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bcrocks
Sep 7, 2002, 11:51 PM
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I want to lead climb with my friend but there is a big differnce of weight between us (80 pound). Is it a big problem ? ...
(I can't attach me on the ground) Is there a solution because i don't want to goes 10 meters in the air
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jerrygarcia
Sep 8, 2002, 12:10 AM
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Use an equalizing anchor that will hold you in an upwards pull. You should use one regardless of the weight ratio on a lead belay.
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cyberclimber
Sep 8, 2002, 12:48 AM
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You say, "(I can't attach me on the ground)". I have heard of situations where this is true, but I have never found such a situation myself. If at all possible, anchor the belayer, no matter the weight difference. I am similar in weight with my usual belayer, and we have sometimes skipped having the belayer anchored, but do as I say, not as I do,,,anchor the belayer. Last week I took a 20 ft whipper that puller her off her feet and she ended up with a nasty scrape on her leg. We will have the belayer anchored from now on. In the very rare occasion where there absolutely is nothing to construct an anchor with, consider putting weight in your pack and anchor to that,,, but only as a last resort.
Be safe out there.
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jt512
Sep 8, 2002, 2:59 AM
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Yes, there is a problem. Don't belay him leading unless you can anchor in. Your weight difference is too great to belay him unanchored.
-Jay
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wlderdude
Sep 8, 2002, 3:49 AM
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I know what it is like being light. Last summer I canoed with someone who weighed 320 lbs! That's about two and a holf times my 140 lbs. After capizing a few times, he sat in the middle and I paddled from the helm by myself.
Yeah, anchor yourself in well.
The rocks in the pack isn't a bad idea if nothing else works.
You may also want to make sure and have enough friction in the system if this guy is that much heavier tahn you are used to. You can turn an HMS biner over to the smaller end or use a smaller biner for your belay.
Good luck!
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missedyno
Sep 8, 2002, 3:20 PM
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i've belayed a leader considerably heavier than me....
i make sure that i'm always facing the wall, paying reeeeeally close attention. for their safety and yours. when they fall, i fly, and hit the wall with the bottoms of my feet. then i let myself down....
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bcrocks
Sep 10, 2002, 8:22 PM
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OK thanks !! I will try to attach me to the ground
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thomasribiere
Sep 10, 2002, 8:29 PM
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i am very light too (51 kg = 115 lbs) and i often belays guys 40-70 lbs heavier than me. And i often go up 1 or 2 ft high, even 4 meters one time : the leader and i were at yhe same level, and we were turning around each other. What a mess with the rope, and what a laugh : fortunately, noone was hurt.
I never attached myself to the ground, but it's not always easy to belay a heavy guy, that's for sure!
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vaness
Sep 11, 2002, 1:11 AM
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is it possible for you to lead the route and then be;ay him from the top?
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bcrocks
Sep 11, 2002, 1:49 AM
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Yeah but he wants to lead... It's so more fun then TR
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alpineguy
Oct 22, 2003, 2:01 AM
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While it is easy to say that one should always anchor at the bottom of a route, I have to say that I disagree, at least partially.
If there is significant rope drag, especially if you just led the route and your friend is toproping it, you might get away with belaying a person much heavier than you. It is also important to consider objective hazards, will you be able to avoid falling rocks, etc.
I remember one occasion sport climbing at Rumney in March, I was belaying a guy much heavier than me, and had asked myself whether I might be better off anchoring to an opportune tree, I decided it wouldn't be necessary. Mid climb, we heard a wild crack, and a volkswagen sized block of ice came tearing off of a crag uphill from us. We ducked for cover and the iceblock smashed into the tree I had almost anchored into, nearly obliterating it.
So don't blindly rely on hard and fast rules, there are situations where anchoring in is necessary, there are also situations where you're better off not to.
just my 2 cents
Geoff
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fyreflii
Oct 24, 2003, 8:26 PM
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I'm about 130 lbs and I've belayed guys nearly twice my weight on lead. We've set up some really creative anchors, but at least I'll never go anywhere! Once used an extra old rope wrapped around a boulder a way behind me :wink: My biggest fear about not being anchored to something is that I will subconsciously put my hands out to stop me from a good face-bashing, and in the process let go of the rope. I don't trust myself enough, and I don't want the leader to have anything else to worry about below him while climbing, so anchors are always the best decision.
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jt512
Oct 24, 2003, 9:54 PM
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In reply to: I'm about 130 lbs and I've belayed guys nearly twice my weight on lead. We've set up some really creative anchors, but at least I'll never go anywhere! Once used an extra old rope wrapped around a boulder a way behind me :wink:
No comment.
