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Opposing Tri-Cam Placement
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guccipiggy


Mar 2, 2007, 7:02 AM
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Opposing Tri-Cam Placement
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When placing opposing tri-cams, Camp suggested:
"It's a good idea to carry 3 of 4 loops tied from 2" lengths of light-weight elastic (bungy) cord. These loops can be used to exert a constant tension between tri-cams used in opposition to each other".

Does anybody place opposing tri-cams with constant tension loops as suggested above?
Is it worth carrying these bungy cords to get tangled up on your other gear?


dynamo_


Mar 2, 2007, 7:05 AM
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Re: [guccipiggy] Opposing Tri-Cam Placement [In reply to]
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Bungy? No....

This is what I do:

Use a sliding x out of a 24" runner (or whatever is the proper length)

OR

Clip one, clove hitch or slip knot tension to the other and clip the loose 'tail'....may not make sense without a picture.


bobruef


Mar 2, 2007, 7:22 AM
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Re: [guccipiggy] Opposing Tri-Cam Placement [In reply to]
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I'm not opposed to tri-cam placements. Laugh


guccipiggy


Mar 2, 2007, 7:24 AM
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Re: [bobruef] Opposing Tri-Cam Placement [In reply to]
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bobruef wrote:
I'm not opposed to tri-cam placements. Laugh

It's not you I'm worried about.
The tri-cams man!


bobruef


Mar 2, 2007, 7:35 AM
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Re: [guccipiggy] Opposing Tri-Cam Placement [In reply to]
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guccipiggy wrote:
bobruef wrote:
I'm not opposed to tri-cam placements. Laugh

It's not you I'm worried about.
The tri-cams man!

oh...(clears throught)... excuse me... Well, you have to respect their wishes. I mean... no means no. If the tri-cam is opposed to being placed, you've got to be cool about it. LaughLaughLaugh

I'll be here all week Laugh snare-snare-cymbal


guccipiggy


Mar 2, 2007, 7:55 AM
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Re: [dynamo_] Opposing Tri-Cam Placement [In reply to]
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Thanks for the reply
The idea of the bungee cord is to have constant tension from what I get from the Camp literature.
The sliding X does not create that but I could see the clove hitch working. Maybe using a clove hitch with a runner on each biner attached to the tri-cams?
No extra stuff to carry.


chh


Mar 2, 2007, 8:00 AM
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dynamo_ wrote:
Bungy? No....

OR

Clip one, clove hitch or slip knot tension to the other and clip the loose 'tail'....may not make sense without a picture.

Do just like you would with opposing nuts. Clip a runner to the lower (upwards directional) one first. clove or slip knot the upper one, but you want a locking hitch on the upper piece, otherwise you are creating pulley action and placing more force than is necessary on it. I think rgold had some pictures a while back that served way better than the verbal description I'm about to give. Might want to see if he still has those photos.

-Clip the lower piece first with your runner.
-Clip (or pass)the runner through the upper piece's biner twice working toward you and the gate.
-Slide the wrap that is created up on the spine of the biner and give it a tug
-Pass the remaining bit of the runner behind the now tensioned part, through the biner, and back down making a half hitch.
-give it a tug.

There. Clear as mud.. I find this method easier to keep snug while tying than a clove hitch which is good if you're doing it with one hand. Although a clove would work I don't think I could do it as effectively with one hand.

cheers!


unrooted


Mar 2, 2007, 8:04 AM
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Re: [guccipiggy] Opposing Tri-Cam Placement [In reply to]
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screw all that complicated crap and just use vertically opposed hooks.


Partner rgold


Mar 2, 2007, 8:26 AM
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Re: [chh] Opposing Tri-Cam Placement [In reply to]
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chh wrote:
I think rgold had some pictures a while back that served way better than the verbal description I'm about to give. Might want to see if he still has those photos.


Here ya go:








Partner j_ung


Mar 2, 2007, 8:34 AM
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Re: [rgold] Opposing Tri-Cam Placement [In reply to]
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Neat trick, rgold, but with those thin Dyneema slings, I'm hesitant to do anything but clip them slinglike. I'll try it with my thicker slings, next time I need an opposition piece.

On a slightly different note, I've been looking for an experiment for when I head down to Misty's gear testing room sometime this season... something that hasn't been done to death. Perhaps various opposition methods are the ticket.


dynamo_


Mar 2, 2007, 8:36 AM
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^^^^

That's my #2 option with a different hitch.

The sliding x doesn't creat alot of tension, but if can 'set' the tricam with a tug, this often matters less than keeping them oriented in the right direction. I have found the sliding x suffiecient for this...

