|
mojavedesertrat
Nov 14, 2006, 11:01 PM
Post #1 of 14
(2490 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 25, 2005
Posts: 18
|
so I'm currently working out the kinks in a teach-myself-solo-aid rig, and I'm wondering about rapping on one strand of rope (rather than the normal, doubled-up way).
Is this what is normally done?
It seems one's efficiency would be cut greatly if one could only go 1/2 a rope length per pitch. Any special precautions or anything associated rapping on one strand?
thanks.
|
|
|
|
|
radistrad
Nov 14, 2006, 11:08 PM
Post #2 of 14
(2480 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 25, 2002
Posts: 800
|
if you're solo aid climbing and you need to rap the pitch to clean it, you would fix a single line to rap and to jug back up. if your bailing you better have two ropes
|
|
|
|
|
j_ung
Nov 14, 2006, 11:16 PM
Post #3 of 14
(2468 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 21, 2003
Posts: 18690
|
No, no... a single line is how that's normally done. If you aren't getting the friction you want and the rappel is, shall we say, speedy, try running the rope through two biners, instead of just one. Or, what do you use for self belay? If it's a Gri-gri, rap on that.
|
|
|
|
|
stymingersfink
Nov 15, 2006, 3:05 AM
Post #4 of 14
(2419 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 12, 2003
Posts: 7250
|
you may find that there are times when it will be more difficult to clean on rappel than it would be to rap your haul/tag/secondary line back to the anchors below you.
Which is to say, lead the pitch, fix the lead line, set your haul (if hauling), rap secondary line back to anchors you started from (in my case, my haul line). Release the bags, jug/clean the lead line, haul the pigs.
Lather, rinse, repeat - till you get to the top.
Or, whatever holdplease2 has to offer you in the way of input.
|
|
|
|
|
holdplease2
Nov 15, 2006, 7:33 AM
Post #5 of 14
(2392 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 18, 2002
Posts: 1733
|
haha...ok, maybe I have a little too much time on my hands, Stymingers.  The sequence that Mr. Fink uses is the one that I use most often.
Either way, whether you rap the lead line (cleaning on rappel) or the haul line, you will have to be rapping a single line. Additionally, you may be using something like a 9 mil static haul line which further reduces your available friction due to reduced diameter. If this is the case you might be a little extra gripped with a standard ATC-type device.
If you don't carry a grigri, you might consider a "Trango Jaws" or "ATC guide" type of device which uses v notches to increase friction. If you ever have to bail with a heavy pig, you'll be glad you had a device that helps you control all of that weight. Stuffing in an extra biner works, too.
On a solo wall, though, a grigri has many potential uses...it can be used as an ascender if you drop one, you can self-belay with it, you can use it as part of a mechanical advantage haul. I wouldn't leave the ground without one, and in fact, for longer walls I carry a spare. (yup, lame, but at least I don't have to worry about dropping it. It would suck to do without one)
Regarding cleaning on rappel: I don't do this unless I'm soloing with a single rope and have no choice. No real reason other than that it is easy enough to jug and clean.
The only exception is if you have climbed an expanding feature. In this case, it is very nice to clean on rappel, removing the top pieces first. If you remove the bottom pieces first, the feature clamps progressively tigher on the top pieces which risks making cams especially difficult to remove.
Hope this helps, and have fun learning.
-Kate.
|
|
|
|
|
mojavedesertrat
Nov 16, 2006, 12:17 AM
Post #6 of 14
(2328 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 25, 2005
Posts: 18
|
well... I just went to my local gear shop and dropped a few bucks on 4 aiders, 2 daisys, and 2 jugs.
That's one small step toward getting there.
|
|
|
|
|
lambone
Nov 16, 2006, 9:04 AM
Post #7 of 14
(2279 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 1, 2003
Posts: 1399
|
in addition to what good advice others have posted:
make sure your anchor is bomber and climb steep or overhanging pitches if the aid is weird or hard.
it can sometimes speed things up if you clean a piece or two while rapping the haul line if you can reach it.
for instance, on a traversing pitch you can cut down on the number of lower outs you might need to do when jugging the leadline/cleaning.
I have been able to completely eliminate cleaning pendulums at times just by snagging a key peice on the way down (like the pendulum point).
This is one of the benefits of soloing. You can protect yourself without creating rope drag, and avoid wierd standard cleaning trickery while on you way down the haul line. Assuming you can reach the gear.
If the pitch is straight up I just rap to the belay. Do't rap to fast or you can melt the sheath of your ropes. Happened to me on WC last summer.
cheers
~bone
(This post was edited by lambone on Nov 16, 2006, 9:08 AM)
|
|
|
|
|
stymingersfink
Nov 17, 2006, 2:46 AM
Post #8 of 14
(2199 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 12, 2003
Posts: 7250
|
In reply to: it can sometimes speed things up if you clean a piece or two while rapping the haul line if you can reach it. for instance, on a traversing pitch you can cut down on the number of lower outs you might need to do when jugging the leadline/cleaning. I have been able to completely eliminate cleaning pendulums at times just by snagging a key peice on the way down (like the pendulum point). This is one of the benefits of soloing. You can protect yourself without creating rope drag, and avoid wierd standard cleaning trickery while on you way down the haul line. Assuming you can reach the gear. cheers ~bone
couple things to keep in mind when practicing Mr. Bone's suggestion:
When a pitch traverses, each piece of pro MUST be no further to the left or right than you may reach to at full extension, otherwise you will be creating a lower-out point, which necessitates leaving a piece of gear behind. When you find a fixed piece of gear with a mess of tat hanging from it, you can figure that you are at a lower-out point and you will most likely be hooking for a distance while leading.
