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punjabi


Feb 26, 2007, 10:49 PM
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Another rigging system question
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     I was interested in using a new rigging system (as pictured here: http://www.flickr.com/...t-72157594299806018/ ) to set up long lines. I like this system because of the adjustability it allows still having the end of the line free.

My question is, what affect will the prusiks have on longer lines, (80-100') if any? Will it damage the line or cause any melting?

Personally, for a long line I was planning on using 8-9 mil. cordage to set up 3 equalized prusiks. My thinking is that with coradage that thick and spread across 3 prusiks, it would have little to no effect on the slackline itself.
Interested in any beta/criticism anyone might have on this.


misanthropic_nihilist


Feb 26, 2007, 11:04 PM
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My guess is that the prussiks will slip on a 100' line. With the short section of rope laid under the webbing, only ~1/2 of the prussik's surface area is on the webbing. The other half is on the rope.

Try it out though. Let us know if it works.

After tensioning it, I'd suggest soft-pointing the line, because I really don't think the prussiks would hold with your weight on a 100' line. With prussiks, soft-pointing is really easy if you attach the prussiks to the anchor with a load releasable hitch (munter mule or mariner).


punjabi


Feb 26, 2007, 11:12 PM
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  The more tension you put on the line the tighter the prusiks would get, but maybe your right.
Also, I was definately planning on taking the tension system out. I wouldn't let the prusiks hold the tension while walking. good point to note though. Thanks.


(This post was edited by punjabi on Feb 27, 2007, 12:14 AM)


majid_sabet


Feb 27, 2007, 12:15 AM
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Re: [punjabi] Another rigging system question [In reply to]
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You may want to check your system again and do not use prusiks on sling.

[URL=http://imageshack.us]

[URL=http://imageshack.us]

[URL=http://imageshack.us]


(This post was edited by majid_sabet on Feb 27, 2007, 12:16 AM)


misanthropic_nihilist


Feb 27, 2007, 1:00 AM
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majid,
What are you suggesting with your pictures?
What is the best way to attach a rope & pulley system to the line without excess knots in the line?


Partner tisar


Feb 27, 2007, 4:04 AM
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Re: [majid_sabet] Another rigging system question [In reply to]
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Prusiks on the line is no problem. This 95m line was set up by using a prussik:



We "padded" the line by includig a biner in the prusik, so the line will be wrapped around the biner properly. Works charm.

- Daniel


(This post was edited by tisar on Mar 7, 2007, 7:32 AM)
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majid_sabet


Feb 27, 2007, 10:54 AM
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misanthropic_nihilist wrote:
majid,
What are you suggesting with your pictures?
What is the best way to attach a rope & pulley system to the line without excess knots in the line?

This bunjabi guy Mickey moused a piece of short rope under webbing then added prussik to it. Prussik system is not meant to be used or work on flat webbing. That is one problem, also his anchor set up on top is not correct. You never use webbing over webbing plus the angle of his anchor is exceeding 120 degree at the attachment point with potential of not loading the axis point of binder on lower side. (Look at his biner on top anchor and count how many webbing are attached to it and where the load is, a mess). he could run the webbing 5 times over the tree and pull 3 .He should use a large steel biner with better anchor , plus attach the sling to a rope then add prussic to rope and not on the webbing but for slakers, it may work fine. I hope nothing comes loose while loading this system. The flying webbing could cut meat like a grinder


(This post was edited by majid_sabet on Feb 27, 2007, 10:56 AM)


irockclimb


Feb 27, 2007, 12:48 PM
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Buy two slackdogs and do DamianC's method. http://i36.photobucket.com/.../Figure1modified.jpg

That way you can drop out the tightening system and be left with a clean line. And if you dress the prussiks well or equalize a couple of them you should be ok.

orion


(This post was edited by irockclimb on Feb 27, 2007, 12:49 PM)


misanthropic_nihilist


Feb 27, 2007, 1:48 PM
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majid,
Sorry for the confusion. I thought the second & third pictures were yours and you were trying to demonstrate the right way to do it. I didn't realize all 3 pictures were his. I definitely picked up on the wide angles & nylon-on-nylon.

Everything makes sense now.


slacker_jon


Feb 27, 2007, 5:07 PM
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Interesting to see what you make of my pictures!

As for the Mickey mouse comment about using rope under prussicks on a slackline, you're WRONG, this is the correct way to prepare a line so that it can be cleaned. I've rigged lines to over 200' using prussicks, but have since started to use 3 equalised prussicks made with 8mm cord (6 turns per prussick).

