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danpayne


Dec 21, 2006, 12:11 PM
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Gun Control
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Ok, this is one for all you lefties out there... America was founded on the principle that the people should control the government. Hence the second amendment, the right to keep and bear arms. While you can split hairs all day about this gun or that gun, the second amendment was deisigned to protect the citizens rights to protect themselves from a tyranical government. Now, I do agree that guns are not benificial in our society, but at the same time I believe that gun control simply takes them out of the hands of responsible citizens. And please fellas, I'm looking for an honest debate on this one (cause I really haven't made up my mind) so please keep the flaming to youtube.com...


slablizard


Dec 21, 2006, 12:16 PM
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Re: [danpayne] Gun Control [In reply to]
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danpayne wrote:
Ok, this is one for all you lefties out there... America was founded on the principle that the people should control the government. Hence the second amendment, the right to keep and bear arms. While you can split hairs all day about this gun or that gun, the second amendment was deisigned to protect the citizens rights to protect themselves from a tyranical government. Now, I do agree that guns are not benificial in our society, but at the same time I believe that gun control simply takes them out of the hands of responsible citizens. And please fellas, I'm looking for an honest debate on this one (cause I really haven't made up my mind) so please keep the flaming to youtube.com...

It's just a business like cars.
you don't control the government owning a gun. You just own a gun


overlord


Dec 21, 2006, 12:44 PM
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Re: [slablizard] Gun Control [In reply to]
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T0- this has been discused many times before and with far better arguments.


Partner philbox
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Dec 21, 2006, 1:29 PM
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Re: [overlord] Gun Control [In reply to]
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overlord wrote:
T0- this has been discused many times before and with far better arguments.

Yep, I agree, definitely a T0-. I'll also add that I believe the OP does have his mind firmly made up and it was a rather lame leading question couched so that he can come in with his political rhetoric later and show us all the wisdom of his ways, we will all then bow before him in supplication and of course stack all our weapons up for a huge bonfire. We are not worthy.


danpayne


Dec 21, 2006, 4:39 PM
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Re: [philbox] Gun Control [In reply to]
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philbox wrote:
overlord wrote:
T0- this has been discused many times before and with far better arguments.

I'll also add that I believe the OP does have his mind firmly made up
Gee... What on earth would lead you to believe that? perhaps me SAYING IT IN THE OP... Glad you read the whole thing... You guys are terrible debaters, im honestly not looking to be right, This is the soap box forum, id like to debate SOMETHING...


reno


Dec 21, 2006, 5:53 PM
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Re: [danpayne] Gun Control [In reply to]
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danpayne wrote:
im honestly not looking to be right,

A good thing, too.


Partner philbox
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Dec 21, 2006, 9:49 PM
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Re: [danpayne] Gun Control [In reply to]
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danpayne wrote:
im honestly not looking to be right,

You muat be looking to be left then. Sly


n57flyguy


Dec 22, 2006, 10:01 AM
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Re: [philbox] Gun Control [In reply to]
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Guns don't kill people, people kill people. The gun doesn't pull its trigger, a person does. I have two guns in my closet and there is NO WAY I am about to give them up.


dynosore


Dec 22, 2006, 10:20 AM
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Re: [danpayne] Gun Control [In reply to]
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Ask England and Australia how gun control has worked out...crime UP since the bans.

By definition, criminals don't obey the law. Taking away MY guns won't change that! OTOH, their needs to be much more severe punishment for those that sell and carry handguns illegally.

The right to protect oneself is the most basic of human freedoms. My cold dead hands blah blah blah.....

I speak from experience; I was a victim of an assault that hospitalized me with broken bones when I was younger, and a gun would have deterred the attacked, without firing a shot, guaranteed.

Merry CHRISTmas!


remi


Dec 22, 2006, 11:04 AM
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Re: [dynosore] Gun Control [In reply to]
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So if the 2nd amendment gives you the right to bear arms to defend against tyrannical gov't then the interpretation must have changed quite a bit since then. Now you've got the right to bear arms just for the hell of it. I hate those damned activist judges!


cmacblue42


Dec 22, 2006, 12:15 PM
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Registered: Dec 21, 2004
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Re: [remi] Gun Control [In reply to]
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i think with gun control, pro gun have a good arguement as in, criminals dont obey the law, we need them to protect us. Now, straight forward gun control is not a good way to go, but aiming at the sources, of which i can name 2: the gun companies, and ourselves. The gun companies are the sourse of gun production, thus, if they stopped creating guns, or only created hunting arms, instead of more lethal arms it would be better. The hunting arms compromise is i think one of the best options for compromise as far as gun control.

Point 2 about ourselves is not really a gun control thing, but more about violence control. We have all heard the saying, ignorance is bliss, meaning that the less we know, the less harm we can do and the happier we are. Like everything has a good and bad side, and as humans, we tend to bring the bad side out a little more (uranium for energy vs. bombs). What we can do, is to undo this culture of violence by not even mentioning it to the next generations. Like teach them violence is not the answer, etc. thus eventually making them ignorant to violence so that they cannot subdue violence on others. This approach will at least amke it socially and culturally unacceptable to be violent. It will probably not stop violence, since you cannot change every single person, but it will discourage it. This cannot be a govenment law, but it has to be a cultural reform, one that i think will happen sooner or later.

