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Fear sometimes good?
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clee03m


Apr 16, 2007, 6:34 AM
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Fear sometimes good?
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I think my fear of falling makes me climb harder. I sometimes can't top rope some of the routes I lead. Is fear always a bad thing? Should I still work on getting over the fear of falling?


arnoilgner


Apr 16, 2007, 10:03 PM
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Re: [clee03m] Fear sometimes good? [In reply to]
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hello clee03m,
how do you feel DURING your climbing when motivated by fear? do you really enjoy it? or, would you rather enjoy facing your fear of falling directly instead of having it drive you up the climb...kinda like helping you get the climbing over with so you can go back to work? i don't think this is what you want from climbing.
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consider...
are you motivated by comfort or learning? being motivated by seeking comfort makes you do things to seek end results that create comfort for you. by getting to the top of routes any which way you can, by fear, you allow your ego to feel good that it accomplished something. if you are rather motivated by learning, then you face your fears directly, learn about them and expand your ability to arrive at those end goals. don't you feel great when you do the work and exert the effort to meet a challenge? that work is a process, not an end goal. end goals are only manifestations of the effort you exert. keep attention on the process, learning about your fears, and the end goals will take care of themselves.
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just some thoughts to consider.
arno


clee03m


Apr 17, 2007, 6:43 AM
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That is a good point. I definately enjoy climbing more when I am not in irrational fear of falling. It's like I have to get past the crux so that I can enjoy the rest of the climb. I will keep working on my lead head.

I really enjoyed your book and your posts. Thanks.

Christine


arnoilgner


Apr 17, 2007, 4:03 PM
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hi christine,
i've found that the biggest skill climbers lack is the ability to deal with stress/chaos. we try to skirt around stress instead of developing the ability to deal with it. being motivated by fear to get up a route is a kind of skirting game. so, i urge climbers, in my clinics especially, to be present for the climbing stress. you can do this by:
1. breathe, calmly, deeply
2. when you are climbing (not stopped and resting) keep moving. make your moves more continuous.
3. stay as relaxed as possible by lowering your heels and loosening your grip.
4. find creative rests.
5. keep your eyes looking at where your feet/hands need to go and up (where you are going) instead of looking down at the last pro. your attention goes where your eyes are looking. if you are looking down your attention is in escape mode.
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all of these suggestions engage your body and as a result your mind will have less limiting thoughts. enjoy your climbing and your journey. it can be fun if you allow it to be.
best, arno


mturner


May 12, 2007, 10:30 AM
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Re: [arnoilgner] Fear sometimes good? [In reply to]
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arnoilgner wrote:
are you motivated by comfort or learning? being motivated by seeking comfort makes you do things to seek end results that create comfort for you. by getting to the top of routes any which way you can, by fear, you allow your ego to feel good that it accomplished something. if you are rather motivated by learning, then you face your fears directly, learn about them and expand your ability to arrive at those end goals. don't you feel great when you do the work and exert the effort to meet a challenge? that work is a process, not an end goal. end goals are only manifestations of the effort you exert. keep attention on the process, learning about your fears, and the end goals will take care of themselves.
-
just some thoughts to consider.
arno

arno,
good advice. Follow up question...when you are ready to send a route/problem how do you distinguish between being motivated by learning and motivated by fear. Is there ever a balance? Also, you say to "face your fears directly, learn about them and expand your ability to arrive at those end goals." How do you know when this is accomplished instead of being driven by fear. In other words, if the end goal/result is the same, is just the feeling different?


(This post was edited by mturner on May 12, 2007, 10:35 AM)


arnoilgner


May 15, 2007, 10:26 PM
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hi mturner,
"being motivated by fear"
if you are preparing for a redpoint effort and are worried about not sending and you do everything you can to make sure the redpoint occurs then you are motivated by fear. your attention is on not losing the redpoint ascent and so your motivation is on the fear of possibly losing that ascent.
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"being motivated by learning"
if you are preparing for a redpoint effort you know you aren't working the route anymore; you want to test your knowledge to see if you can apply it so a redpoint ascent manifests. in other words, yes, you initial goal is to redpoint, but the real goal is testing your abilities, applying all the skills you learned to see how well you learned them. this keeps your attention on applying those skills. you aren't worried about losing a redpoint ascent because your main goal is seeing how well you can apply your skills.
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there is no balance (happy medium) between being motivated by fear and learning. fear motivation might engage you more than just hoping you do well but that's about it. to perform your best you must have attention in the moment. fear motivation distracts attention from the moment. learning keeps attention in the moment.
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how do you know when you've made the switch to learning motivation?...
how do you react/respond to the outcome (when you don't get to the top)? if you get frustrated, lose motivation, or get disillusioned then you are being motivated by fear. if you stay curious and excited then you are motivated by learning.
arno


mturner


May 16, 2007, 10:27 AM
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Re: [arnoilgner] Fear sometimes good? [In reply to]
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arnoilgner wrote:
how do you know when you've made the switch to learning motivation?...
how do you react/respond to the outcome (when you don't get to the top)? if you get frustrated, lose motivation, or get disillusioned then you are being motivated by fear. if you stay curious and excited then you are motivated by learning.
arno

arno,
This really clarified things for me! I understood and agreed with what you were saying but I needed a way for me to know I'm in the right mind set so when I'm not I can work on fixing it. Going on a trip today so I'll try it out. Thanks!


dbogardus


Dec 20, 2010, 12:34 PM
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Re: [clee03m] Fear sometimes good? [In reply to]
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clee03m wrote:
I sometimes can't top rope some of the routes I lead.

Sounds like you're giving up too easily.


notapplicable


Dec 20, 2010, 2:28 PM
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Re: [clee03m] Fear sometimes good? [In reply to]
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clee03m wrote:
I think my fear of falling makes me climb harder. I sometimes can't top rope some of the routes I lead. Is fear always a bad thing? Should I still work on getting over the fear of falling?

http://www.rockclimbing.com/...6;page=unread#unread


spikeddem


Dec 21, 2010, 6:45 AM
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Re: [notapplicable] Fear sometimes good? [In reply to]
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notapplicable wrote:
clee03m wrote:
I think my fear of falling makes me climb harder. I sometimes can't top rope some of the routes I lead. Is fear always a bad thing? Should I still work on getting over the fear of falling?

http://www.rockclimbing.com/...6;page=unread#unread
while(1)


Brilivant


Jan 29, 2012, 8:43 AM
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Re: [clee03m] Fear sometimes good? [In reply to]
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Fear is good. It makes you more careful and more mindful when you're climbing. Healthy amount of fear helps you avoid needless mistakes.


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