right, or if you are. Can you give examples of some of the routes you're contemplating doing that might require the second bringing that much additional gear?
Now that I've reread the OP, I realized I misinterpreted it the first time. I had *thought* the OP was talking about a 5.8 at the "limit of his leading ability" - now I get what he was implying. I also checked his profile which currently states that he leads 10c and follows 11d trad - but I also realize that may not have been updated in weeks/months/years/ever. But my basic point still stands - a 5 pitch route that is fingers to hands shouldn't require such a huge amount of extra gear that hauling is required - even in 5.12-5.13 land.

Whether you misread his OP or not, I think you're still *probably* right. But before I weighed in, I wanted to get some additional data, because I certainly could imagine a route that *would* require a lot of extra gear. I must say that in nearly 15 years of climbing, I've never had to do anything like that, but I'm perfectly happy to hear what the OP has in mind before jumping to any conclusions.

For example, imagine a four pitch route that follows a single crack that slowly, over four pitches, goes from tips to wide offwidth. Neither the leader nor the second is going to want to climb that first pitch of tips to wide fingers while carrying an entire pitch worth of wide gear on him. A mini-haul would be a great solution.

GO


marc801


Sep 26, 2012, 8:15 AM
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Re: [cracklover] Haul Bag? [In reply to]
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cracklover wrote:
marc801 wrote:
cracklover wrote:
hibby11 wrote:
Its just now that im getting into harder levels of trad where its not a casual carry a ton of gear 5.8 that i'm trying. Its more like a 5 pitch climb where 2 pitches are hand size pro while the other three are smaller, and its at my limit of leading ability. I just want to get up the route with as little gear on me as possible for weight purposes but still be able to bring more with me in case we need it later.

H

I really can't tell if Marc is right, or if you are. Can you give examples of some of the routes you're contemplating doing that might require the second bringing that much additional gear?
Now that I've reread the OP, I realized I misinterpreted it the first time. I had *thought* the OP was talking about a 5.8 at the "limit of his leading ability" - now I get what he was implying. I also checked his profile which currently states that he leads 10c and follows 11d trad - but I also realize that may not have been updated in weeks/months/years/ever. But my basic point still stands - a 5 pitch route that is fingers to hands shouldn't require such a huge amount of extra gear that hauling is required - even in 5.12-5.13 land.

Whether you misread his OP or not, I think you're still *probably* right. But before I weighed in, I wanted to get some additional data, because I certainly could imagine a route that *would* require a lot of extra gear. I must say that in nearly 15 years of climbing, I've never had to do anything like that, but I'm perfectly happy to hear what the OP has in mind before jumping to any conclusions.

For example, imagine a four pitch route that follows a single crack that slowly, over four pitches, goes from tips to wide offwidth. Neither the leader nor the second is going to want to climb that first pitch of tips to wide fingers while carrying an entire pitch worth of wide gear on him. A mini-haul would be a great solution.

GO
We're in agreement.


Partner cracklover


Sep 26, 2012, 8:32 AM
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Re: [guangzhou] Haul Bag? [In reply to]
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Guanzhou, could you please fix your post? I didn't say that.

Thanks,

GO


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