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Destroy the Constitution to save it...
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traddad


Nov 28, 2006, 10:54 AM
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Destroy the Constitution to save it...
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In reply to:
Newt Gingrich said that America may need to reexamine freedom of speech in order to prevent future terrorist attacks.
According to a New England newspaper, Newt Gingrich "spoke to about 400 state and local power brokers last night at the annual Nackey S. Loeb First Amendment award dinner, which fetes people and organizations that stand up for freedom of speech."
Gingrich said that a "different set of rules" should be considered to reduce the ability of terrorists to use the Internet and abuse free speech to get out their message.
"We need to get ahead of the curve before we actually lose a city, which I think could happen in the next decade," Gingrich said.
Gingrich also said that he would make a decision whether or not to run for president by September of 2007.

The Man who won't be President.


dingus


Nov 28, 2006, 11:31 AM
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Re: [traddad] Destroy the Constitution to save it... [In reply to]
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Yes we've had enough of the Good Ship NeoCon pirates.

ARRRGGGGHHHHHH! I hope he runs as it will seal the doom of the republican party in 08.

DMT


stymingersfink


Nov 28, 2006, 12:28 PM
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Re: [traddad] Destroy the Constitution to save it... [In reply to]
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Newt Gingrich wrote:
"<snip> I think <snip>"


he's right, really. We (the people) need to reexamine freedom of speech and shore up the foundations of it, which the fucking politicians have been chipping away at most aggressively these past few years.


tatertot


Dec 4, 2006, 6:27 PM
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Re: [stymingersfink] Destroy the Constitution to save it... [In reply to]
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I dont know how we could "reexamine" our most fundamental right. If we were to take away any little bit of freedom of speech wouldnt that be the biggest hypocritical thing this country has ever done. Hell, if it wasn't for freedom of speech, we would all have funny accents, and that would just be a bloody mess if ya know what im talking about. so no we shouldn't limit speech we will just endure like we have


reno


Dec 4, 2006, 7:23 PM
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Re: [tatertot] Destroy the Constitution to save it... [In reply to]
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So, you'd object to the concept of "Hate Crimes", then?


petsfed


Dec 4, 2006, 9:10 PM
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Re: [reno] Destroy the Constitution to save it... [In reply to]
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I always thought that the concept of "hate crime" was dangerously close to the concept of "thought crime". We are here punishing motive, rather than action. As yet, its not illegal to simply think things that the government doesn't like. But the premise behind hate crimes is that if your crime is motivated by certain thoughts that we don't approve of, it is somehow worse, like the thought was an additional crime. That's a dangerously slippery slope there. The irony of it is that hate crime legislation was motivated by a cause I support, the end of hate. Robbing St. Peter to pay St. Paul, eh?


squierbypetzl
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Dec 12, 2006, 11:26 PM
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Re: [reno] Destroy the Constitution to save it... [In reply to]
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reno wrote:
So, you'd object to the concept of "Hate Crimes", then?

Sorry but I just donīt see how this fits into the thread.

I for one am completely enamoured by the anarchy that reigns on the interweb. Sure, you get some reaaaaally bad apples (quite a lot Iīm sure), but I vote fuck no for near any legislation trying to limit what I can write, display, upload etc on the internet, with the exception of pedophelia, snuffs and such, the really illegal stuff (I personally couldnīt care less about farmhouse pr0n, let people enjoy themselves... i guess).

And anyway, is being anti-american while living in the USA an actual crime? Like a real, written down on paper, legally enforced by the government crime?

note: crimes violate legal norms, actions that violate social/religious/moral laws are very different.


jbird2


Dec 13, 2006, 6:59 AM
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Re: [squierbypetzl] Destroy the Constitution to save it... [In reply to]
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Why couldn't we just determine good genes vs. "bad" genes and mandate that every child born with bad genes be sterlized at birth, so that in just a few generations we can achieve utopia?


vertical_reality


Dec 13, 2006, 10:29 AM
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Re: [tatertot] Destroy the Constitution to save it... [In reply to]
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tatertot wrote:
I dont know how we could "reexamine" our most fundamental right. If we were to take away any little bit of freedom of speech wouldnt that be the biggest hypocritical thing this country has ever done. Hell, if it wasn't for freedom of speech, we would all have funny accents, and that would just be a bloody mess if ya know what im talking about. so no we shouldn't limit speech we will just endure like we have

I hate to break it to you but you've already lost your freedom of speech and it's mostly due to the citizens, not the government. You can't say "Merry Christmas" and you can't say anything negative about the government. Doing either results in critizism. Those are just a few examples, there are many more. Heaven forbid you say anything that might offend someone else.


observer


Dec 13, 2006, 11:53 AM
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Re: [vertical_reality] Destroy the Constitution to save it... [In reply to]
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I say Merry X-Mas all the time, and it generally makes people smile.


tatertot


Dec 13, 2006, 6:56 PM
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Registered: Feb 18, 2005
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Re: [vertical_reality] Destroy the Constitution to save it... [In reply to]
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vertical_reality wrote:
tatertot wrote:
I dont know how we could "reexamine" our most fundamental right. If we were to take away any little bit of freedom of speech wouldnt that be the biggest hypocritical thing this country has ever done. Hell, if it wasn't for freedom of speech, we would all have funny accents, and that would just be a bloody mess if ya know what im talking about. so no we shouldn't limit speech we will just endure like we have



I hate to break it to you but you've already lost your freedom of speech and it's mostly due to the citizens, not the government. You can't say "Merry Christmas" and you can't say anything negative about the government. Doing either results in critizism. Those are just a few examples, there are many more. Heaven forbid you say anything that might offend someone else.

