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slablizard


Jan 29, 2007, 9:03 AM
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Jesus Camp
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Saw Jesus camp...scary.
Especially the part" if we evangelican christian vote...we change the outcome of the election"


puck1340


Jan 29, 2007, 10:17 AM
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Re: [slablizard] Jesus Camp [In reply to]
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get em while they're young. worked for hitler.


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Jan 29, 2007, 2:50 PM
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Re: [puck1340] Jesus Camp [In reply to]
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puck1340 wrote:
get em while they're young. worked for hitler.

It has also been working for the state based education system of the west. So what is your point.


slablizard


Jan 29, 2007, 3:17 PM
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Re: [philbox] Jesus Camp [In reply to]
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philbox wrote:
puck1340 wrote:
get em while they're young. worked for hitler.

It has also been working for the state based education system of the west. So what is your point.

"state" based? You mean that a one way religiously oriented (to put it nicely) "education"Unimpressed is better than the school system?
I disagree.


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Jan 29, 2007, 3:36 PM
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Re: [slablizard] Jesus Camp [In reply to]
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I believe that no education system should preclude a spiritual dimension.

I also believe that an education system that actively precludes such a spiritual dimension ensures that its participants miss out on a well rounded education.

The doctrine of the seperation of church and state has reached absurd proportions. Let's bring a bit of balance back into the system. Of course humanists and atheists cannot brook anything of the sort and they will fight that notion with religious zeal. They are cultists of the first degree and they have by and large captured the institutions of eductaion around the western world.

As I said time for a bit of balance. A spiritual dimension can happily coincide with a progressive education system.

But let's see all the crazies come out of the woodwork to decry any sort of notion that this may be possible.


jt512


Jan 29, 2007, 3:40 PM
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Re: [philbox] Jesus Camp [In reply to]
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philbox wrote:
I believe that no education system should preclude a spiritual dimension.

And let me guess, it should be a Christian spiritual dimension.

Jay


slablizard


Jan 29, 2007, 3:42 PM
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Re: [philbox] Jesus Camp [In reply to]
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philbox wrote:
I believe that no education system should preclude a spiritual dimension.

I also believe that an education system that actively precludes such a spiritual dimension ensures that its participants miss out on a well rounded education.

The doctrine of the seperation of church and state has reached absurd proportions. Let's bring a bit of balance back into the system. Of course humanists and atheists cannot brook anything of the sort and they will fight that notion with religious zeal. They are cultists of the first degree and they have by and large captured the institutions of eductaion around the western world.

As I said time for a bit of balance. A spiritual dimension can happily coincide with a progressive education system.

But let's see all the crazies come out of the woodwork to decry any sort of notion that this may be possible.

I believe that a spiritual dimension is something very intimate, that needs a solid cultural background, that at 12 years old you don't have. SO any notionism and mithology taught as a "fact" at that age or earlier can be called brainwashing, since a kid simply has not the maturity or knowledge to make her/his own choices.
But then religion was never about choices, was it?

Would you like someone to instill the terror for global warming in 5 years old kids telling them that if they don't do this and that they are all going to die? Then why is it ok to tell them that if they don't do this and that they will go to hell?
I absolutely agree with you, but spiritual dimension is NOT religious propaganda.


puck1340


Jan 29, 2007, 3:51 PM
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Re: [jt512] Jesus Camp [In reply to]
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jt512 wrote:
philbox wrote:
I believe that no education system should preclude a spiritual dimension.

And let me guess, it should be a Christian spiritual dimension.

Jay
i think that they should teach buhdism. the dahli lama is the shit.


kyote321


Jan 29, 2007, 7:39 PM
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Re: [slablizard] Jesus Camp [In reply to]
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the problem is that today's version of christianity teachs intolerance. at is really the core of though surrounding the religion. it isn't what jesus taught, but it is an excuse to beleive that you and the other believers have one up on everyone else.


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Jan 29, 2007, 7:47 PM
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Re: [kyote321] Jesus Camp [In reply to]
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kyote321 wrote:
the problem is that today's version of christianity teachs intolerance.

Vs the lefts tolerance?


Partner macherry


Jan 29, 2007, 8:09 PM
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philbox wrote:
I believe that no education system should preclude a spiritual dimension.