I am well aware that the slings are not equalised, but they were more than adequate for this line which is only about 10m long. You will see a similar thing here on pg2: http://www.slackline.com/howto/Howto.pdf

If I'm in a situation where it is important to equalise anchors well then I DO, but if I'm out in the park rigging a short line it doesn't really matter that much. Please don't condescend me when some of you are clearly very ignorant about the cutting edge of slackline rigging. Prussicks are standard for highline rigging!!!



Peace,

Jon


(This post was edited by slacker_jon on Feb 27, 2007, 5:31 PM)


punjabi


Feb 27, 2007, 7:44 PM
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majid_sabet wrote:
misanthropic_nihilist wrote:
majid,
What are you suggesting with your pictures?
What is the best way to attach a rope & pulley system to the line without excess knots in the line?

This bunjabi guy Mickey moused a piece of short rope under webbing then added prussik to it. Prussik system is not meant to be used or work on flat webbing. That is one problem, also his anchor set up on top is not correct. You never use webbing over webbing plus the angle of his anchor is exceeding 120 degree at the attachment point with potential of not loading the axis point of binder on lower side. (Look at his biner on top anchor and count how many webbing are attached to it and where the load is, a mess). he could run the webbing 5 times over the tree and pull 3 .He should use a large steel biner with better anchor , plus attach the sling to a rope then add prussic to rope and not on the webbing but for slakers, it may work fine. I hope nothing comes loose while loading this system. The flying webbing could cut meat like a grinder

hey Dickface,
Before you get all preachy you may want to have all the facts. NONE of those pics are mine! I was merely using only the specific one that I submitted in my original post as an example of what i was interested in trying. It had nothing to do with any of the other pics in that set. They were all photos I found online researching different rigging techniques. Also, this technique has been posted many other places online. However, i didn't know how effective it would be on 80-100' lines. All I want is some feedback on what effect the prusiks might have on setting up long lines.

All other feedback is greatly appreciated though!

-Punjabi (not Bunjabi, you Douchebag)


punjabi


Feb 27, 2007, 7:51 PM
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To slackerjon and irockclimb,


Thanks, thats exactly the type of feedback i was looking for, I appreciate the posts.
Also, over time does it start to cause any wear spots where the prusiks are placed? Basically, what are the long term effects of the prusiks on the line?

-Punjabi


(This post was edited by punjabi on Feb 27, 2007, 7:56 PM)


slacker_jon


Feb 28, 2007, 12:29 AM
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In reply to:
Also, over time does it start to cause any wear spots where the prusiks are placed? Basically, what are the long term effects of the prusiks on the line?

I have had melting twice and I have used the prussick method extensively. Both times it happened it was single prussick and I'm certain that it was because I didn't dress them well enough. Good learning experience mind, and it taught me that if you dress them really tightly you will be fine. It is worth noting that the Kliemheist is actually the knot of choice from the prussick family, and also that it will work if you have 11/16th webbing through 1"Wink


misanthropic_nihilist


Feb 28, 2007, 7:12 AM
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Why do you say the Kleimheist is the best friction hitch? I thought the prussik had the strongest grip.


rjtrials


Feb 28, 2007, 7:39 AM
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punjabi wrote:
I was interested in using a new rigging system

PM arwarreng.

he rigs professionally.

RJ


slacker_jon


Feb 28, 2007, 9:20 AM
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In reply to:
Why do you say the Kleimheist is the best friction hitch? I thought the prussik had the strongest grip.

In my experience it will dress nicer when under load and 6 turns seems to be the most number you can have before the knot develops a tendancy to invert. It works either way!


damianc


Mar 1, 2007, 2:11 PM
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I tightened a 310 foot line with a single, well-dressed kleimheist, using the tightening method shown here: http://forum.slackline.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=261

This should dispell any doubts about it working on a 100 foot line Smile


Partner coldclimb


Mar 2, 2007, 6:04 PM
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majid_sabet wrote:
misanthropic_nihilist wrote:
majid,
What are you suggesting with your pictures?
What is the best way to attach a rope & pulley system to the line without excess knots in the line?

This bunjabi guy Mickey moused a piece of short rope under webbing then added prussik to it. Prussik system is not meant to be used or work on flat webbing. That is one problem, also his anchor set up on top is not correct. You never use webbing over webbing plus the angle of his anchor is exceeding 120 degree at the attachment point with potential of not loading the axis point of binder on lower side. (Look at his biner on top anchor and count how many webbing are attached to it and where the load is, a mess). he could run the webbing 5 times over the tree and pull 3 .He should use a large steel biner with better anchor , plus attach the sling to a rope then add prussic to rope and not on the webbing but for slakers, it may work fine. I hope nothing comes loose while loading this system. The flying webbing could cut meat like a grinder

Majid, with all due respect, you're wrong. Please try it for yourself, using a variety of different methods of attaching the prussik to the line, and you will understand.

