Dec 8, 2006, 9:24 PM
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Re: [climbsomething] What do you think is the best "first shoe?"
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ooohhhh.... i don't know which to pick.
i'd say something comfortable; snug but not painful. comfy enough that they could be worn for an hour or two at a time. something with good rubber so the climber can learn to trust them. something cheap 'cause with beginner footwork beginners are going to go through their first pair quickly. something stiffer because their feet need more support until those muscles adapt?
Dec 8, 2006, 9:51 PM
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Re: [climbsomething] What do you think is the best "first shoe?"
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Unless the climber for some god-awful reason wants to specialize in trad climbing from the get-go, his first pair of shoes should ideally be slippers, or some other sensitive shoe. The ability to feel the holds with the feet is very helpful for developing good footwork. Starting of with stiff "beginner" shoes is a big mistake, as it hinders the development of footwork and ingrains an upper-body orientation to climbing.
Unless the climber for some god-awful reason wants to specialize in trad climbing from the get-go, his first pair of shoes should ideally be slippers, or some other sensitive shoe. The ability to feel the holds with the feet is very helpful for developing good footwork. Starting of with stiff "beginner" shoes is a big mistake, as it hinders the development of footwork and ingrains an upper-body orientation to climbing.
Jay
I've never really looked at it that way, and I agree with you. I started off with the typical stiff shoe (Mad Rock Phoenix) and I feel that it is very lacking when working on my footwork and I now regret starting off that way, but I feel the next step for me might be an aggressive velcro shoe like the 5.10 Anasazi.
Dec 9, 2006, 5:14 AM
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Re: [mercphony] What do you think is the best "first shoe?"
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mercphony wrote:
jt512 wrote:
Unless the climber for some god-awful reason wants to specialize in trad climbing from the get-go, his first pair of shoes should ideally be slippers, or some other sensitive shoe. The ability to feel the holds with the feet is very helpful for developing good footwork. Starting of with stiff "beginner" shoes is a big mistake, as it hinders the development of footwork and ingrains an upper-body orientation to climbing.
Jay
I've never really looked at it that way, and I agree with you. I started off with the typical stiff shoe (Mad Rock Phoenix) and I feel that it is very lacking when working on my footwork and I now regret starting off that way, but I feel the next step for me might be an aggressive velcro shoe like the 5.10 Anasazi.
The Anasazi Velcro is fine. After a few sessions they soften up and feel like Mocassyms anyway.
Unless the climber for some god-awful reason wants to specialize in trad climbing from the get-go, his first pair of shoes should ideally be slippers, or some other sensitive shoe. The ability to feel the holds with the feet is very helpful for developing good footwork. Starting of with stiff "beginner" shoes is a big mistake, as it hinders the development of footwork and ingrains an upper-body orientation to climbing.
Jay
I've never really looked at it that way, and I agree with you. I started off with the typical stiff shoe (Mad Rock Phoenix) and I feel that it is very lacking when working on my footwork and I now regret starting off that way, but I feel the next step for me might be an aggressive velcro shoe like the 5.10 Anasazi.
The Anasazi Velcro is fine. After a few sessions they soften up and feel like Mocassyms anyway.
Jay
Of course, the Mad Rock Phoenix are fine shoes too, unless you're planning on climbing harder than about V10 or 5.13. Even then, I doubt the shoes would be the limiting factor.
Unless the climber for some god-awful reason wants to specialize in trad climbing from the get-go, his first pair of shoes should ideally be slippers, or some other sensitive shoe. The ability to feel the holds with the feet is very helpful for developing good footwork. Starting of with stiff "beginner" shoes is a big mistake, as it hinders the development of footwork and ingrains an upper-body orientation to climbing.
Jay
These are very good points but I still have to say that the spires are the best shoe to start with. They offer comfort, and durability while also providing good ability to smear. Though they are not great for small edges, odds are a beginner will not be on very many climbs that require as precise a foot placement. Also, since the footwork of a beginner is likely to not be very good, a shoe with a sharp edge and toe will tend to wear through faster due to the skipping and sliding of poor footwork down the same point on the toe.
Dec 11, 2006, 4:09 PM
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Re: [bizarrodrinker] What do you think is the best "first shoe?"
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bizarrodrinker wrote:
jt512 wrote:
Unless the climber for some god-awful reason wants to specialize in trad climbing from the get-go, his first pair of shoes should ideally be slippers, or some other sensitive shoe. The ability to feel the holds with the feet is very helpful for developing good footwork. Starting of with stiff "beginner" shoes is a big mistake, as it hinders the development of footwork and ingrains an upper-body orientation to climbing.
Jay
These are very good points but I still have to say that the spires are the best shoe to start with. They offer comfort, and durability while also providing good ability to smear. Though they are not great for small edges, odds are a beginner will not be on very many climbs that require as precise a foot placement.
All footholds require precise placement, even large footholds.
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Also, since the footwork of a beginner is likely to not be very good, a shoe with a sharp edge and toe will tend to wear through faster due to the skipping and sliding of poor footwork down the same point on the toe.
The problem is that the beginner's footwork isn't likely to get good until he gets rid of his clodhoppers and puts on a sensitive, precise shoe. So, he may have to resole after 3 months. That is a small price to pay for what he can learn about using his feet when he can actually feel the nuances of the holds through the shoes.
Unless the climber for some god-awful reason wants to specialize in trad climbing from the get-go, his first pair of shoes should ideally be slippers, or some other sensitive shoe. The ability to feel the holds with the feet is very helpful for developing good footwork. Starting of with stiff "beginner" shoes is a big mistake, as it hinders the development of footwork and ingrains an upper-body orientation to climbing.