Eastern philosophy, namely confucianism, daoism and legalism are 3 systems that also work toward non violence. Confucianism is basically reform through reward and positive reinforcement, rather than punishment. The ideal leader would be a role model for how the "underlings" (for lack of a better term) should act. Daoism is based on harmony, like you just have to accept the good and the bad. The ideal leader would follow an "Action through inaction" philosophy. he would fight less wars and make less laws. I forgot which Chinese dynasty applied confucianism and daoist philosophies, but in the end, they did fight less wars. The one that is the opposite of confucianism is Legalism, which calls for punishment more severe than the crime (you get caught for speeding, 6 months in jail, run a red light, you get your foot chopped off, you kill someone, we kill your family and torture you) and eventually, no one would want to break the law anymore. the ideal ruler would be strict, clear, and trust no one, even family, so that no one gets by the law. This systme eventually proved to strict for Chinese society.

Anyway, i guess i got a little side tracked form gun control, but thats cuz i belive gun control isnt what is needed, but violence control. Except for .50 caliber rifles. Those things are freaking insane.


canadian_gym_rat


Dec 23, 2006, 1:14 PM
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Re: [cmacblue42] Gun Control [In reply to]
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I agree with the violence control thing, but guns still are a problem. I'm Canadian so I don't know anything about the amendments and such but all I do know is that laws allowing someone to carry a concealable weapon is a problem. for example, if someone is checking out your girl or boyfriend and you make an issue of it, how would you feel if they pulled out a gun? Suddenly you have a problem. At least putting a ban on hand guns would help. I'm not making a generalization that all people with guns are gangsters or murderers, some people are safe with them, however the sad part is that lots of people aren't. Stricter gun policies like background checks would cut down on the amount of violence. There will always be illegal weapons (.50 caliber rifles ect.) but the less LEGAL weapons there are on the street, well less guns, less violence. People can do stupid things when they have a dangerous weapon. (I'm not a gun lover so I thought id throw my oppininon in)


fishbelly


Dec 23, 2006, 2:04 PM
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Registered: Oct 31, 2004
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Re: [danpayne] Gun Control [In reply to]
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How are Guns bad for society?

Where in the Second amendment are tyrannical governments mentioned?

Marc


reno


Dec 23, 2006, 5:02 PM
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Re: [canadian_gym_rat] Gun Control [In reply to]
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canadian_gym_rat wrote:
for example, if someone is checking out your girl or boyfriend and you make an issue of it, how would you feel if they pulled out a gun?

How would you feel if a guy came up to your wife/girlfriend, pulled a knife, and said "Give me your purse" and she pulled her Glock .40 and said "Come get it yourself, bitch-boy." ?

Muggers don't mug cops for a reason... they know the cops are armed and trained. Muggers go after little old ladies who they think probably are NOT armed.


canadian_gym_rat


Dec 23, 2006, 6:09 PM
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Re: [reno] Gun Control [In reply to]
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Thats very true, but the thing is that there are other ways to defend oneself, other than firearms. Its still possible to kick ass without a gun. and that way the mugger can go to jail.


cmacblue42


Dec 23, 2006, 7:15 PM
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Registered: Dec 21, 2004
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Re: [canadian_gym_rat] Gun Control [In reply to]
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Dont old ladies carry pepper spray for that reason?


canadian_gym_rat


Dec 23, 2006, 7:22 PM
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Re: [cmacblue42] Gun Control [In reply to]
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Excellent point, I'm pretty sure that the mugger and the old lady would prefer a can of mace. How many old ladies do you know walk around with a glock in their purse?


Partner philbox
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Dec 24, 2006, 1:10 AM
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Re: [canadian_gym_rat] Gun Control [In reply to]
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My old lady walks around with a clock in her purse. She's got dementia though.


cmacblue42


Dec 24, 2006, 9:45 AM
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Re: [philbox] Gun Control [In reply to]
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If it were me, i would carry mace and a big lighter or somthing for when it got a little too outta hand and turn it into a flame thrower!!!!


reno


Dec 24, 2006, 10:06 AM
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Re: [philbox] Gun Control [In reply to]
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philbox wrote:
My old lady walks around with a clock in her purse. She's got dementia though.

Mine does too... she has a barrette.


canadian_gym_rat


Dec 24, 2006, 10:34 AM
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Registered: Dec 22, 2006
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Re: [cmacblue42] Gun Control [In reply to]
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cmacblue42 wrote:
If it were me, i would carry mace and a big lighter or somthing for when it got a little too outta hand and turn it into a flame thrower!!!!


Uhh Mace isn't flammable its like hot peppers in an aerosol can, not napalm


cmacblue42


Dec 24, 2006, 11:00 AM
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Registered: Dec 21, 2004
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Re: [canadian_gym_rat] Gun Control [In reply to]
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U noe what i mean, it was meant to be a joke, not a serious suggestion.
But thanks for telling me mace isnt flammable. I guess you do learn something new everyday.


JetTeach


Dec 24, 2006, 11:05 AM
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Re: [fishbelly] Gun Control [In reply to]
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fishbelly wrote:

Where in the Second amendment are tyrannical governments mentioned?

Marc
Exactly. I believe it states: A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.


canadian_gym_rat


Dec 24, 2006, 11:51 AM
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Id love to see an old granny barbecue a mugger in the street though


cmacblue42


Dec 24, 2006, 1:21 PM
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Registered: Dec 21, 2004
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Re: [canadian_gym_rat] Gun Control [In reply to]
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canadian_gym_rat wrote:
Id love to see an old granny barbecue a mugger in the street though
haha, agreed.

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