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kimgraves
Apr 25, 2007, 1:39 PM
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Early mountain boots were simply walking boots outfitted with "hobnails" - iron nails that protruded from leather soles 1/8" or so. These actually offered very good traction on ice and rock.
Then in 1936, Italian Vitale Bramani developed a revolutionary new sole using "vulcanized rubber technology". Originally the "Vibram sole" was produced in conjunction with the Pirelli Tire Company.
The Vibram sole - the combination of rubber and aggressive tread - offered superior traction and has since become the industry standard.
For forty years after the war the light weight approach shoes of today were unknown. The boots above are an Aslo product that I bought in the early 70's as my "hikers." They weigh in at 5-1/2 pounds and are equipped with the ubiquitous Vibram sole.
Modern shoes are much lighter. The boots on the left are a forgotten Italian shoe now 20 years that weighs about 3-1/2 lbs. The Scarpa Omega (middle) is a double boot that weighs about 4 lbs. The Scarpa Freney (right) weighs in also at 4 lbs. Though these three boots are made for different applications the trend is to use lighter and lighter boots.
Modern day approach shoes - still with the aggressive Vibram sole - now weigh in at 2 lbs. People carry even very heavy loads using these products.
Now Vibram has introduced a revolutionary new product: Vibram Five Fingers.
Five Fingers were originally designed as a water, sailing shoe, but they were immediately embraced by the barefooted running crowd. Barefooted running is born out of the observation that despite all the high tech going into running and approach shoes, knee, ankle, hip, and foot injuries are as common as ever. In short all this technology doesn't work to keep people from getting injured. The dictum of "needing support" keeps the leg structures from getting and staying strong. Humans evolved on the savanna, walking and running barefoot. Not much has changed, from an evolutionary standpoint, in the couple of thousand years people have been wearing shoes. There is good evidence that the bare foot is still the ideal structure to walk, run, and live on. Also.
From the website: "Wearing Five Fingers stretches and strengthens muscles in the feet and lower legs, improving balance, agility, range of motion and speed. Strengthening these muscles not only leads to better performance, it can reduce injury and help develop healthier feet."
Five Fingers were so popular, when they were introduced last year, that the immediately sold out (like Patagonia's R1 hoodie). I tried to get a pair last year but couldn't. In March when I went to Mt Washington - climbing in my Scarpa Omega's (couldn't ask for much more support than that) - I sustained an injury. The toes on my foot got sprained from all the kicking. When I asked my doc he said my toes just weren't up to the work load. So I tracked down a pair of Five Fingers so that I would be forced to use my toes and thereby straighten them.
So that's the theory. But how do these funny shoes work?
First, what are these things? It's a glove for your feet with a thin Vibram sole. It's all nylon/rubber so it won't absorb water. Despite the rubber, they seem to breathe really well: like a softshell. They're "warm" even on 40 degree days.
You definitely need to try these things on before buying. I normally take a 42, but that was too big. I fit a 40, but decided on a 41 which has turned out to be right for me. They're not like climbing shoes, but there shouldn't be room in the toes or heal. They should fit like a glove.
I've been wearing the shoes around town now for a couple of months (almost no one notices); riding the subway; walking on the street; running around town. I can definitely feel my feet working harder. They are great to work out in: especially lifting weights. You really feel grounded.
Five Fingers take some getting used to. I felt VERY self conscious wearing them and tentative in my steps. It's hard to trust that you can take a normal stride; that you can run it them; that you can jump in them. After wearing shoes for 50 years it feels very unnatural to go "barefoot" out in the city streets.
Gradually I began to relax and enjoy myself. I started running for the train, running across the street to beat the light just like I normally do. Sometimes I actually forgot I was wearing them.
About a month ago I sustained a shoulder injury - no climbing. Last weekend my partner, Matt, took pity on me and the two of us decided to go for a hike. On the way north we scoped out a 10 mile route over four ridges and valleys in the Catskills. Being dubious about wearing the Five Fingers for 10 miles I brought my normal approach shoes and a pair of socks with me. With lunch, 3 L of water and incidentals, I was probably carrying 12ish pounds.