If, in rapping the haul line you remove a key piece of gear, it will be YOUR piece of gear you lower out from. No worries though, the next one up the route might clean it for you. just don't count on getting it back.
One scenario where Mr. Bone's suggestion would certainly work would be a line that moves up, zigs right, then moves back left. In such a case cleaning the pieces right of the plumb line will do you no harm.
I have on occasion cleaned from a hook, then lowered out from the hook. A simple flip of the rope will release the hook and you're on your way with no pieces sacrificed! Similarly, a piece of tat hung over a rivit head can be used when necessary.
~Sty
|
|
|
|
|
iamthewallress
Nov 17, 2006, 2:59 AM
Post #9 of 14
(2191 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 2, 2003
Posts: 2463
|
In reply to: Any special precautions or anything associated rapping on one strand?
Often when you get to the end of your pitch, you'll fix the rope where it's at, put yourself on rappel, and untie to rap back to the bottom anchor. Quadruple check that you've put yourself on the long side of the rope.
When you're thinking of a hundred things and the short end is kind of long, it's easier than you'd think to screw this up. I know of a few people who've goofed this up and come really close to taking the ride. In two seperate cases a gri-gri engaging after the end had gone through the rappers' hands w/ mere inches of rope to spare is what saved their lives.
(This post was edited by iamthewallress on Nov 17, 2006, 3:02 AM)
|
|
|
|
|
lambone
Nov 17, 2006, 8:59 AM
Post #10 of 14
(2154 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 1, 2003
Posts: 1399
|
iamthewallress,
why leave a "short end" at all? I clip the end of the line I am fixing straight to the powerpoint. Only one end to rap on then.
sty,
good point, I guess I meant cleaning my pro and leaving the fixed pendi/lower out points. sorry for the confusion. Couple pitches in mind that I did this one were Nipple Pitch on Zod, and the pitch to Tapir Terrace.
matt
|
|
|
|
|
iamthewallress
Nov 17, 2006, 6:46 PM
Post #11 of 14
(2060 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 2, 2003
Posts: 2463
|
In reply to: iamthewallress, why leave a "short end" at all? I clip the end of the line I am fixing straight to the powerpoint. Only one end to rap on then.
I don't understand what you're getting at? I fixed to the power point too. Unless I've done a 200 foot pitch the fixing point is still somewhere in the middle of the rope, typically w/ the pitch being "the long end" and the leftover being "the short end".
Of course, if you're fixing on the haul line, you'll probably have the end clipped in to the anchor somewhere even if you've pulled up the slack. I recommend pulling up the slack on everything before you rap b/c if it snags you can free it up on your way down and won't need to make a special trip.
|
|
|
|
|
lambone
Nov 17, 2006, 7:04 PM
Post #12 of 14
(2043 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 1, 2003
Posts: 1399
|
Hi wallress,
I see your point. I guess I don't usually pull up the extra slak in the haul line at the anchor. Instead I pull it through a mini-traxion attached to the haulbag and use the slack as the lower out line for the pig. Like the far-end hauler method.
If I'm not doing that then I do as you say and fix the line somewheer in the middle and coil up the short end.
Good tip though, one of my friends lost a partner after a Baffin Island summit because he rapped off the short end of one of their fixed lines.
(This post was edited by lambone on Nov 17, 2006, 7:06 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
stymingersfink
Nov 18, 2006, 3:21 AM
Post #13 of 14
(1978 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 12, 2003
Posts: 7250
|
RE: rapping the haul line.
Set you anchor, place your Pro-Traxion where you want to haul from, engage your haul line in the pulley and clip the end of the haul line to the PP. Now pull about 20' of haul line through the pulley and tie another butterfly knot and clip it to the PP as well. this will give you a little rope to work with if body-hauling (which is the only way to move some heavy pigs, IMHO) NOW rap down to your previous anchor, where the tail of your haul line is anchored. If a route traverses to one side, you will end up rapping lower than your anchor, then jugging back up to the pigs, so make sure there's enough slack in your rope to accomplish this if it's what you need to do. Once you arrive at the anchor, pull the haul line taut, tie a butterfly and clip it to the locker above your swivel. With the tail of the rope, tie a muenter hitch through a larger locker clipped directly to a bolt, then use this hitch to lower your bags in a controlled manner post-undocking. Now you can jug/clean your fixed lead line. Be sure to tie into the end of your lead and clip b/u loops every so often.
('bone: nipple pitch was a kick in the pants, leaving 3 lower-outs for my cleaner: the broken arrow in the corner, the Huber anchor, and a fixed nut 10' before the nipple bolt. the rest was leapfrogging cam hooks...good, clean fun!)
|
|
|
|
|
mojavedesertrat
Nov 18, 2006, 10:01 PM
Post #14 of 14
(1932 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 25, 2005
Posts: 18
|
shit.
So much for trying out my new gear this weekend.
Just sliced off 1/2 of my fingernail and a chunk of finger down to the muscle with a knife. Cutting cheese no less.
damn.
|
|
|
|
|
|
