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akokskis
Feb 5, 2007, 5:04 PM
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Hi folks.
A few months ago we were told that we can no longer slack here on our campus by the campus security. We've already met once with the health and safety board, and we're (finally!) meeting again with them on thursday to address any final questions, concerns (etc) that they may have. I wanted to know if anyone has any good suggestions as to what to say or talk to them about in regards to the safety of slacklining.
As far as the tree situation goes, we've already met with our campus' arborist and grounds people, and in fact, they are totally for allowing us to slack. Even to the point of being willing to buy webbing to protect the trees!
Our only issue now is convincing the health and safety board that there's nothing dangerous about slacking.
I know it's been covered before here, but I'm looking to see if anyone has any further input on this issue.
Thanks!!
[EDIT]
Oh yeah, I'm also wondering what sort of policies (if any) exist at other colleges. Any information regarding this would be greatly helpful and appreciated!
Thanks again!!
(This post was edited by akokskis on Feb 5, 2007, 5:15 PM)
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flyin_phil
Feb 5, 2007, 5:25 PM
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We had the same problems at our school as well. The way that things were finally able to be resolved is that anyone slacklining had to fill out a waiver first, saying they wouldnt sue the school, etc. give that a try, it worked for us.
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akokskis
Feb 5, 2007, 6:44 PM
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Yeah, that was one of our original ideas when we were first approached and asked to take down our line, however the officer (and he's one of the guys on the health and safety committee) told us that waivers are worthless.
I do suppose it's worth another try.
Thanks for the suggestion. Anyone else have any other ideas?
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greenketch
Feb 5, 2007, 7:15 PM
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I do not know about Penn. Many states have a rule in their administrative code that makes it law. This is usually some form of "if the property owner gaves approval but does not activley install or regulate the activity they cannot be held responsible" In Washington this is the case and it makes it easy once I am the one pointing out the rules to them.
Any Penn folks have legal connections to the admin code?
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themadmilkman
Feb 5, 2007, 7:45 PM
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akokskis wrote: Yeah, that was one of our original ideas when we were first approached and asked to take down our line, however the officer (and he's one of the guys on the health and safety committee) told us that waivers are worthless. I do suppose it's worth another try. Thanks for the suggestion. Anyone else have any other ideas?
Unless he's also the school's legal counsel, his opinions as to the validity of waivers aren't worth much.
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themadmilkman
Feb 5, 2007, 7:49 PM
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greenketch wrote: I do not know about Penn. Many states have a rule in their administrative code that makes it law. This is usually some form of "if the property owner gaves approval but does not activley install or regulate the activity they cannot be held responsible" In Washington this is the case and it makes it easy once I am the one pointing out the rules to them. Any Penn folks have legal connections to the admin code?
Do you happen to remember the actual code that came from in Washington? If you can find that, I stand a good chance at finding a pennsylvania equivalent, should one exist.
Law school FTW.
(This post was edited by themadmilkman on Feb 5, 2007, 7:50 PM)
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greenketch
Feb 5, 2007, 8:14 PM
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I Washington this is found in the RCW title 4, Section 4.24.210
It is a specific limitation on the liabilities of land owners in relation to recreational use.
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themadmilkman
Feb 6, 2007, 5:49 AM
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greenketch wrote: I Washington this is found in the RCW title 4, Section 4.24.210 It is a specific limitation on the liabilities of land owners in relation to recreational use.
Perfect. I'll take some time tomorrow and see what I can dig up.
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themadmilkman
Feb 6, 2007, 7:24 PM
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Here's an explanation of the Pennsylvania equivalent -- The Recreational Use of Land and Water Act.
http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/brc/RUWLA%20fact%20sheetFinalFpdf.pdf
Unfortunately, it appears that the courts have stuck to a very narrow definition of land (i even checked the cases to make sure), and the school grounds would likely not be covered under RULWA.
It's a good start, though. I'll see what I can find on the liabilities of schools for their grounds.
Is this a private or public school? It may make a difference.
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akokskis
Feb 6, 2007, 7:29 PM
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Hey, thanks for your work so far! It's really appreciated.
It's a private school - Dickinson College in Carlisle.
Also, I was looking around a bit, and found this: http://www.clubs.psu.edu/up/nittanygrotto/landown.html . Does this have any pertinence here? It seems to be along the same lines as that act from Washington, but I'm not much into legal speak, so I could be totally misreading it.
Thanks again!
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themadmilkman
Feb 8, 2007, 1:42 AM
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akokskis wrote: Hey, thanks for your work so far! It's really appreciated. It's a private school - Dickinson College in Carlisle. Also, I was looking around a bit, and found this: http://www.clubs.psu.edu/up/nittanygrotto/landown.html . Does this have any pertinence here? It seems to be along the same lines as that act from Washington, but I'm not much into legal speak, so I could be totally misreading it. Thanks again!
You're not misreading it. And that particular act makes no mention of undeveloped land, which as the issue with what I found.
All in all, that's a very good piece of law you found, and being able to show that should help your argument.
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endercore
Feb 8, 2007, 1:58 AM
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i hope your meeting went well!
here is the situation at my school. I attend (apparently a very similar) small private school. Asbury College in Wilmore, KY.
We had a line up for 4 or so years in the same place without anyone saying anything. It was only once the owner of the line graduated and moved his line away did the problems arise. The spot it used to be in grew over with honeysuckle bushes which made it quite hard to slack, so we decided to move trees. This got us in much trouble and effectively got slacking banned from campus. We of course were pissed and took to taking care of the issue. I imeadatily plead my case to student development and we began to get the issue worked around. Thankfully there were some staff and facility that were really on board with the idea of slacklining and they really fought for us.
anyway there were lots of hoops to jump through and lots of red tape but we eventually agreed on the following requirements:
1) A place where people wouldn't be "clotheslined" by the slack line...le some where they normally wouldn't walk
2) tree's of a certain diameter ( we offered to use padding but our grounds crew said the particular tree's we were planning on using did not require them)
3) a height "as low as possible" (this was a big issue and took lots of fighting for. Originally they told us 3 feet, but we said no way... it would touch in the middle. They understood our point and allowed us to make it as low as possible... they just didn't want people getting hurt falling off)
Basiclicly we had to put our line up in the spot it used to be and we had to prune back the bushes one day. All worked out and we can have our line up now!
we offered to sign waivers, or require spotters for "inexperienced slack-liners" but these were not needed.
Just be sure to be polite and jump through all the nessacary hoops, hope this all works out for you.
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greenketch
Feb 8, 2007, 5:23 PM
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In addition to the law prep. Endercore makes some very good points. Be nice. Let them determine some of the requirements (choose your battles carefully). Be prepared.
I no longer am connected with schools but I do a lot of stuff with young people and have to deal with many parents. (you thought school admin was challenging  ). Even without bringing out the law I usually have great results with just demonstating slackline is a legit sport that sane people practice. Sometimes it is just bringing out the "how to slackline" DVD an it is like the light bulb goes on and they say "you didn't dream this up on your own!"
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messiahslacker117
Feb 11, 2007, 1:31 AM
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You can always come over to Messiah College not too far from you and we slackline all the time here and never had a problem yet
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