We climbed down a stream bed and then up through a hardwood forest till we topped out onto the open rock summit. Up and down for what ended up being 6-1/2 hours and 13 miles (we went the long way). We crossed all types of ground: gravel; pine needle; sand; smooth polished rock; sharp rock; exposed roots; moss; dirt; mud. Some of them hurt - the sharp rock and roots - but it was a leaning a new way to walk. You had to pay attention to where you put your feet. Normally I would step onto an exposed sharp root knowing that the sole would protect me. Now I had to pay attention and place my feet more specifically. Consequently I felt much more in balance and much more sure footed. We scrambled up and down 3rd class sections and always the Five Fingers were sure footed: maybe because the sole is so flexible you can get a lot of it on the rock, so friction is very good.
What was most interesting about walking in the Five Fingers, however is what it felt like. This is touchy-feely but every one of those different grounds felt different. You can really feel through your feet. So it was like being out in the world with a new sensory organ. And that was experientially very interesting. For example, usually when I cross a stream I take care to keep my feet dry. But in the Five Fingers it doesn't matter. So I found myself enjoying the cold water as I waded across. Also crossing mud. Usually I walk around, but with the Five Fingers the mud felt great.
There were time when it hurt to wear them, crossing exposed roots on washed out trail was the worst. But even there I found ways to walk that were less painful than others. And I wasn't any slower than usual. Matt lead a lot of the day and I kept up without trouble.
Here I am standing in the last snow of the season! I never did switch to my approach shoes. Next time I'll leave those two pounds behind.
Could you carry a large load with these? My guess is with practice you could. I'm trying to wear them as my standard day-to-day shoe so as to strengthen my feet. I assume, once my feet are strong carrying a pack will be no problem.
And they weigh less than 10 oz's!
Best, Kim
(This post was edited by kimgraves on Oct 9, 2008, 11:45 AM)
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jakedatc
Apr 25, 2007, 2:19 PM
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Nice Kim! As someone who wears slide type sandals almost any time i'm not working (usually policy or cold weather determined not myself) Those would be a fun next step. I agree with the whole finding a new way to walk. My friend and I had to do a long walk off from Whitehorse barefoot (forgot the approach shoes) and he was miserable but since I am used to paying attention to my feet i had no real complains.
I like the loops in the back.. easy to throw a biner on and i bet you'd hardly notice them on a harness for multi pitch
If used consistently i bet you could do larger loads. AT thru hikers tend to end up in sneakers or sandals after a while. It's all about building strength and awareness.
nice review
(This post was edited by jakedatc on Apr 25, 2007, 2:20 PM)
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bent_gate
Apr 25, 2007, 3:10 PM
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Kim,
Thanks for the nice review. I remember when I first got into climbing, my feet were so weak from a life of wearing shoes that it took awhile to build up foot strength so that I could effectively use my big toe. I've often wondered how more foot strength would affect climbing.
I'm curious, have you noticed any differences in your climbing footwork since you have been using these?
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caughtinside
Apr 25, 2007, 3:25 PM
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Kim,
a couple follow up questions, if you'll indulge!
cost?
sweaty feet not a factor/not a problem getting dirt inside the shoes?
and did you try climbing with them??
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kimgraves
Apr 25, 2007, 3:49 PM
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There are three models which cost essentially the same as an approach shoe.
The "classic" (being all of 1 year old) which I'm wearing in the photo above. $70. These are recommended for hiking, yoga, boating, etc.
The "Sprint" which has a Velcro closure across the instep and heal. This makes them much more secure on your feet. $80 These could be used for climbing I would think.
The "Surge" which is lined with neoprene making them much warmer - good for surfing, fishing on the flats, etc. $100
I'm going to get the Sprint the next time.
I've not tried climbing anything hard in them. But they were *very secure on the third class we did. I could edge on 1/2" holds and friction with them. Would I class 5.easy with them. Yea, I'd give it a try on TR.  In the mean time, I'm going to use them as my summer approach shoe.
