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nicodeemus


Jun 5, 2007, 4:35 PM
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route longer than rope
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Is there anyway to get up a route that is longer than the half way mark on your rope? My climbing partner and I would like to do some 35M routes, but our ropes are only 60M long. Is there anyway to tie the 2 together and still be able to belay properly? I know the Fisherman's knot well, but how do you work it with your ATC?


(This post was edited by nicodeemus on Jun 5, 2007, 4:38 PM)


anykineclimb


Jun 5, 2007, 4:37 PM
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Re: [nicodeemus] route longer than rope [In reply to]
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30m rope?? kinda short huh?

get a standard 60 or 70 meter rope


ja1484


Jun 5, 2007, 4:38 PM
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Re: [nicodeemus] route longer than rope [In reply to]
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Nope. Never been done.

If you figure out a way to climb a route longer than the middle mark of the rope, let us know.

Those guys that climb El Cap? They just have really long ropes. You wouldn't believe the rope drag though.


nicodeemus


Jun 5, 2007, 4:39 PM
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Re: [anykineclimb] route longer than rope [In reply to]
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Sorry, my bad. The ropes are 60M long. I was thinking about the half way marks.


snowey


Jun 5, 2007, 4:39 PM
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Re: [ja1484] route longer than rope [In reply to]
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be nice assholes. this post is in the beginners forum.


nuts_bolts


Jun 5, 2007, 4:40 PM
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Re: [nicodeemus] route longer than rope [In reply to]
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nicodeemus wrote:
Is there anyway to get up a route that is longer than the half way mark on your rope? My climbing partner and I would like to do some 35M routes, but our ropes are only 60M long. Is there anyway to tie the 2 together and still be able to belay properly? I know the Fisherman's knot well, but how do you work it with your ATC?

No, don't tie two ropes together. Get a rope of proper length.

Edit: Oh damn, too late.

Are these routes you're taking about the first pitch of a multipitch climb? Also, could you just walk off the top?


(This post was edited by nuts_bolts on Jun 5, 2007, 4:44 PM)


nicodeemus


Jun 5, 2007, 4:43 PM
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Re: [nuts_bolts] route longer than rope [In reply to]
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thanks. That's kinda what I thought. My climbing partner should have bought a longer rope then.


nuts_bolts


Jun 5, 2007, 4:47 PM
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Re: [nicodeemus] route longer than rope [In reply to]
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nicodeemus wrote:
Sorry, my bad. The ropes are 60M long. I was thinking about the half way marks.

nicodeemus wrote:
thanks. That's kinda what I thought. My climbing partner should have bought a longer rope then.

Wait.. what?


time2clmb


Jun 5, 2007, 4:50 PM
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Re: [nicodeemus] route longer than rope [In reply to]
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nicodeemus wrote:
Is there anyway to get up a route that is longer than the half way mark on your rope? My climbing partner and I would like to do some 35M routes, but our ropes are only 60M long. Is there anyway to tie the 2 together and still be able to belay properly? I know the Fisherman's knot well, but how do you work it with your ATC?

Some simple grade one math might help here. If the route is 35 metres and your rope is 60 metres then you have plenty of rope to get to the top of the route. The problem is not getting up the route, the problem is getting down from the route. You or your second will need to drag a second rope with you to the top and then tie the 2 together to rapel off.

I am not giving advice, just trying to give you one example of how it can be done. Do not try this without proper instruction. Alot of people die trying to get off of routes....it's very easy to fuck up. Stay on less than 30 metre routes until you know what you are doing.


time2clmb


Jun 5, 2007, 4:54 PM
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Re: [nuts_bolts] route longer than rope [In reply to]
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nuts_bolts wrote:
nicodeemus wrote:
Is there anyway to get up a route that is longer than the half way mark on your rope? My climbing partner and I would like to do some 35M routes, but our ropes are only 60M long. Is there anyway to tie the 2 together and still be able to belay properly? I know the Fisherman's knot well, but how do you work it with your ATC?

No, don't tie two ropes together. Get a rope of proper length.