But, it ALWAYS depends.


(This post was edited by dynamo_ on Mar 2, 2007, 8:37 AM)


zeke_sf


Mar 2, 2007, 9:03 AM
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dynamo_ wrote:
But, it ALWAYS depends.

Feel free to mod away, but this reminds me of a barroom favorite:

What does it taste like when you go downstairs on an 80 year old woman?








ba-dum-cha!!!!!


guccipiggy


Mar 2, 2007, 9:32 AM
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Thanks for the pics. Much easier to follow with them.


moose_droppings


Mar 2, 2007, 10:32 AM
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Thanks cch for the tip and thanks rgold for the pix.
A lot simpler than what I was doing.


napoleon_in_rags


Mar 4, 2007, 7:39 PM
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Re: [guccipiggy] Opposing Tri-Cam Placement [In reply to]
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guccipiggy wrote:
"It's a good idea to carry 3 of 4 loops tied from 2" lengths of light-weight elastic (bungy) cord. These loops can be used to exert a constant tension between tri-cams used in opposition to each other".

Has anyone ever seen a bungy cord that is rated for protecting humans?


reno


Mar 4, 2007, 8:22 PM
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Re: [napoleon_in_rags] Opposing Tri-Cam Placement [In reply to]
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napoleon_in_rags wrote:
Has anyone ever seen a bungy cord that is rated for protecting humans?

Yep


dan2see


Mar 4, 2007, 10:03 PM
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Go to C.A.M.P. Tri-Cam web page, http://www.camp.it/....aspx?codicemenu=103
and download the Instruction Handbook PDF
http://www.camp.it/...114-12C446AA2725.pdf

On the PDF, look for Figure H - Vertical Placement, and Figure G - Shallow Horizontal Crack Placement.

In both pictures, you will see one tri-cam placed as "pro" with a red sling, hanging in the direction of pull. BUT these are placements that can shake loose. The SECOND tri-cam is installed for the sole purpose of keeping the first one from wiggling loose. It's a pro for the pro.

That first piece needs constant tension, which is why it needs an elastic. Not only that, but the leader could drag his rope past this placement. When that first tri-cam wiggles around, the elastic bungy will pull it back into its place.

So, you can see that this "opposed with bungy" is a different action, that ordinary hardware does not provide.

CAMP is in Italy. Where they climb, maybe they can buy the correct shape, size, and weight of bungy. Here in Canada, I'm sure I'd have to improvise.


rescueman


Jul 8, 2011, 11:00 AM
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Re: [napoleon_in_rags] Opposing Tri-Cam Placement [In reply to]
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napoleon_in_rags wrote:
Has anyone ever seen a bungy cord that is rated for protecting humans?

Have you ever heard of bungee jumping?

[don't you hate it when someone revives an ancient thread?]


(This post was edited by rescueman on Jul 8, 2011, 11:01 AM)


rescueman


Jul 8, 2011, 11:06 AM
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dan2see wrote:
The SECOND tri-cam is installed for the sole purpose of keeping the first one from wiggling loose. It's a pro for the pro.

But, since I've re-awakened this old discussion, I'll add that the lower piece is not simply "pro for the pro", or the climber's rope would be clipped in to only the top piece.

A major advantage of such vertically-opposing placements is that it can resist either an upward or a downward force, making it safe for both a last placement and an intermediate one.

The bungee shouldn't be necessary if the pieces are well set. I prefer nuts for the lower or opposing piece since they are less likely to wiggle loose, but a well set Tricam in good rock can work too.


dan2see


Jul 8, 2011, 2:56 PM
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Here in the Canadian Rockies, we don't use elastic or bungee. Instead, we use a long sling or static cord. I clip the bottom piece anyway I can, then I clove-hitch the sling to the upper piece. The trick is to tighten the hitch so the rig keeps both pieces jammed in. For an anchor, this rig counts as just one piece. For pro, I clip a draw (long or short) to the upper piece. Although I've never used the "opposing pair" for pro.


Partner rgold


Jul 8, 2011, 4:11 PM
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Since this thread has been resurrected, I thought I'd mention another fast and easy one-hand tensioning method: use a Garda "hitch" (it isn't even remotely a hitch) or "Alpine Clutch" on one of the pieces.


oldcolombodog


Jul 8, 2011, 7:32 PM
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Re: [guccipiggy] Opposing Tri-Cam Placement [In reply to]
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A small diameter bungy is light, simple, quick and easy and does not support your body weight at any time. I like it better than a sling or any hitching. I use about three feet of 5 mil bungee tied into a sling with a double fisherman which is probably way overkill for what it does.


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