I also believe that an education system that actively precludes such a spiritual dimension ensures that its participants miss out on a well rounded education.

The doctrine of the seperation of church and state has reached absurd proportions. Let's bring a bit of balance back into the system. Of course humanists and atheists cannot brook anything of the sort and they will fight that notion with religious zeal. They are cultists of the first degree and they have by and large captured the institutions of eductaion around the western world.

As I said time for a bit of balance. A spiritual dimension can happily coincide with a progressive education system.

But let's see all the crazies come out of the woodwork to decry any sort of notion that this may be possible.

I would love religious and spiritual tolerance taught in schools. But, as for any kind of religious indoctrination or single religion, i say nay.

Religion is a personal choice and therefore better taught at home, much like the christian right believes sex education is better taught by parents then in the schoolWink


epic_ed


Jan 30, 2007, 12:05 AM
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Re: [kyote321] Jesus Camp [In reply to]
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kyote321 wrote:
the problem is that today's version of christianity teachs intolerance.

That is complete and unequivocal bullshit. I'm sick of idiotic comments like this that lump all Christians into an "extremist" category. The radicals on the far right of the Christian spectrum are assholes who give Christianity a bad name. They are a small, but vocal few in comparison to the rest of us who simply live to try to follow in the footsteps of Christ.

Christ taugh to love God with all of your heart, mind, soul, and actions -- and to love your neighbor. Love your neighbor who may be a plummer, or an electrician, or a lawyer. But also love your neighbor who may be a prostitute, a thief, or an adulterer. Jesus didn't approve of the sinners actions, but loved them anyways. Christ didn't teach intolerance. He taught compassion. He taugh acceptance. Ultimately, there will be only one judgement -- by God, himself. Not by me, not by any fire & brimstone preacher. Those who follow Christ -- who truely follow his teachings -- are not intolerant of how you or anyone else may choose to lead their life. We may pray for you and try to help guide you on a better path, but we will not judge you. I am the last person who has a right to condem anyone for their "sins". Those who I worship with share my beliefs, and this is the vast majority of mainstream Christianity. Not the radicals you see in the film "Jesus Camp."

There are so many more Christians doing good work for their communities and their neighbors than there are those who are trying to impose their will upon the masses, but you rarely hear about it. That kind of stuff is mundane and un-newsworthy, but if happens every day. Christianity strives to bring people together, not tear them apart. You'll find most of us living humble lives simply trying to become better people -- better neighbors.

Evangilists are the outcasts of Christianity. Some are misguided, others are manipulative, self-serving phonies. Please don't confuse these individuals with those of us who are trying to follow Christ.

Ed


kyote321


Jan 30, 2007, 5:24 AM
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Re: [epic_ed] Jesus Camp [In reply to]
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'That is complete and unequivocal bullshit. I'm sick of idiotic comments like this that lump all Christians into an "extremist" category. The radicals on the far right of the Christian spectrum are assholes who give Christianity a bad name. They are a small, but vocal few in comparison to the rest of us who simply live to try to follow in the footsteps of Christ. '

small, vocal few? they have heisted the white house!!! if they don't have follwers in the church, who is their voting-base?

'Christ taugh to love God with all of your heart, mind, soul, and actions -- and to love your neighbor. Love your neighbor who may be a plummer, or an electrician, or a lawyer. But also love your neighbor who may be a prostitute, a thief, or an adulterer. Jesus didn't approve of the sinners actions, but loved them anyways. Christ didn't teach intolerance. He taught compassion. He taugh acceptance. Ultimately, there will be only one judgement -- by God, himself. Not by me, not by any fire & brimstone preacher. Those who follow Christ -- who truely follow his teachings -- are not intolerant of how you or anyone else may choose to lead their life. We may pray for you and try to help guide you on a better path, but we will not judge you. I am the last person who has a right to condem anyone for their "sins". '

i agree with you 100%, and that was the point i was making.

'Those who I worship with share my beliefs, and this is the vast majority of mainstream Christianity. Not the radicals you see in the film "Jesus Camp." '

i grew up as one of those radicals, and have watched them come to power over this country in the from of tyranny. in my experience with the evangelical church, the first 20 years of my life, i do not see them as the minority, but the majority. i wish you were correct. most people in the church were money-hungy, republican voting, gay-hating, bigots in the name of christ. turn on the tv. who is preaching? the christian right or the right christians? right christians like tony campolo are shut out and demonized. i wish you were right, but i don't think you are.