In reply to: My biggest fear about not being anchored to something is that I will subconsciously put my hands out to stop me from a good face-bashing, and in the process let go of the rope.
You need to learn to use your legs for that. If you get pulled up, stick your legs out in front of you to absorb the impact when you swing into the wall. Keep your hands on the rope. They should play no role in breaking your swing into the wall. It would be good for you to practice this in a controlled environment, so that you know you will react correctly when it happens unexpectedly. Maybe you could have your partner take some short falls close to the ground at the gym for practice.
-Jay
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mreardon
Oct 24, 2003, 11:12 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: I'm about 130 lbs and I've belayed guys nearly twice my weight on lead. We've set up some really creative anchors, but at least I'll never go anywhere! Once used an extra old rope wrapped around a boulder a way behind me :wink: No comment. In reply to: My biggest fear about not being anchored to something is that I will subconsciously put my hands out to stop me from a good face-bashing, and in the process let go of the rope. You need to learn to use your legs for that. If you get pulled up, stick your legs out in front of you to absorb the impact when you swing into the wall. Keep your hands on the rope. They should play no role in breaking your swing into the wall. It would be good for you to practice this in a controlled environment, so that you know you will react correctly when it happens unexpectedly. Maybe you could have your partner take some short falls close to the ground at the gym for practice. -Jay
Gotta agree with JT on this one. I don't like either myself or my belayer anchored to the ground in any situation except for extreme weight differences. But you should practice falling to get comfortable regardless.
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nickb
Oct 28, 2003, 2:30 AM
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From my experience of catching and being caught by people of all sizes. I have found that if the difference in weight is more than ten to twenty pounds than remedial measures are in order. If a significantly heavier climber is belaying a light leader from the ground than an anchor is undesirable. In fact if the light leader is within 40 ft of the ground and won't hit anything it is much better for the leader if you jump in the air when they fall to soften the catch. A light belayer should be anchored most of the time. Any time they could hit something, like a roof, they should be anchored tight. If the belayer won't hit anything a tether with a little slack is in order to soften the catch. Rocks in your pack or a ropebag should add the needed poundage, if that's unavalible tieing two people togeather with a runner also works.
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jt512
Oct 28, 2003, 6:09 PM
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In reply to: From my experience of catching and being caught by people of all sizes. I have found that if the difference in weight is more than ten to twenty pounds than remedial measures are in order. If a significantly heavier climber is belaying a light leader from the ground than an anchor is undesirable. In fact if the light leader is within 40 ft of the ground and won't hit anything it is much better for the leader if you jump in the air when they fall to soften the catch. A light belayer should be anchored most of the time. Any time they could hit something, like a roof, they should be anchored tight. If the belayer won't hit anything a tether with a little slack is in order to soften the catch. Rocks in your pack or a ropebag should add the needed poundage, if that's unavalible tieing two people togeather with a runner also works.
Incredible as it may sound, I've managed to climb for 18 years, usually belaying partners who outweigh me by 30 to 60 lbs, without ever having to put rocks in my pack or tie myself to another climber. Nick, you wouldn't be a member of the SCMA, would you?
-Jay
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nickb
Oct 28, 2003, 8:08 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: From my experience of catching and being caught by people of all sizes. I have found that if the difference in weight is more than ten to twenty pounds than remedial measures are in order. If a significantly heavier climber is belaying a light leader from the ground than an anchor is undesirable. In fact if the light leader is within 40 ft of the ground and won't hit anything it is much better for the leader if you jump in the air when they fall to soften the catch. A light belayer should be anchored most of the time. Any time they could hit something, like a roof, they should be anchored tight. If the belayer won't hit anything a tether with a little slack is in order to soften the catch. Rocks in your pack or a ropebag should add the needed poundage, if that's unavalible tieing two people togeather with a runner also works. Incredible as it may sound, I've managed to climb for 18 years, usually belaying partners who outweigh me by 30 to 60 lbs, without ever having to put rocks in my pack or tie myself to another climber. Nick, you wouldn't be a member of the SCMA, would you? -Jay
I base my opinion on 32 years of active climbing. I never used to anchor or care if my belayer was anchored either. Two experiences in the last couple of years changed my mind. My daughter who is about 50 lbs lighter than I am gets launched about 15-20 ft up if I come off. We do enough sport climbing that this has been tested a few times. Yes, she can and has put her feet out and everything was fine. But, roofs above her or ledges below me can be a real problem. I also witnessed a friend fall off who weighs about 50 lbs more than his un-anchored belayer. The belyer was ripped off the ground into a tree branch injuring his hand. Nobody got dropped. It could have been bad. The other side of the coin was displayed a couple of weeks ago when my daughter came off a sport route , I didn't jump to soften the catch and when she hit the wall with her feet she tweeked her ankle. The next time she fell I jumped and all was fine. It's all about reading the situation and using common sense. Just like helmets.
