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tradmanclimbs
Apr 9, 2007, 5:24 PM
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One from last season the rest from this season. All on lead. All leads finished with spare tool except for one which was finished with spare pick. Surgery done at the belay. Notice that all breaks happened at the exact same spot. 3 picks have allmost identicle break patterns. This is starting to affect my confidence in the tools. I may have to switch to Quarks or Nomics for next season if BD cannot correct this problem. Been Ice climbing since the early eightys and had only broken one pick previously. A skinny hummingbird pick broken soloing a grade 4 pillar 1987.
(This post was edited by tradmanclimbs on Apr 9, 2007, 5:36 PM)
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crimpstrength
Apr 9, 2007, 5:28 PM
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That's nice but have you contacted BD about the issue or are you just whining about it here where it doesn't really matter? In all fairness to BD, you should, at least, state here whether or not you have contacted (or attempted to contact) Black Diamond about your picks.
Thanks
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tradmanclimbs
Apr 9, 2007, 5:39 PM
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Photo is up now. these guys have tried to kill me 4 times in the last2 years. who said anything about fair
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jp_sucks
Apr 9, 2007, 5:47 PM
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I've been using those same picks for years with 50+days a year on ice/mixed/alpine and have never broken one.
Instead of wasting your money on more picks, I'd suggest lessons from a qualified guide to teach you how to use them properly so you don't keep breaking them.
Just because you've climbed a long time doesn't mean you're doing it right.
(I'm not trying to be rude here but it really is a skill thing. When I was learning, I broke picks a lot too)
(This post was edited by jp_sucks on Apr 9, 2007, 5:49 PM)
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tradmanclimbs
Apr 9, 2007, 6:05 PM
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Yeah I've heard that one before as well. i can tap dance up stuff on second with the best of them but on lead it's war and i have no use for equiptment that can't handle the buisness. Quite a few of the guys here in the north east have broken the same pick and some of these guys are pretty hard. none of them have had a problem with the quark/nomics though???
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tradmanclimbs
Apr 9, 2007, 6:17 PM
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One guy Ive climbed with here routienly solos 5+ swings so hard he broke the head right off of a machine leading WI6 but dosent seem to have any troubble with his Quark picks:)
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vashie
Apr 9, 2007, 6:38 PM
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you could drill out some quark picks for your bd tools, it worked the other way around (BD picks on CM tools that is)
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natec
Apr 9, 2007, 6:54 PM
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tradmanclimbs wrote: One guy Ive climbed with here routienly solos 5+ swings so hard he broke the head right off of a machine leading WI6 but dosent seem to have any troubble with his Quark picks:)
Sounds like you should buy some Quarks. What do you want? Validation?
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tradmanclimbs
Apr 9, 2007, 7:01 PM
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I want BD to start working on a better pick material for next year. I have a good system and am happy with the way the Viper androids climb. I don't want to shell out $500 clams but I am starting to lose confidence on those hard poorly protected pitches....
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rocknice2
Apr 9, 2007, 7:17 PM
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tradmanclimbs wrote: I want BD to start working on a better pick material for next year. I have a good system and am happy with the way the Viper androids climb. I don't want to shell out $500 clams but I am starting to lose confidence on those hard poorly protected pitches....
Did you contact BD?
What did they say?
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petsfed
Apr 9, 2007, 7:18 PM
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tradmanclimbs wrote: I want BD to start working on a better pick material for next year. I have a good system and am happy with the way the Viper androids climb. I don't want to shell out $500 clams but I am starting to lose confidence on those hard poorly protected pitches....
So then you've definitely told BD about this. Right? Shouting in a vacuum won't get much done.
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g_i_g_i
Apr 9, 2007, 7:21 PM
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Looking at the picture, it seems that at least the three bottom picks broke because they were torqued (just a superficial analysis from the picture, may be wrong). If that is the case, if BD starts making softer, more resilient picks, and you use them, chances are that you'll end up with more bent picks, if you torque them like that.
edit: sorry, I forgot to add: obviously send them to BD, if you haven't done it yet, they are more qualified than most of us to tell you what's wrong with the picks and/or the way you used them.
(This post was edited by g_i_g_i on Apr 9, 2007, 7:32 PM)
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maldaly
Apr 9, 2007, 7:27 PM
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If the batch numbers are all the same you should send them to BD ASAP. Hell, you should send them to BD anyway. They need to see them.
