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c_plante


Oct 1, 2001, 5:13 PM
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Climbing Manners, Do's and Dont's  (North_America: United_States: Wyoming: Western_Wy_: Upper_Bridge_Bands: Hideout_Wall)
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Judging from the posts to my chalk question and thanks for your answers btw, what are the "unspoken" rules when climbing? I'm new at this and I hang with others who are relatively new at this, so we're not getting indoctrinated into the rules of the rock so to speak. So here's your chance to say something.


krillen


Oct 1, 2001, 5:55 PM
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Rule #1: Common Courtesy!!!

Give people their space.

Try to be friendly.

Leave the crag as you found it.

Don't walk under lines unless NECESSARY, then at least warn the belayer/or ask permission.

Don't leave TR's up on climbs all day long, only have them up when using them.

hope these help!


marcsv


Oct 1, 2001, 8:36 PM
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take nothing but memories, leave nothing but footprints.


c_plante


Oct 2, 2001, 12:39 AM
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Well that's somewhat poetic.
What about right of way? Is it the first person on the rock, or the first person setup? Do you allow other climbers to claim a section for themselves out of politeness, or do you say something like "share the rock dude"?


downshift


Oct 2, 2001, 6:31 AM
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Ussually it's the first person at the rock has the "right of way". And be cautious it rude to crowd or make noises when someone is on the rock, you may break there concentration / groove. But to be polite you shouldn't hog a route if people are waiting or wanting to try it. Let them climb while you break, who knows you may gain some insight with other climbers.


jds100


Oct 2, 2001, 9:08 AM
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If you have specific questions it would help sort of guide the topic; for me, there is so much that is ingrained now that I don't always think about on a conscious level.

I would say that double-checking your own and your partner's knots, biners, belay device, and harness are "rules" to establish for yourself. If you're rapping or TRing, always yell "Rope" and wait for a response, before throwing down the lines. Be careful about loose stuff on top and on the climb, and YELL "Rock" if anything falls. Be attentive as a belayer; don't converse with other people, and don't bring anything that's going to be a distraction (wandering dog, for example). Make a routine of your procedures for putting on your harness and tieing in; for checking each other before the climb and communicating readiness to begin; for communicating at a rest and at the end of a climb before taking the climber off belay; routinize these aspects of the activity, so that the 'weird' feeling that comes up if the routine is broken provides the signal that you need to re-check what you did.

Learn about the area where you climb; know the history and current state of access issues. Follow the rules of any jurisdiction over the climbing areas, and respect the standards of a given area. Guerilla climbing can end up hurting everyone. Contribute what you can to local advocacy efforts, time and/or money.

Don't chip rock. Avoid using wire brushes to clean rock; use softer bristles that don't 'sand' away at the rock. Don't hurl beta at someone on a climb or problem; wait for them to ask for help so you don't ruin an onsight. Don't step on rope, and try to keep your gear and rope as organized and compact as possible (out of other's way). If you set up a cheater stone stack, break it back down when you're done. Leave the area cleaner than when you got there.

Just some thoughts.


c_plante


Oct 2, 2001, 10:59 PM
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Learn about the area where you climb; know the history and current state of access issues.

Where do you find that out?


darkside


Oct 4, 2001, 12:10 AM
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Where a leader and a top-roper find routes converge/cross or someone rappelling comes across a leader, the leader HAS to take priority. His consequences are potentially more dire.
To learn more of an area, talk to the locals. Respect local concencus. When it comes to access matters an ounce of prevention is worth a ton of correction, so climb safe, be discreet and courteous, pack it in- pack it out.
If there are problems with access in southern Ontario contact the ACCess Committee. Different areas are assigned to a portfolio manager such as myself. For contact info you could E me or check out the ACCess page on www.climbers.org
We have a clean up planned in November if you wish to get involved. Contact me or see the post on the Hamilton Ice Ban in the ice/mountaineering forum.


c_plante


Oct 4, 2001, 2:16 AM
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Here's a question, in my internet travels I've been noticing posts at places like rattlesnake that you should get climbing permits to climb. Am I supposed to get a permit for every rock I climb? Or is that just for established "group climb" type of places, that run schools and courses and what-not.


darkside


Oct 4, 2001, 9:48 AM
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Conservation Halton only allow groups and teaching at Rattlesnake Point. These groups require permits. Individuals don't require such permits and may climb at other areas such as Kelso, Buffalo, and Nemo although entry or parking fees might apply. In addition there are passes available allowing unlimited entry to a number of conservation areas without the entry fees. I'm not sure what size CH consider to be a group but rest assured that you and two or three buddies can climb as individuals. Please note that one of CH's environmental concerns is the condition of the ancient Eastern White Cedars on the escarpment. Size of a tree is no indication of age and some are hundreds evn thousands of years old. Slinging of trees and rapping/pulling the rope can create a lot of damage even if only pulled once. I would recommend that if you top rope, you take some strips of carpet or a couple of old towels to pad the trees. For descents, use proper rap stations, descent routes, or set a temporary rap station with slings, padding, and thread the rope through a couple of 'biners. This can then be collected at the end of the day. Following the above will help maintain access as will politely informing newcomers when you come across situations where they may be unaware of the damage they may causing.

