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bigfatrock
Dec 27, 2006, 10:09 PM
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I am curious to as if anybody has advice as to how I can get myself further out from the rock so my angle is not so shallow when shooting down on climbers from above? The crag I am doing all my shooting right now has no overhangs to get on for better angles and no cliffs close by to shoot across from. I have heard of people using stilts but what exactly are they using? Painters stilts perhaps? It is something that doesn't seem to safe to me.
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norm1057
Dec 27, 2006, 11:00 PM
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What caliber are you using? Rifle or Pistol?
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moose_droppings
Dec 27, 2006, 11:06 PM
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A shotgun or rifle?
Shotgun covers more angles.
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norm1057
Dec 27, 2006, 11:31 PM
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True, but the velocity would greatly diminish at any relevant hight or the angle would not be an issue. Thus, said lower climbers would retaliate with rocks.
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philbox
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Dec 28, 2006, 10:13 AM
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It depends on how high the cliff is. If you are over two pitches high then you are pretty much screwed except for being able to use an A frame. If you are less than two pitches then you can use a trolly system. You establish a big anchor for a very long rope that you then stretch out to another large anchor way out from the base of the cliff. Set up a haul system and tighten this rope. This is your trolley rope. You then rap on a seperate rope and attach another short rope with a pulley attached to the trolley rope. This pulley rope is used to pull yourself out from the cliff. A Gri Gri is good to use with this pulley rope.
The two pics linked to below are both pics that I would never have gotten if I had not used the method described above. I am dangling about 12 feet out from the cliff for both of those shots.
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...35_metres_55879.html
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...yer_5.12c_52490.html
To get even better angles attach yourself to a second rap line so that you have an X and a Y axis i/e you can not only pull yourself out from the cliff but you can pull yourself across the cliff. You also have naturally the up and down dimension as well.
Remember to get the talent to do the crux a few times so that they build up the requisite amount of sweat and the correct facial expressions. 
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sungam
Dec 28, 2006, 10:20 AM
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Hmmm. In my honest opinion, for single pitch, I would advise either a .762mm if it is a curved cliff, to get an angle on the people on the other side, or an A-frame with a 5.56 carbine.
Anything over 2 pitches and I reach for the TNT.
-Magnus
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bigfatrock
Dec 28, 2006, 2:01 PM
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What do you mean by an a-frame?
When you mentioned the trolley system are you rigging your lines on an adjacent cliff? That may work at some crags and I will likely be shooting at more soon. The one I am currently at is on a riverbank so there are no cliffs close enough to rig such a system. Do you happen to have any pics of your setup you can share?
p.s. thanks for not making the cliche jokes like everybody else has been doing.
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piton
Dec 28, 2006, 5:04 PM
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philbox wrote: It depends on how high the cliff is. If you are over two pitches high then you are pretty much screwed except for being able to use an A frame. If you are less than two pitches then you can use a trolly system. You establish a big anchor for a very long rope that you then stretch out to another large anchor way out from the base of the cliff. Set up a haul system and tighten this rope. This is your trolley rope. You then rap on a seperate rope and attach another short rope with a pulley attached to the trolley rope. This pulley rope is used to pull yourself out from the cliff. A Gri Gri is good to use with this pulley rope. The two pics linked to below are both pics that I would never have gotten if I had not used the method described above. I am dangling about 12 feet out from the cliff for both of those shots. http://www.rockclimbing.com/...35_metres_55879.html http://www.rockclimbing.com/...yer_5.12c_52490.html To get even better angles attach yourself to a second rap line so that you have an X and a Y axis i/e you can not only pull yourself out from the cliff but you can pull yourself across the cliff. You also have naturally the up and down dimension as well. Remember to get the talent to do the crux a few times so that they build up the requisite amount of sweat and the correct facial expressions.
as phil describes use a shunt as part of your rappell system. that way you are able to stop where you want and jug up too.
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dbrayack
Dec 28, 2006, 6:32 PM
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I usually just push out....or swing out to a tree, the latter likely the solution to your inquiry. If there are no trees available, you may want to bring a monopod (homemade?) with 4 legs or something (Think Grandma's walker style)
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dbrayack
Dec 28, 2006, 6:34 PM
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Another thing that I've done is tie one end of my rope to a tree back a ways, and then ascend the other end (through an anchor).
I can swing out and clip the line that's going up.
Luckly we have a lot of trees in WV
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guangzhou
Jan 4, 2007, 7:27 AM
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One way to chage the angle is to climb routes off to the left or right. Sometimes that works wells.
Another thing that may work id climbing a tree.
If you have a tree, you can also rig a rope bewtween the top of the cliff and the top of a tree. You could then hang between the two.
Another option, wich I think was mentioed is an Aframe. Check out Simon carter's website for a photo.
Good luck
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melekzek
Jan 4, 2007, 8:18 AM
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thespider wrote: An A-frame made out of steel or aluminum tubing with bolts, washers, and nuts at each point of intersection.
My first A-frame, I build from very light aluminum tubes, light and portable, which collapsed under my weight. The next one, I build using thicker aluminum tubes, which worked fine but the setup and hauling was more work than I would have liked. Also, it is hard to move to another spot, unless you have a killer shot from a fixed point, a-frame is too much work to be useful, imho...
(This post was edited by melekzek on Jan 4, 2007, 8:18 AM)
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philbox
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Jan 4, 2007, 10:59 PM
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guangzhou wrote: Another option, wich I think was mentioed is an Aframe. Check out Simon carter's website for a photo. Good luck
The interesting thing about Simon Carters A frame is that he rarely if ever uses it any more. He simply uses the naturally occuring features around him to gain the advantage of position. He works with what God has given him. He often merely pushes himself off the cliff with his legs.
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Paul_Y
Jan 28, 2007, 5:21 PM
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Philbox,
In your system do you attach the trolley line to the back of your harness so you face forward or do you attach it to the front and have to turn around to the front to take the picture?
Thanks in advance.
Paul
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philbox
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Jan 29, 2007, 12:33 AM
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Paul_Y wrote: Philbox, In your system do you attach the trolley line to the back of your harness so you face forward or do you attach it to the front and have to turn around to the front to take the picture? Thanks in advance. Paul
Hi Paul.
I generally will attach the trolley line to either the front of my harness or the side of my harness. I never attach it to the back. I rarely attach it to the side of my harness as it tears me apart. Better that everything is attached at the front. Attaching to the back leaves me vulnerable to be suspended out there from now to eternity like some oversized Christmas decoration. 
Attaching to the front ensures that I can make any necessary adjustments in a timely fashion.
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kevinheiss
Feb 1, 2007, 8:36 PM
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You can always climb into a tree, or even go up on a different cliff if you have them around. If you don't have either of these around, then you are short of options.
You can also take pictures of them several feet of the ground without including the ground. This will give you the effect they are higher then they really are.
Kevin
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