Mal
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tradmanclimbs
Apr 9, 2007, 7:55 PM
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Batch #rs are diferent. Breaks are about evenly split left and right tool. Of course I tourqe the picks. I'm climbing. I don't mind a pick bending. AIn reply to: bent pick still works and can be hammered back into shape. A busted pick is dificult to handle on steep thin unprotected ice!!! Tryed sending the photos in an email to BD but it bounced back? Maby their firewall thought it was spam??
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natec
Apr 9, 2007, 8:05 PM
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tradmanclimbs wrote: I want BD to start working on a better pick material for next year. I have a good system and am happy with the way the Viper androids climb. I don't want to shell out $500 clams but I am starting to lose confidence on those hard poorly protected pitches....
Try using Titan picks instead of Lasers.
Quit torquing your tools left and right when you are removing them.
Here's something you probably know but don't use a machine of any kind to sharpen them. File them by hand.
Lastly, contact BD. An issue like this is something they would want to know about and approaching them with a positive attitude will get you a lot further than spouting from the e-rooftops about how unhappy you are.
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tradmanclimbs
Apr 9, 2007, 8:14 PM
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I don't tourq the picks when cleaning them. I do tourque them when going arround corners, climbing skinny pillars (swing sideways behind the pillar so you don't shear the bitch right off) and ocasional drytooling. the T rated picks suck. they displace too much ice. contrary to populer beliefeI am not a total hack and like a precision pick, I just expect it to keep me alive and not mysteriously fall apart..... I know 2 guys who even broke the T rated picks..
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stevej
Apr 9, 2007, 8:20 PM
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Hey Mal, you know lots about engineering and metal and stuff, why don't you or someone make pics from Aer-met alloy steel? From what little I know about it, it would be the perfect drytooling pick material. Pricey maybe?
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maldaly
Apr 9, 2007, 9:47 PM
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We looked at Aermet but there are tons of problems with manufacturing. In the quantities and price range you need to make for the HUGE climbing world, it's just not a practical material to use.
If you want to read about some wicked-cool steel, check this out: http://www.wired.com/...02/dragonslayer.html
Mal
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tomcat
Apr 9, 2007, 10:05 PM
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Watching this is fucking comical...nothing shy.Trad leads hard ice,and climbs more ice days than anyone I know.Leads all the pitches at Willoughby.Trad has his systems dialed like no one I have ever seen.Ouray is a joke by comparison.Get a qualified guide Trad...OMG.
Trad..this is rc.....what are you doing in here with these ninnys?
Just because you've been doing it a long time.......hahahahahahahahahahahahahah
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tradmanclimbs
Apr 9, 2007, 10:08 PM
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Thanks for the Vote of confidence Tom.. I wish i could lead everything at the lake but that day is a long way off I do get my fair share of spankings up there there though here is another photo that really shows how close the breaks are.
(This post was edited by tradmanclimbs on Apr 9, 2007, 10:24 PM)
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g_i_g_i
Apr 9, 2007, 10:51 PM
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In reply to: Trad leads hard ice,and climbs more ice days than anyone I know.Leads all the pitches at Willoughby.Trad has his systems dialed like no one
With all the respect, but put it this way, generally the guy who drives the truck for a living is not the same who designed it. (Somehow this reminds me of what people had to say in rgold's thread on bolts.)
I'm sure that whoever designed the laser pick at BD is very interested in trad's story and can possibly use it to improve the pick.
The fact that trad has his system really dialed is evident by the fact that he broke four identical picks in the same way every time.
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foeslts16
Apr 9, 2007, 11:00 PM
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well fuck, tomcat you must be a fuckin expert, judging by your more than enlightening post.
I have used the same BD laser picks for 3 years now (mixed, WI, Alpine, dry-tooling) and have never had a problem.
send em to BD.
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tomcat
Apr 9, 2007, 11:06 PM
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Actually what it makes evident is that he climbs a butt load of ice.
As far as I'm aware in my thirty years of ice climbing,things go pretty much to grade 6,with exceptions for a few souls.So WTF is with somebody telling a guy that leads grade five he should get a guide?
I don't like my Laser picks at all,Trad you can have mine.I run Titans(in Cobras) and like 'em way better.
Quark picks are totally different steel as far as I can tell.
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tomcat
Apr 9, 2007, 11:11 PM
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.....and I have never broken a pick in my life,and weld the shit out of my tools all the time.And I sharpen my crampons with a grinder....
Take that back I broke the pick off a Curver(Scottish tool)back in the early eighties.
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dcaldous
Apr 9, 2007, 11:34 PM
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BD did have Aer-met picks for a while back when they were selling the carbon fiber Black prophet. they were 50 or 60 bucks each so they probably sold very few and discontinued them.
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