Oh, Jeez. Not that again.
What is the SCMA?
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jt512
Oct 28, 2003, 8:26 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: From my experience of catching and being caught by people of all sizes. I have found that if the difference in weight is more than ten to twenty pounds than remedial measures are in order. If a significantly heavier climber is belaying a light leader from the ground than an anchor is undesirable. In fact if the light leader is within 40 ft of the ground and won't hit anything it is much better for the leader if you jump in the air when they fall to soften the catch. A light belayer should be anchored most of the time. Any time they could hit something, like a roof, they should be anchored tight. If the belayer won't hit anything a tether with a little slack is in order to soften the catch. Rocks in your pack or a ropebag should add the needed poundage, if that's unavalible tieing two people togeather with a runner also works. Incredible as it may sound, I've managed to climb for 18 years, usually belaying partners who outweigh me by 30 to 60 lbs, without ever having to put rocks in my pack or tie myself to another climber. Nick, you wouldn't be a member of the SCMA, would you? -Jay I base my opinion on 32 years of active climbing. I never used to anchor or care if my belayer was anchored either. Two experiences in the last couple of years changed my mind. My daughter who is about 50 lbs lighter than I am gets launched about 15-20 ft up if I come off. We do enough sport climbing that this has been tested a few times. Yes, she can and has put her feet out and everything was fine. But, roofs above her or ledges below me can be a real problem.
Three points: First, a 50-lb weight difference is substantial, and is in the neighborhood of where you want your belayer to generally be anchored. In your first post, though, you said that as little as 10-20 lbs you'd be concerned. In my experience, a 10-20 lb weight difference is inconsequential. 50 lbs is another matter. Secondly, even with the 50-lb difference, your daughter handled the catch properly, and the result was a safe, dynamic catch for you and no danger to your daughter. Third point: if there is a roof for the belayer to hit or a ledge for the climber to hit, that is a different story. So the decision to anchor is situational.
In reply to: What is the SCMA?
Sorry. That was sort of an inside joke around SoCal. The SCMA is a local climbing club, whose ideas about safety have often seemed curious to me. When you suggested putting rocks in backpacks and tying two belayers together, I thought of the SCMA.
-Jay
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nickb
Oct 29, 2003, 7:53 PM
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Three points: First, a 50-lb weight difference is substantial, and is in the neighborhood of where you want your belayer to generally be anchored. In your first post, though, you said that as little as 10-20 lbs you'd be concerned. In my experience, a 10-20 lb weight difference is inconsequential. 50 lbs is another matter. Secondly, even with the 50-lb difference, your daughter handled the catch properly, and the result was a safe, dynamic catch for you and no danger to your daughter. Third point: if there is a roof for the belayer to hit or a ledge for the climber to hit, that is a different story. So the decision to anchor is situational.
In reply to: What is the SCMA?
Sorry. That was sort of an inside joke around SoCal. The SCMA is a local climbing club, whose ideas about safety have often seemed curious to me. When you suggested putting rocks in backpacks and tying two belayers together, I thought of the SCMA.
-Jay
OK, 20 lbs is a bit conservative. But, I still think that somewhere around 30 lbs or so is where most folk ought to start anchoring in. If you have lot's of experience than it is easier to make the correct decision and often forgo the anchor. I don't think that people asking these anchoring questions have lots of experience. I think most of them are looking for some safe general guidelines.
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nickb
Oct 29, 2003, 7:54 PM
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Three points: First, a 50-lb weight difference is substantial, and is in the neighborhood of where you want your belayer to generally be anchored. In your first post, though, you said that as little as 10-20 lbs you'd be concerned. In my experience, a 10-20 lb weight difference is inconsequential. 50 lbs is another matter. Secondly, even with the 50-lb difference, your daughter handled the catch properly, and the result was a safe, dynamic catch for you and no danger to your daughter. Third point: if there is a roof for the belayer to hit or a ledge for the climber to hit, that is a different story. So the decision to anchor is situational.
In reply to: What is the SCMA?
Sorry. That was sort of an inside joke around SoCal. The SCMA is a local climbing club, whose ideas about safety have often seemed curious to me. When you suggested putting rocks in backpacks and tying two belayers together, I thought of the SCMA.
-Jay
OK, 20 lbs is a bit conservative. But, I still think that somewhere around 30 lbs or so is where most folk ought to start anchoring in. If you have lot's of experience than it is easier to make the correct decision and often forgo the anchor. I don't think that people asking these anchoring questions have lots of experience. I think most of them are looking for some safe general guidelines.
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