WTF...? Is that the same advice you would give if the route was 40 metres long? What about 100 metres? First learn WTF you are talking about before giving advice.


anykineclimb


Jun 5, 2007, 4:55 PM
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Re: [snowey] route longer than rope [In reply to]
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snowey wrote:
be nice assholes. this post is in the beginners forum.

why not contribute to the thread instead of being the self appointed rc.com police?


to the OP, time2climb gave an excellent answer


sbaclimber


Jun 5, 2007, 4:59 PM
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Re: [nicodeemus] route longer than rope [In reply to]
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nicodeemus wrote:
My climbing partner and I would like to do some 35M routes, but our ropes are only 60M long.
I am really fighting the urge to be a smart-ass here......but I will try to be helpful anyway Tongue
After re-reading your posts, I am going to assume that you are in fact planning on toproping....correct?
If you are, then knotting the ropes together with a double fisherman's is the correct thing to do!
Edit....and yes, if you are leading (in which case I am scared that you don't already know the answer to your own question), time2clmb did give the correct answer.

...........okay, I can't resist it anymore........
Why are you worried about the ATC?
You do realise that you do not have to tie into the absolute end of a rope, right!?


(This post was edited by sbaclimber on Jun 5, 2007, 5:09 PM)


nuts_bolts


Jun 5, 2007, 5:03 PM
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Re: [time2clmb] route longer than rope [In reply to]
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time2clmb wrote:
nuts_bolts wrote:
nicodeemus wrote:
Is there anyway to get up a route that is longer than the half way mark on your rope? My climbing partner and I would like to do some 35M routes, but our ropes are only 60M long. Is there anyway to tie the 2 together and still be able to belay properly? I know the Fisherman's knot well, but how do you work it with your ATC?

No, don't tie two ropes together. Get a rope of proper length.

WTF...? Is that the same advice you would give if the route was 40 metres long? What about 100 metres? First learn WTF you are talking about before giving advice.

Whoa, slow down there turbo.

Proper length, as in 50 m minimum, 60 m is common, and 70 m is required on some single pitch routes with only one set of chains where you can't walk off the top.

In case you didn't notice, the OP edited his first post. At first he said he had a 30 m rope.


rymep


Jun 5, 2007, 5:21 PM
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Re: [nuts_bolts] route longer than rope [In reply to]
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If you're leading the climb bring two ropes, one to clip with, and the other just hanging off you. When you get to the top tie them together with a double fishermans knot and rappell down. When you get to the bottom pull the end with the knot so it doesn't get stuck on the chains obviously.

Practice several times on the ground first, you don't want the knot to come out when you're on your way down, it will kill you.

If you're top-roping then get to the top and tie them together on the side you'll belay with. Just make sure the tie-in end is on the ground when you tie them together so you'll be able to lower someone without the knot hitting the draw or whatever you're using and belay them without the knot hitting the belay device your belayer is using.

Again, practice all this on the ground several times.


Partner angry


Jun 5, 2007, 5:37 PM
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Re: [rymep] route longer than rope [In reply to]
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You either need to tie in on a bight so you don't have to pass the knot OR use two belay devices to pass the knot OR use a munter if you know what you're doing.

You've got options. It'll probably do you more good to stew over it than to just be told though. Sorry to be so elusive.


time2clmb


Jun 5, 2007, 7:11 PM
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Re: [nuts_bolts] route longer than rope [In reply to]
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In reply to:
Whoa, slow down there turbo

Okay, that made me laugh...Turbo lol.