Yeah it results is critizism but its not illegal you can say bad things about the government. You can change the government. I say Merry Christmas all the time. I say things about people all the time. If I didnt criticize people, and people dont criticize me then we would all be very narrow minded and not intellectual at all. Don't be a pansy and take critizism in a bad way, use it and learn from it as you do from mistakes.


reno


Dec 14, 2006, 6:07 AM
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Re: [vertical_reality] Destroy the Constitution to save it... [In reply to]
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vertical_reality wrote:
I hate to break it to you but you've already lost your freedom of speech and it's mostly due to the citizens, not the government. You can't say "Merry Christmas" and you can't say anything negative about the government.

The government sucks.

(Testing the theory... let's see what happens.)

In reply to:
Doing either results in critizism.

Whoa, there, turbo. Getting criticized for your speech and not having free speech are two VASTLY different things. Criticism, critique, or disagreement may be results, but everything in life has consequence. Say something, expect there to be consequences. But to think that is the same as not having freedom to speak is just wrong.


awilson86


Dec 20, 2006, 6:39 PM
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Re: [reno] Destroy the Constitution to save it... [In reply to]
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i firmly believe your right to free speech only extends until it takes a freedom from someone else.
a freedom you have should never be used to supress the freedom of another. you can own a gun, but when you use that gun to take a freedom from someone (say property) it is now a crime. why shoudlnt the same be true for speach or press.


frodolf


Dec 20, 2006, 7:02 PM
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Re: [awilson86] Destroy the Constitution to save it... [In reply to]
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Isn't the whole idea with freedom of speech that you are allowed to say things that are "uncomfortable" for some one else (goverments/officials/humans)? Why otherwise should we have that freedom?
That's what I firmly believe.

(living next door to Denmark, I've had this discussion a few times by now Smile )


(This post was edited by frodolf on Dec 20, 2006, 7:04 PM)


awilson86


Dec 20, 2006, 7:45 PM
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Re: [frodolf] Destroy the Constitution to save it... [In reply to]
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what happens what that freedom harms others such as...
that reporter that was giving away troop locations. they called it freedom of press, but it gave away the locations of troops and thereby endangering them.
is that ok? is it ok to put troops in the line of fire because we want to know everything?


frodolf


Dec 20, 2006, 8:12 PM
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Re: [awilson86] Destroy the Constitution to save it... [In reply to]
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No, that sucks, and is probably close to treason... I think?

But I think it should be (legally) ok to have any opinion you like, and to say it out loud - and this in any forum (papers/books/internet/demonstrations).
Racism, anti-semitism, communism - all these opinions we sometimes think is a threat to people in a democracies, but if we're so stupid to elect nazis for goverment, then we're the ones to blame - not the ideology.

I think I'm even more liberal than most on this, my opinion is that everything should be allowed to be said - the more openness the better. With oppeness comes knowledge, and with knowledge cames acceptance and understanding, and also dismissal of ideas. Oppressing thoughts have never ever been a good idea.

But there must naturally be limits, as you clearly points out.


(This post was edited by frodolf on Dec 20, 2006, 8:17 PM)


danpayne


Dec 21, 2006, 9:12 AM
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Re: [awilson86] Destroy the Constitution to save it... [In reply to]
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awilson86 wrote:
what happens what that freedom harms others such as...
that reporter that was giving away troop locations. they called it freedom of press, but it gave away the locations of troops and thereby endangering them.
is that ok? is it ok to put troops in the line of fire because we want to know everything?

Well of course, its like the old saying "Freedom of speech does NOT mean you can yell fire in a movie theatre" It's not the speech thats punishable, its the action.
The government is already trying to censor the internet. and yes, its both dems and republicans. Two sides to the same coin. Yay! The dems won congress last election, well guess what folks, the lobbyists just switch seats, and it's business as usual. Anyone who tells you they know what you should and shouldnt read/see is FUCKING you. They are stealing your liberties, and swelling their own powers.

We "the people" are supposed to be the soverign ones, WE are supposed to oversee the government, WE are supposed to tell the government what to do for us.
Democracy is a small twinkle of only around 200 years in over 10,000 years of oppression, tryanny, and evil. And if/when the next major attack happens to America, we should each be prepared to stand up and ask "What did I do wrong?" Not cower and ask our government "What do we do now?"


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