Sweaty feet were not a problem. No more so then sweaty feet in sneakers with socks. And I was surprised that dirt was not more of a problem. But every time I got to a stream they would get clean.
I don't think they're for everyone though. You have to be willing to go through some training and suspend your doubts during that period.
But nobody asked the obvious question: Why are they called Five FINGERS?
Best, Kim
Edit: I read somewhere that Chris Sharma warms up on 5.12 barefooted. Damn that kid.  
(This post was edited by kimgraves on Apr 25, 2007, 6:20 PM)
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ironmike
Apr 25, 2007, 6:58 PM
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I bought a pair last fall, and have, on occasion bouldered in them. I've found that they're best on overhanging problems and moderate routes. When I first used them what struck me the most was the way my footwork changed as opposed to using a climbing shoe. Foot strength definitely comes into0 play. Hope this helps
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granite_grrl
Apr 26, 2007, 5:12 AM
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At first glance I thought these things would be lame. But your review got me thinking. I used to never wear shoes when I was younger. Walking on the local roads, through the woods, etc. Your feet wold just toughen up. Used to drive my dad nuts, but I don't really like shoes.
Once I started living in cities shoes were pretty much manditory. Too many people, too much spitting, vomiting and various other body fluids have been spilled on the side walks. Maybe I could recapture that enjoyment of not wearing shoes with these things.
Or maybe I should just consider going barefoot for a while on my next hike in the woods. Its been a long time since I've done that.
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chh
Apr 26, 2007, 5:41 AM
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Do the toe sections stretch at all? My second toe is a lot longer than my big toe. Most shoes made around that nice taper a "normal" foot has are very uncomfortable, including most climbing shoes. I like the feeling of going barefoot, but sometimes it's just not possible in the city. I would be interested in them if your feet didn't have to look the way the shoes do.....
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chh
Apr 26, 2007, 6:51 AM
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Kim,
I did find that info on the website. They say any longer than a .4cm difference and you probably won't get a good fit. I also have narrow feet, and people with wide feet who have a good fit in a shoe I usually flop around in. Unfortunately, I'd be very surprised if there were a place anywhere close to me that carried them to try on. Sounds like they won't work for me, but they are still a great idea.
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skinnyclimber
Apr 26, 2007, 7:33 AM
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chh wrote: Kim, I did find that info on the website. They say any longer than a .4cm difference and you probably won't get a good fit. I also have narrow feet, and people with wide feet who have a good fit in a shoe I usually flop around in. Unfortunately, I'd be very surprised if there were a place anywhere close to me that carried them to try on. Sounds like they won't work for me, but they are still a great idea.
I would bet that if these things catch on like it sounds like they will, there will be many other companies producing them, hopefully that will result in a variation that fits you. (gotta hate the one-size-fits-enough-to-make-us-rich mentality of virtually all modern corporations)
These look like a sweet shoe for hiking down to the bottom of a multipitch climb. Light and either clip or fit in a pack all nice!!
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j_ung
Apr 26, 2007, 8:14 AM
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What a great review, Kim. Thanks!
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crackers
Apr 26, 2007, 8:31 AM
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kimgraves wrote: I've been wearing the shoes around town now for a couple of months (almost no one notices); ...
With all due respect, this simply is not true. Whenever I have seen Kim wearing them, I've burst into laughter and made fun of him. I am not the only one to do so. He looks like he is trying out for a job as a Hobbit or something.
Snarky sartorial comment aside, he's got the grin of the one who might just laugh last...
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leeadams
Mar 20, 2008, 5:33 PM
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I was at first curious about Vibram 5 Finger shoes and contacted Vibram headquarters with further questions. Instead I received trite, manufactured, generic, dispassionate responses from their customer service department - GEORGIA SHAW (this woman has absolutely no idea what customer service is). For a small company trying to break into a very large industry, they certainly think small when hiring such incompetent staff. If they are that bad at customer service how can I trust their shoes on my feet?