Jay
These are very good points but I still have to say that the spires are the best shoe to start with. They offer comfort, and durability while also providing good ability to smear. Though they are not great for small edges, odds are a beginner will not be on very many climbs that require as precise a foot placement.
All footholds require precise placement, even large footholds.
In reply to:
Also, since the footwork of a beginner is likely to not be very good, a shoe with a sharp edge and toe will tend to wear through faster due to the skipping and sliding of poor footwork down the same point on the toe.
The problem is that the beginner's footwork isn't likely to get good until he gets rid of his clodhoppers and puts on a sensitive, precise shoe. So, he may have to resole after 3 months. That is a small price to pay for what he can learn about using his feet when he can actually feel the nuances of the holds through the shoes.
Jay
This is true. I suppose I should keep in mind that the place I learned to climb had very few feet at all that are/were not smears which is why the spires worked so well. The toe rounds out nicely and enables more surface area to make contact with the rock. LIke I said though, they don't edge very well at all, so they would in fact force the climber to rely on upper body more.
Dec 12, 2006, 7:05 PM
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Re: [climbsomething] What do you think is the best "first shoe?"
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climbsomething wrote:
Like, discuss
If the shoe fits, wear it.
Don't buy a shoe because someone else said it is good unless it fits your foot. Regardless of what anyone says about slippers, I will never wear them. Why? I can't. At the correct length, I can usually get my hand in there right along side my AA tooties quite easily. If it's not a symetric, lace-to-the-tip-of-the toe shoe, I can't wear it. I am insanely jealous of people with average feet who have choices in their footwear.
Of course, the Mad Rock Phoenix are fine shoes too, unless you're planning on climbing harder than about V10 or 5.13. Even then, I doubt the shoes would be the limiting factor. Curt
Man, I remember when I was a beginner climber trying to climb v10s and 5.13s in my MD Phoenix shoes. They really held me back.
I bought the Anasazi Mesa's purely because I found them new, in my size, for 20$. While I hear they're too stiff for beginners, should I go to the problem of saving them and buying a shittier shoe to blow out, seeing as I'm a noob and I'm going to probably trash the shoe anyways, at least from what I've heard?
(Later I realized I should have bought a few of them at that price, but I hadn't climbed on them before, and didn't know how well they'd hold up.)
Of course, the Mad Rock Phoenix are fine shoes too, unless you're planning on climbing harder than about V10 or 5.13. Even then, I doubt the shoes would be the limiting factor. Curt
Man, I remember when I was a beginner climber trying to climb v10s and 5.13s in my MD Phoenix shoes. They really held me back.
Anyone who believes the shoe makes the climber is sorely mistaken. I have seen V11 sent in spires, V12 done in mad rocks V10 gone in both, V10 and 11 go in <5 tries in both. Mind you the climber was rediculously strong, but the point is get whatever shoes you like that feel comfortable and work for YOU cause you are the one climbing in them.
Dec 13, 2006, 3:53 PM
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Re: [bizarrodrinker] What do you think is the best "first shoe?"
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I"m deffinately re-thinking how I would offer advice to nOObies looking for shoes now. Jay, you're argument makes total sense, and i've seen it in my own climbing in the past few years. I"ve recently gone back to climbing in spires and have not noticed a loss of precision, but I can see how a beginner would have issues learning to trust their feet in these things.
On the other hand, when I was just starting out, I wanted a shoe that was comfortable and would have probably been dissuaded by the tight fit required to get performance out of moccasims.
I"m on the fence. Hell, my first climbing shoes WERE black and white chuck tailors.
Dec 13, 2006, 4:19 PM
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Re: [bizarrodrinker] What do you think is the best "first shoe?"
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I guess what I"m saying is that its a total personality call. If the new climber is out for fun, not performance, wants to be comfortable on top-rope and not bouldering/sport climbing, and doesnt get the whole "not wearing socks" thing right off the bat, then they'll feel better in shoes designed for new climbers (spires/cliffs).
But if they're serious about getting into climbing and want to work on improving their performance right off the bat, then yes, moccasims or other sensitive shoes would be the better deal.
Damn, I could be a polotician!
"Maybe I do or donot agree with my coleagues on this issue, but at this point there is not enough information to make a public statement about my alignment on other then to say that I have heard both arguments and will deliberate until such time as you all forget about this particular 'cause' and move on to the next irrelavant clusterfuck. Thank you for your indulgence, and I did not inhale while having sex with that woman."
Dec 13, 2006, 4:30 PM
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Re: [grampacharlie] What do you think is the best "first shoe?"
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grampacharlie wrote:
I guess what I"m saying is that its a total personality call. If the new climber is out for fun, not performance, wants to be comfortable on top-rope and not bouldering/sport climbing, and doesnt get the whole "not wearing socks" thing right off the bat, then they'll feel better in shoes designed for new climbers (spires/cliffs).
But if they're serious about getting into climbing and want to work on improving their performance right off the bat, then yes, moccasims or other sensitive shoes would be the better deal.
Damn, I could be a polotician!
"Maybe I do or donot agree with my coleagues on this issue, but at this point there is not enough information to make a public statement about my alignment on other then to say that I have heard both arguments and will deliberate until such time as you all forget about this particular 'cause' and move on to the next irrelavant clusterfuck. Thank you for your indulgence, and I did not inhale while having sex with that woman."
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