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mattheww
Sep 10, 2002, 4:27 AM
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Here's the situation. There's a climb near me that the first bolt is about 15' off the deck. Where the bolt is, you have to traverse right and then left after you go above it before you can clip in the second bolt. That means that at one point or another you will be back-cliped and chance decking in a fall if the rope comes out of the biner before cliping into the second bolt. My question is: would it be better to put 2 draws with gates opposing each other on the first bolt or use a locking biner. There's good ledge to stand on when cliping into the first one but above it, it gets a bit sketchy before the second bolt.
Thanks.
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waxtadpole
Sep 10, 2002, 4:35 AM
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both ways sound safe. best use the one you are comfortable with. I would probably go with the locking biner.
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duskerhu
Sep 10, 2002, 4:37 AM
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Not that I know, but are you sure you should be doing all that traversing??? Usually, the bolt line IS the climb and if you're going back and forth to and fro you may be off route... Weather harder or easier...
Just to make ya think...
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mattheww
Sep 10, 2002, 4:50 AM
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Its only about a foot or two either way so its not like I'm really going off the route. After you get to where you are about 2' strait above the first bolt you have to move to a small ledge 1-2' to the right and then smear up and then start smearing your way left, ending about a foot or two to the left of the first bolt. Some people I have seen climbing it with only one draw usually face the gate to the right because you will be on the left side when trying to clip into the second bolt. I'd rather be extra safe and add a little more pro on that first bolt myself but thats just me...
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krustyklimber
Sep 10, 2002, 5:27 AM
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Matthew,
I would say you should go with a locking carabiner, it is always a good idea if the first bolt is high, heck it is always a good idea.
Jeff
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nailzz
Sep 10, 2002, 6:59 AM
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Yes, throw a locker on there. It'll take two extra seconds, but well worth it.
Now a question. I'm having trouble visualising how traversing to the left and to the right (you do the hokey pokey and you turn yourself around .... ) will get you back-clipped.
Am I missing something here? The way I see it, it shouldn't matter which direction you go from the bolt, you either back-clipped yourself or not.
With that said, use a locker.
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jt512
Sep 10, 2002, 7:28 PM
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Having to climb both right and left above a bolt is common, and I'm not sure why people are having difficulty visualizing it. You won't be "backclipped," but you will at some point have the rope running across the gate of the draw. If the hanger will accommodate them, you can use two draws with gates on the rope-end biners reversed and opposed. Alternatively, you can use a draw with a locking biner. Or you can just not fall when you're on the side where the rope is going over the gate. I've used all three options at one time or another.
-Jay
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wlderdude
Sep 10, 2002, 7:36 PM
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Or, you could just add a whole bunch of new bolts!
(this ough to get some people upset so that your topic goes on for a long time)
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radistrad
Sep 10, 2002, 7:43 PM
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I face the gate (biner the rope is cliped into) away from the direction I am climbing.
When in doubt I'll use a locker!
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thrillseeker05
Sep 10, 2002, 7:44 PM
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I wouldnt suggest back clippig at all. doesnt sound like you need to. clip the quick with the spine going the direction that you mostly would be pulling after the first clip... or just put a locking biner on.
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tigerbythetail
Sep 10, 2002, 7:54 PM
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My rack has a quickdraw with a locking biner on the bottom end for situations where I absolutely don't want the rope to come out...situations like a long easy slab to a headwall, a high first bolt or a runout after the bolt. It provides peace of mind- and although sometimes asked if the rope ever came out before I started using this system (never) all it takes is once to get seriously injured or worse. Do what it takes to make yourself safe and put your mind at ease.
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krustyklimber
Sep 10, 2002, 8:10 PM
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I just thought of an old one we used to do before quick draws... We would flip the biner so it was gate up, that way you could not "fall through" the gate. It would make clipping harder but it would keep the rope in in a fall.
Does anyone know why that would be bad?
Jeff
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mattheww
Sep 10, 2002, 9:33 PM
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Sorry about saying backcliped I wasn't thinking. jt512 hit it on the head with his reply. Thanks for the answers, I'll use a locking biner on that first bolt. As far as turning the biner around so the gate opens at the top, sounds like it would work to me but I'm curious what others think about it.
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