'There are so many more Christians doing good work for their communities and their neighbors than there are those who are trying to impose their will upon the masses, but you rarely hear about it. That kind of stuff is mundane and un-newsworthy, but if happens every day. Christianity strives to bring people together, not tear them apart. You'll find most of us living humble lives simply trying to become better people -- better neighbors. '

great, get a voice. because many aren't hearing your message over pat robertson's nationalistic furor.

'Evangilists are the outcasts of Christianity. Some are misguided, others are manipulative, self-serving phonies. Please don't confuse these individuals with those of us who are trying to follow Christ. '

great! more power to you. hope your movement can take out the liars that have hiested your religion, the republican party and the coutry's military. i'm all about christ, it is the foolowers that worry me. remember, this isn't a foriegn film for me, i grew up this way. it is real and has influenced the fear that has driven this country to where it is now. peace.


(This post was edited by kyote321 on Jan 30, 2007, 7:28 AM)


coloredchalker


Jan 30, 2007, 6:02 AM
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Re: [philbox] Jesus Camp [In reply to]
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puck1340 wrote:
get em while they're young. worked for hitler.
You mean thse twenty and thrity year old younins 'cause that was Hitlers base, If you want to be very general.

philbox wrote:
It has also been working for the state based education system of the west. So what is your point.
You must be reffering to the "philosophy" being taught in schools- secular humanism

wikipedia.com wrote:
Some criticize the philosophy of secular humanism because it offers no eternal truths nor a relationship with the divine.[9][10] They comment that a philosophy bereft of these beliefs[11] leaves humanity adrift in a foggy sea[12] of postmodern cynicism and anomie.[13]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_humanism
Sounds like what is currently being taught in schools


puck1340


Jan 30, 2007, 6:15 AM
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Re: [epic_ed] Jesus Camp [In reply to]
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i have not seen "jesus camp" but was shuffled around many jesus camps as a kid. they brainwash you when your young. you don't know any better than to beleive what your parents/peers tell you. they send you to these camps where you combine fun with jesus, making it seem that christianity if fun.
the only reason that christians are helping out in the community/feeding homeless is to convert more people. send christians to africa to build a well and teach them how to read(the bible). tell them all how they will go to hell if they don't.


puck1340


Jan 30, 2007, 6:28 AM
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Re: [coloredchalker] Jesus Camp [In reply to]
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puck1340 wrote:
get em while they're young. worked for hitler.
You mean thse twenty and thrity year old younins 'cause that was Hitlers base, If you want to be very general.

The Hitler Youth was organized into corps under adult leaders, and the general membership comprised boys aged fourteen to eighteen. After 1938, the Hitler Youth was a compulsory organization, mandatory for all young German men. The group was also seen as a recruiting ground for several Nazi Party paramilitary groups, with the Schutzstaffel (the SS) taking the most interest in the Hitler Youth. Members of the HJ were particularly proud to be bestowed with the single Sig Rune (victory symbol) by the SS. The SS utilized two Sig Runes as their mark, and this gesture served to symbolically link the two groups


(This post was edited by puck1340 on Jan 30, 2007, 6:32 AM)


coloredchalker


Jan 30, 2007, 6:32 AM
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Re: [puck1340] Jesus Camp [In reply to]
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Puck I'm sorry you feel that way but you probably have good reason for it. Unfortunatly your statement that "the only reason christians are helping out..." is just not accurate. But maybe you'd preffer we didn't help out?


(This post was edited by coloredchalker on Jan 30, 2007, 6:35 AM)


kyote321


Jan 30, 2007, 7:33 AM
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no, helping is good, just not 'praying for your supper' as one has to do in many homeless shelters to get fed.

yes, there are great organizations that are helping people worldwide like like the mennonites who ask nothing in return and don't judge on religion sexual or political orientation.. the vast majority of christians overseas are trying to tally souls like ticklist under a thin veil of 'missionary work.'


Partner tradman


Jan 30, 2007, 9:09 AM
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If you're an atheist, you should really go see "The God Who Wasn't There".

Like Jesus Camp, it'll reinforce your prejudices, make you scared AND relieve you of the burden of actually meeting or (gasp!) talking to real christians and having to form a real opinion!