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azenari
Mar 25, 2008, 9:34 PM
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I'd like to add to the review that I don't think the Vibram 5 fingers is good for people with hard to fit feet but i am glad they fit you! I was so stoked to see a shoe that was meant for the "barefooting experience" that i rushed out for a fitting after reading your article. Boy was i disappointed. I'm a weird size to begin with, but they looked stretchy so i gave it a go. I'm a 7D (yes very wide) in shoe sizes. I'm often a 38.5 but V5F doesn't make half sizes so i was moved up to a 39. Oh the pain! My toes don't fit widthwise in the toe sheaths. It took 15 minutes of forcing to *make* them fit into the sheaths. (It was the salesperson's idea.) Even then, the fourth toe didn't fill up the full length of the sheath leaving it horrifically baggy and causing excruciating pain between the 3rd and 4th toe. I imagine that people with an exceptionally long 2nd toe might have a similar problem. I'm passing on these shoes, but i'm glad you wrote a review about them! I just wanted to add my 2cents.
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macherry
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Mar 26, 2008, 8:38 AM
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my first reaction to seeing these shoes (a while back), I thought lame-o.
Kim, you've almost changed my mind to thinking, "i''d almost try a pair'. i think what would drive me crazy is the separation of toes, much like the individual toe socks i once wore.............yeah i was a kid in the 70's.
thanks for you review kim
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Valarc
Mar 31, 2008, 9:05 AM
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I just picked up a pair of these things at Abbadabba's in Atlanta. Very very cool. I really like the way you can feel the irregularities in the ground. I notice things like cracks in a sidewalk a lot more when wearing them.
A little update - the lines listed on the vibram five fingers website are out of date. They have discontinued the "surge" (a neoprene water shoe version) and replaced it with the "flow" (a lower-ankled neoprene water shoe).
The classic and sprint lines are still pretty much the same.
The REALLY cool addition, though, is the "KSO" (keep stuff out), which is like the sprint, only with the top of the foot enclosed by a mesh material. It still breathes well, but keeps crap out of the shoe and also keeps your foot a bit warmer if the weather is chilly. This is the version I bought, and I love them.
I tried on the classic, and didn't like the way the drawstring closure system dug into my foot. The velcro closure on the sprint, flow, and kso felt way better.
I really wish they made half sizes.
EDIT: I should note that the fit is far from perfect. My big toe fits great, the next one over is pretty good, and down on the line it gets looser up until the pinky toe which is ridiculously loose. That said, once I got used to the looseness, it doesn't really bother me at all. I still have a wide range of motion and can feel it working the muscles in my lower legs.
(This post was edited by Valarc on Mar 31, 2008, 9:08 AM)
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ryan00013
May 4, 2008, 7:46 AM
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As everyone says, be careful when fitting. If you get the right size, it should fit perfectly, and COMFORTABLY like a glove. They do on my feet anyways.
I've owned my five fingers (sprint version) for about a year now. They've been through a lot. I have used them as approach shoes, even on grade 3 and 4 scrambling (with MUCH care where I step) and bouldered in them a bit. It's basically like being barefoot with protection from the sharp and pointies. Mind you, sharp rocks still hurt to step on, they just don't cut your foot in the process. If you do use them for hard approaches, be prepared to have sore feet.
They aren't for everyone, but if you like being barefoot, you'll love them. You can even bend your toes individually. If you're holding the shoes in your hand, you can bend them in half with your thumb and one finger. They truly conform to your foot without restricting movement at all.
Being waterproof is a huge plus. I always keep them in my climbing bag and actually used them to walk across a river last trip.
Another plus is being barefoot or wearing these often, will strengthen up your feet over time. I wear them running too.
They can be thrown in the washer with no fear of them falling apart. My shoes show very minimal wear after a year of moderate use and 3 wash cycles. (DO NOT put in the dryer btw.)
*Side note - Cactus spines will easily pierce the thin rubber. Ouch! I still love them though.
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