Oh! also climb safe....and have fun.


talons05


Oct 4, 2001, 10:00 AM
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Hey man, if you're looking for some basic, "unspoken" rules, there's a ton of them. Here's a few of the important ones:

1. Respect - respect to other climbers and to the climbing area.

2. Don't brag and don't lie about how hard you climb. Don't be ashamed to let people know that you are still working on that 5.9

3. NEVER take someone elses gear left on a route.

4. Don't get caught up in ratings, just enjoy climbing for what it is, a challenge.

AW


darkside


Oct 4, 2001, 10:13 AM
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Working a 5.9!!!....I got my ass kicked on a 5.5 a couple of years ago! Can anyone beat that?

p.s. the highest I've climbed is 5.12 and I did one of those just days before getting my ass kicked on the 5.5....doh!


paulc


Oct 4, 2001, 10:28 AM
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Hey Dark;

did you get into an OW or a rattley crack? Kinda curious.

Anyhow rules depend if you are outdoor or indoor. Outdoor I would never boulder under a climber, but indoor there isn't the same amount of room so as long as I think that they are not going to fall on me then I boulder away.

The main thing is the respect. Don't knock someone for climbing lower grades than you, don't dis the environment that ain't cool. Don't hog routes, even if you are working them, other people may want in.

One thing that really annoys me is people getting over their heads on multipitch trad routes. If you want to flail on a single pitch routes (5.7 or 5.13) that is fine if there is other stuff to climb, but if you are flailing on a multipitch route and holding other people up then you should work on your climbing on single pitch routes. A multi is no place to get over your head and it is more than frustrating to have to wait for people to bumble their way up a route that they shouldn't have been on in the first place.

Paul


k2exp2010


Oct 4, 2001, 1:03 PM
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don't spit on your cleaner ...

don't trash the site. clean up after yourself.
don't chalk up the routes either.
don't step on anyone else's rope.


c_plante


Oct 4, 2001, 2:05 PM
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we should condense this all into a book or pdf or something, call it "the written unwritten rulebook of climbing"


paulc


Oct 4, 2001, 2:07 PM
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Wouldn't that be self defeating, a writen, un-writen guide book?


camhead


Oct 4, 2001, 2:51 PM
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as for etiquete (sorry, probably spelled that wrong), what about dogs? I really hate it when someone brings a dog to the crag and it won't leave you alone, walks on your rope, barks, etc.
On a different topic, does anyone else ever take their dogs rapelling?


jds100


Oct 4, 2001, 4:45 PM
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The standards and traditions of an area can be discerned from talking with a variety of climbers at climbing spots in the area, and probably from folks working in outdoor and gear shops that serve the area. If there is a guidebook (or more than one), read that; usually there are chapters, or extensive sections on the topic, and bits thrown in on route descriptions, too.

It's probably safe to say that some things are practically universal: don't chip; don't chop; don't add bolts without consesus; don't trespass; know where to park and where not to; don't say you "climbed" something if you rested on the rope or TRd a lead route (just say you climbed it with 2 rests, or that you did it on TR); respect people and the place. Use good sense, and err to the conservative side.

[ This Message was edited by: jds100 on 2001-10-04 16:49 ]


trillium


Oct 4, 2001, 6:22 PM
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I don't mind dogs at climbing sites, I just wish that their owners would pick up the dog mess.


c_plante


Oct 4, 2001, 10:52 PM
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I can never get my dog to stay still for more than a minute, I doubt he'd like the harness at all. Besides shouldn't we be climbing and not the dogs?


darkside


Oct 5, 2001, 11:36 PM
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Paulc

OOPS! it was a multi-pitch but we were about the only ones on the cliff(by this time). We started in warm sun and a storm blew in, although I was fully capable of climbing it, I ended up hauling my own bodyweight in bricks in my pants. Something about the huge temperature drop, clouds and rain too thick to see my belayer, and little probability of rescue if we had problems. Actually the climb was pretty nice and after the storm passed(as we topped out) the weather was nice too.
I know what you mean about line ups on climbs though, I had that on a Squamish classic(Diedre) the first time I was there. Two parties ahead were three people on one rope.


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