I guess it would help if the o.p. mentioned if they were tr'ing or leading. My original answer assumed they were leading. Yeah yeah....assumptions are bad m'kay.


nicodeemus


Jun 5, 2007, 8:30 PM
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Re: [rymep] route longer than rope [In reply to]
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thanks everyone. I guess I should have mentioned that we were planning on top roping the route a couple of times after leading it. Dragging the extra rope up makes sense. I've got it figured out now.


rymep


Jun 5, 2007, 8:56 PM
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Re: [nicodeemus] route longer than rope [In reply to]
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Remember, just hook the rope to your harness like the other way and bring it up that way, it's much less work than packing it on your back and bringing the entire thing up with you.


time2clmb


Jun 5, 2007, 9:17 PM
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What route are you planning on doing this on? I see your from Calgary.


nicodeemus


Jun 6, 2007, 8:42 AM
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We were out at Cougar Canyon 2 weekends ago and I saw a nice route on Cosmology Crag, right... "Cosmic String", but it said it was 32M from the top anchor. We also saw a couple on Catseye Cliff, right "Dead Dog Cafe" and "Tennessee Plates" that were listed as 30M from the top anchor. Is it safe to climb 30M routes with 60M ropes or are you going to come to the end of the rope when you're lowering the lead down?


Partner the_shoe


Jun 6, 2007, 9:03 AM
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Re: [nicodeemus] route longer than rope [In reply to]
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Not safe at all! (to lower that is.0

You are using at least 4 to 6 feet of rope to tie the rope into your leader and to the belayer. Or at least you should be in the habbit of tying into your belayer as well as the leader to avoid running out the last of your rope through the belay device while belaying 30M+ routes.

I have to agree with some of the other posts that this thread is becoming alarming at an increasing rate. Perhaps for your safety it would be wise to slow down a bit and have some one show you the techniquies involved in this process.

As for your question you could rap a 30M route with a 60M rope to the ground. With rope stretch this will be fine. But I would suggest that rapping off of 30M's to a ledge with the potential to fall off would require two ropes to be on the safe side.


Partner j_ung


Jun 6, 2007, 9:05 AM
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nicodeemus wrote:
We were out at Cougar Canyon 2 weekends ago and I saw a nice route on Cosmology Crag, right... "Cosmic String", but it said it was 32M from the top anchor. We also saw a couple on Catseye Cliff, right "Dead Dog Cafe" and "Tennessee Plates" that were listed as 30M from the top anchor. Is it safe to climb 30M routes with 60M ropes or are you going to come to the end of the rope when you're lowering the lead down?

In this case, tie a secure stopper knot in the belayer's end of the rope such that you can't lose it through the belay device. Another option is to have the belayer tie in also. Either way, the belayer might have to boulder up to give the climber slack to get down and untie. Or the climber might have to boulder the last few feet to get down under his own steam. Keep communicating with each other throughout the process.


wings


Jun 6, 2007, 9:06 AM
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Ropes stretch. A 60m rope will usually be fine on a 30m route (also, some companies like Mammut make their ropes slightly longer than the advertised length). Just to be safe, make sure the belayer doesn't allow his end of the rope to feed through the belay device (tie a knot at the end).

- Seyil


Partner j_ung


Jun 6, 2007, 9:06 AM
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Re: [the_shoe] route longer than rope [In reply to]
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the_shoe wrote:
Perhaps for your safety it would be wise to slow down a bit and have some one show you the techniquies involved in this process.

Always a good idea.


markc


Jun 6, 2007, 9:12 AM
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Re: [rymep] route longer than rope [In reply to]
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rymep wrote:
Remember, just hook the rope to your harness like the other way and bring it up that way, it's much less work than packing it on your back and bringing the entire thing up with you.

I'll add on to this. While it creates extra weight for the leader, having her clip the rope to her haul loop gives her more options. If your partner is carrying the second line and can't complete the route, you're looking at more shenanigans to get down. If the route is near the leader's limit, those shenanigans may be worthwhile.

If I wanted to toprope routes that were close to twice the length of my rope, there are a couple things I would consider. First, does the route lend itself to belaying from the top? The leader can top out, rig the anchor, and belay from above. The only time a second rope would come into play would be on the rappel (if necessary).

If you have a 60m rope and want to do a slingshot toprope setup on a 30m route, you have to consider the amount of rope necessary to tie in and tie an adequate stopper knot on the opposite end. The belayer will also have to be close to the base (in most cases). Also, are you sure of the length of your rope?

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