GOSH!

www.thegodmovie.com


slablizard


Jan 30, 2007, 9:15 AM
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tradman wrote:
If you're an atheist, you should really go see "The God Who Wasn't There".

Like Jesus Camp, it'll reinforce your prejudices, make you scared AND relieve you of the burden of actually meeting or (gasp!) talking to real christians and having to form a real opinion!

GOSH!

www.thegodmovie.com

Hey trad, would you send your kids to one of those JC?


Partner tradman


Jan 30, 2007, 9:33 AM
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In reply to:
Hey trad, would you send your kids to one of those JC?

I wouldn't send them, no.

If they wanted to go, I'd let them, just as I'd let them go find out about Islam, Buddhism or any other aspect of spirituality.

(we have got christian camps here, but I'm not sure they're ever quite as, um, enthusiastic as the ones in the movie. Wink)


slablizard


Jan 30, 2007, 9:46 AM
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tradman wrote:
In reply to:
Hey trad, would you send your kids to one of those JC?

I wouldn't send them, no.

If they wanted to go, I'd let them, just as I'd let them go find out about Islam, Buddhism or any other aspect of spirituality.

(we have got christian camps here, but I'm not sure they're ever quite as, um, enthusiastic as the ones in the movie. Wink)


Would you send them to an Islam Camp? I don't think so.
One thing is discovering religion and spirituality. One thing is being brainwashed.

Would you teach sex to 10 years old kids? Or you think is better for them to "learn" about it when they are more mature and haev the means to understand the context of it?


petsfed


Jan 30, 2007, 12:55 PM
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philbox wrote:
kyote321 wrote:
the problem is that today's version of christianity teachs intolerance.

Vs the lefts tolerance?

I'd rather have schools that don't even mention god (even as a non-possibility) than schools that insist on teaching hypotheses (not even theories) that are reliant on a particular god to work.

You can learn a lot about your religion of choice by growing up in a religious household and going to church on a regular basis. I know plenty of very well educated people (via secular education) that are still very religious because they MADE THAT CHOICE.

If a teacher says "there is no god" they deserve to be fired. If a teacher just avoids that topic entirely, they are doing their job. Secular =! atheist. It means without god, not without the possibility of god.


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Jan 30, 2007, 2:08 PM
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petsfed wrote:
philbox wrote:
kyote321 wrote:
the problem is that today's version of christianity teachs intolerance.

Vs the lefts tolerance?

I'd rather have schools that don't even mention god (even as a non-possibility) than schools that insist on teaching hypotheses (not even theories) that are reliant on a particular god to work.

You can learn a lot about your religion of choice by growing up in a religious household and going to church on a regular basis. I know plenty of very well educated people (via secular education) that are still very religious because they MADE THAT CHOICE.

If a teacher says "there is no god" they deserve to be fired. If a teacher just avoids that topic entirely, they are doing their job. Secular =! atheist. It means without god, not without the possibility of god.

That all sounds very reasonable but what I have difficulties with is that there is no such thing as a vacuum in this life and on this world. Radical Islam and other screwy religions such as scientology are rushing in to fill the vacuum that the left has created. The mere mention of Christianity leaves some going red in the face with apoplexy. The Judeo Christian heritage of the west has created one of the most enduring civilisations the world has ever known. It has created the finest arts and sciences the world has ever known. It is about time that the truth is taught in our schools and that western civilisation is not apologised for.

I find it interesting that the Hitler youth is trumpeted in an attempt to close down the debate. That whole nazi debacle had its roots in Darwinian theory. The Nazi party was in fact a creation of the left, the very word nazi gives a clue to this, National Socialism.

The very worst atrocities of the past 2,000 years can be clearly slated home to those who have a very clear atheistic agenda namely those on the left. Yet the case is still trying to be made for the exclusion of anything God related, interesting.


slowhand


Jan 30, 2007, 3:41 PM
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First I'm 26 and still searching for a religion that fits me. There is no way that I will send my kids to a school that puts one religion above another. If I pick a church before I have kids I will probably take them there until they have the capacity to choose there own religion. My family hates the fact that I fell away from being Luthern. I just can't believe the bible word for word. I sincerely believe that Pat Robertson is the devil..

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