My response to the original question: The prussik tensioning system CAN slip, and I have seen it do so and melt webbing. That said, if you wrap it around the webbing and a short piece of rope as pictured, dress it nicely, and use strong enough cord, you will have a nicely tensioned line and be able to remove the system immediately, placing the line directly onto a slackdog as in Damian's system, or in the case of highlining, tie your knot exactly where you want it to be, eliminating all the hassles of the "guess-and-check" method of tying highline knots.

Additionally, I have seen climbing tape wrapped around the sheath of the rope and the webbing in the system previously described, with no slippage. You may also decide to use two equalized prussiks.

I've seen 6-mil prussik cord snap rigging an 88 foot highline, and 8-mil work fine on the same line. I've melted a nylon sling into a line of my own while using the prussik WITHOUT the rope in it. I have also successfully rigged multiple lines with both cord and webbing prussiks with no rope involved. It is a perfectly viable option that is still being worked on and perfected by slackers worldwide, and I encourage you to try it out, see what works, what doesn't, and figure out how YOU want to do it. Wink

Good luck!


(This post was edited by coldclimb on Mar 2, 2007, 6:05 PM)


slacker_jon


Mar 5, 2007, 10:47 AM
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Damian broke the World record lowline yesterday. 405'5". I measured it with him and helped with the rigging.

I dressed 3 prussicks of 8mm, equalised with a length of rope in the middle and it was tensioned to 1650kg's with no melting or damage. There was 5 turns in the shortest and 6 in the other 2. 17 turns in total. It's ALL on video, including the reading from the crane scale.

Laters.


(This post was edited by slacker_jon on Mar 5, 2007, 10:53 AM)


misanthropic_nihilist


Mar 5, 2007, 10:57 AM
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405 Feet! That's incredible.

1650kg is even more incredible. What kind of pulley system and mechanical advantage did you use to get that tension?

At ~3600 pounds, you're approaching the breaking strength of webbing. Aren't you afraid of snapping the webbing when someone walks on it?


slacker_jon


Mar 5, 2007, 12:25 PM
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In reply to:
405 Feet! That's incredible.
Indeed, he ripped it up... I only made it 100' or so until the line would throw a temper and spit me off.

We used 3000 kg webing, and it was really humming, we got 1100kg with no more than a pair of SBI blocks and 15 people. We could have got all the tension with 20 people, 4:1. As it was we used a chain hoist to get the final tension.

The tension of the webbing after it had been fastened off to the anchors dropped to 1350kg and only rose by 25-30kg with a slackliner on it. The system has to be nearly in equilibrium before you walk it!!

A full report will follow soon.... Damian is flying back to US right now with the footage.

Jon


Partner coldclimb


Mar 5, 2007, 4:10 PM
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Man, awesome on all accounts! Congrats on the walk Damian, that's definitely a long line, to put it lightly. Crazy Glad everyone had fun, and I'm looking forward to seeing more pictures!


Partner slacklinejoe


Mar 5, 2007, 6:14 PM
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slacker_jon wrote:
Damian broke the World record lowline yesterday. 405'5". I measured it with him and helped with the rigging.

Wow, wild congrats around.

Hey is there any chance we could get the line sag in the middle and Damians approximate weight to test our force calculations that we've been using? That'd be an excellent test since we know the specs so exactly.


misanthropic_nihilist


Mar 6, 2007, 11:09 AM
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slacker_jon wrote:
We used 3000 kg webing, and it was really humming.....
.....The system has to be nearly in equilibrium before you walk it!!

I won't be setting up any 400' lines anytime soon, but where does one get 3000kg webbing? Is it still 1" tubular? Is it nylon?

Also, what do you mean by equilibrium? That the tension without a person on the line has to be about the tension required to support the walker?


mikouak


Mar 7, 2007, 1:20 PM
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Hi there!

If anyone's interested, here are some pics from Polish Slackline Open (Saturday) as well as the Sunday hardcore with Damian walking the 405 footer.

http://stawik.ykr4.net/slack/PSO_2007_1.rar
Saturday

http://stawik.ykr4.net/slack/PSO_2007_2.rar
Sunday

(pls contact me before editing or publishing any of the photos, thank you)

PEACE!
Mikolaj


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