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clymber
Sep 24, 2002, 1:55 AM
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How long should the bolt be when putting up a sport route in sandstone. Will 3 1/3" be good enough or should it be 5". This will be my first time bolting sandstone and dont want to do it halfassed
[ This Message was edited by: clymber on 2002-09-25 15:03 ]
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roughster
Sep 27, 2002, 12:21 PM
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If it very fine grained and compact sandstone, 3+" should be fine. However, sandstone being a relatively weak rock (yes I know this is not universally true) I would go with 1/2 X 3" minimum. 5" would be even better, but 1/2 X 3" should do the trick in all but absolute shite rock.
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rockfax
Sep 28, 2002, 5:57 PM
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From:
http://safeclimbing.org/info.html#how-to
What to Place
Anytime you drill a hole you have the opportunity to place a bomber bolt that will last for decades. Yet some climbers squander this opportunity by placing whatever was cheapest at the hardware store. Before you start replacing bolts, be sure you have the right hardware. Always use stainless equipment even in the driest climates.
Rawl 5 Piece
The Rawl five piece has been a standard for many years and with good reason. It is among the strongest bolt available for hard to medium-soft rock and is removable, which will be convenient when they need to be replaced in 30 years or so. They do require a very clean hole, however. Although great in solid sandstone, in softer rock such as the canyonlands rock dust may jam the threads, causing the bolt to spin in place without tightening. The Hilti HSL is similar to the Rawl bolt in design and strength but is hard to come by. Do not overtighten the bolts, as the head can shear off, or worse, be at the point where it is about to shear. Get a torque wrench, and use it on practice rocks to learn how tight is proper.
Fixe
Fixe and makes the strongest wedge bolt available in the US. In the longer sizes this bolt has two expansion clips, making it a good choice for medium strength rock. Wedge bolts rely on a small clip sliding onto a cone, and in soft rock the clips may not catch, instead carving small grooves back out as the bolt is tightened. Wedge bolt available at hardware stores have the same design as the Fixe bolt but are nowhere near as strong. Even worse, their strength levels tend to be erratic, so you never really know what you are getting. Again, always tighten to the specified torque, as excessive tightening can cause failure.
Petzl Long Life (hard rock only)
The Petzl long life is an ideal bolt with two problems – price, and difficulty in obtaining the 12mm drill bits. At $8.60 retail (hanger included) it is no wonder that these bolts have yet to gain popularity in the U.S. Still, if you can get your hands on them, their short length (2") makes them the only 1/2"-range bolt feasible to place by hand. Do NOT use a 1/2" bit (12.7mm), as the hole will be too large for the Long Life bolt. One such bolt, originally held in by epoxy, was removed with fingers alone on Rixon’s Pinnacle in Yosemite Valley.
Glue-ins
Place a glue-in properly and it is the strongest, longest-lasting bolt available. But if the hole diameter is slightly off or you don't use the proper amount of glue, they can be incredibly weak. Unless you are willing to spend the great effort required to learn how to place glue-ins properly, stick to the other recommended bolts.
Hangers
All commercial hangers that are stainless steel and rated to at least 5000 pounds are recommended. All homemade hangers and cold shuts, on the other hand, are completely unreliable and should never be placed on climbing routes.
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boltdude
Sep 30, 2002, 4:19 AM
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Depends on the sandstone.
Email me with details and I'll give you advice or send you to someone who knows your area.
Short answer: poor/medium sandstone: LONG glue-ins. Medium/hard: LONG 1/2" 5-piece Rawls (Power-Bolts). Hard: shorter 5-pieces OK, depending on just how hard.
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tigerbythetail
Oct 8, 2002, 6:36 AM
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If it's a sport route and it's steep, go with 1/2" x 4" Rawl 5 piece. If it's on the soft side these should still work, and if it's too soft for these try glue-ins.
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apollodorus
Oct 8, 2002, 6:52 AM
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There're some sandstone cliffs at the beach near me that wouldn't hold a 1/2" x 5" bolt on a short fall. I used to drive 3/4" steel pipe (the stuff plumbers use) about two feet in for toprope anchors. No drill required. The holds used to pull off all the time, but you could dig your own with bare fingers if you needed to.
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tigerbythetail
Oct 8, 2002, 4:42 PM
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If the rock is so soft it won't hold a bolt then maybe you should forget it and find some real ROCK. Sand is great for the beach, not climbing.
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wigglestick
Oct 8, 2002, 5:02 PM
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I don't know for sure but in really soft rock I have seen alot of drilled angles which seem to hold up pretty well. I am not sure if this is the most modern method but one to possibly consider.
http://www.climbing.com/Pages/Techtip_pages/206/techtip206_aid.html
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rocknpowda
Oct 8, 2002, 5:11 PM
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what kind of bolts were used in the area around there? In my experience (climbed and bolted in soutern utah for 5 years) 1/2"x3.5-4" long rawls are perfectly suited to sandstone. Baby angles also work well but if the route is going to see alot of ascents, might as well go with the rawls. Check out your local concrete/building supplier, they might have them cheaper than the climbing shop or Big Box home improvement store.
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shawkshaw
Oct 16, 2002, 11:03 AM
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glue in are the only way to go in sandstone. even hard sandstone is weak compard with granites etc and standard dynabolt style (with the possible exception of RAWLS) bolts can WORK LOOSE over time. if you want to do it the proper way first time round use Glue ins everytime in sandstone.
plus whats the point of asking a question if the answers everyone gives tell him that hes not ready to bolt. you gotta START getting the info somewhere.
steve
[ This Message was edited by: shawkshaw on 2002-10-16 04:04 ]
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clymber
Oct 16, 2002, 11:32 AM
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fleapuppy if you read my whole post you would have seen that i said this will be my first time bolting sandstone...yes i have bolted before but this will be my FIRST time on sandstone and want to do it right the first time
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