It is incredibly uncomfortable, and I've only tried it while upright and switching rappels. If we are operating undere the assumption that your belay loop has failed, then there is nothing keeping you from falling-out of your leg loops except your thigh straps (mine are dinky little elastic bands).
If this whole scenario is truly a concern for you, might I suggest a klemheist placed above your rappel device and tied-in to your rodeo bar. The klemheist is easier to loosen once weighted, and it is highly unlikely that you will be able to extrude your upper body (or lower, in the case you become inverted) through your swami belt. Placing the stopper-knot above your rappel device will also decrease the extension in the system in the event of failure, and will prevent whip-lash.

As bill413 had said, if you put the back up onto your rap loop, and it fails the prussic or klemhiest isnt going to do much. Every class I had taken in the last 5 years had taught the back up goes BELOW the rap device and that the other end goes into your leg loop. It is easier to release if you loose control of your back up, there is less force on the back up cord or webbing and yes it will be uncomfortable if the rap loop breaks, but you arent going to deck.

the reason that most people give for placing your backup BELOW the belay device is because you can shockload your backup and depending on the device, damage your rope.

what i do is extend my belay device (shorter than my weighted, upward reach) and place my backup (a petzl shunt - which is a mechanical prussik) on a biner on my belay loop.

more details -- I have a 7mm cord that is girth hitched through my tie-in points extending my rap device about 2 feet off of my harness, once again my backup is on my belay loop. This system is redundant and i can still reach above my belay device to unweight it, should i need to.

Another way to eliminate your fear of the belay loop breaking is to get a metolius safe-tech harness. Almost every piece on that harness is rated to withstand a fall (except for the leg bungees in the back, i believe)

or you can go all out and get a metolius safe-tech waldo - which has 2 belay loops.

hope that helps

My mistake, I shall detail the parts of a harness for those too unedjumicated to figure it out. I submit that tying the klemheist into the upper tie-in point on the harness is more safe because it prevents falling out of your harness during inversion. Tying your stopper knot to the (failing) belay loop would not be redundant, making the whole venture pointless. Whereas it is easier to release the knot when placed below, it is going to hurt like hell in the event of failure. In the interest of conserving both time and energy, I propose that anyone who is actually concerned about the possibility of their belay loop breaking should immediately purchase a new harness.

Isn't a belay loop called a belay loop because its real purpose is to hold your ATC while you're belaying? I've used mine to rap from, but it makes me a little nervous, even though I've seen many, many MANY times that "It's the strongest point on your harness." 99% of the time, I'll put my locking biner around the waistband AND leg-connecting-web-thingy (did someone call that a "rodeo bar"?). And when I do that, it FEELS more secure, because there's more strong webbing under the biner. So, tell me why it's known as a "belay loop" and not a "rappel loop." (This thread is the very first time I've seen it called a "rap loop.")

I see my initial post digressing into a discussion re diff methods of backing up a rap. That's ok. But really, I was just thinking out loud, and wondering how far one should go in providing redundancy? Some links are stronger than others (both due to their material properties as well as to their configuration), but is it ever reasonable to rely on one single link if with modicum of effort a backup can be provided?

...and wondering how far one should go in providing redundancy? ...but is it ever reasonable to rely on one single link if with modicum of effort a backup can be provided?

The part that broke, called the belay loop, is designed to be the strongest part of the climbing harness, but Hewett, 34, said Skinner's harness was old.

"It was actually very worn," Hewett said. "I'd noted it a few days before, and he was aware it was something to be concerned about." Friends of Skinner said he had ordered several new harnesses but they hadn't yet arrived in the mail.

Rant.

First off, I'm glad that there is now a separate thread for all the worry-warts to nitpickover stupid points in, rather than in the thread about the Skinner tragedy. I've always really hated seeing memorial threads move into accident analysis.

NOW... none of us yet know the details of why or how Skinner's belay loop failed, but all this talk of a prussik backup, rapelling off of your tie-in loops, or whatever, is redundant, no pun intended.

There are always going to be single points of failure in climbing. There is a point at which we just accept this fact. I suppose that, next time a climber dies from a rope breaking on rappel, someone will suggest that now is the time to start rappeling attached to a second backup rope!

Bottom line is that belay loops are pretty goddamned bomber. They are easy to inspect, they are tack-stitched to hell, and many harnesses nowdays actually sew TWO belay loops into one for added redundancy. This is way more solid than any rope.

There is nothing wrong with belaying or rapping off of your tie-in points, other than perhaps an increased chance of cross-loaing or f---ing up on locking the biner due to harder visual inspection, but it is unnecessary.

it is always good to learn from accidents, but I think that the only thing we can learn from this is to INSPECT old belay loops, retire old gear, rather than start adding redundant and superfluous backups.



(p.s... if any of the safety freaks in here do start using their tie-off point or using clunky backups to their belay loop for rappeling, then they should also do so for belaying. That's just common courtesy, and to so otherwise would imply that you value your life more than your partner's.)

Got news for ya folks...belay loops can fail.

A friend of mine had one fail. Fortunately in a spot where nothing bad happened. No fault to the harness company...this was also an old, ratty, worn out harness that should have been replaced. .

For the last few years since that happened, I have tied a permanent piece of accessory cord to back up my belay loop. I've endured some quizzical looks, but it's cheap and easy and gives me piece of mind.

...and I back up all my rappels.