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AZrockclimber1988
Jun 21, 2007, 6:54 AM
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I was wondering what your opinions are on the magic plate devices (BD ATC Guide and Petzl Reverso), to belay a second.
Michael
(This post was edited by AZrockclimber1988 on Jun 21, 2007, 7:13 AM)
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mattltambor
Jun 21, 2007, 8:46 AM
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Magic? I'm guessing you meant Auto-block. They're great if you get to know them. I like my gri-gri for a direct belay bringing up a second but I suppose it is heavier than a tube device - not to mention more expensive. Plus I usually end up bringing both my gri-gri and my ATC up the wall so I don't have to rappel on the gri-gri. So far weight hasn't been an issue but I'm guessing that when it is, I might leave the gri-gri on the ground. Lowering can be a little tricky with the auto-block tube devices but not so much that it's impractical - like I said, you just have to get used to them. Either way, just find something that you're comfortable with and feel safe using and you're good to go.
-Matt
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cantbuymefriends
Jun 21, 2007, 9:35 AM
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AZrockclimber1988 wrote: I was wondering what your opinions are on the magic plate devices (BD ATC Guide and Petzl Reverso), to belay a second. Michael
My suggestion is that you start out with the 100+ posts about ATC Guide/XP and the 70+ posts about Reverso/Reversino in the Gear Reviews section.
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microbarn
Jun 21, 2007, 11:26 AM
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AZrockclimber1988 wrote: I was wondering what your opinions are on the magic plate devices (BD ATC Guide and Petzl Reverso), to belay a second. Michael
I use the B-52. It works well, and I like the convenience. You really have to work some thicker ropes to get them through the device, but this makes me feel even more secure on the thiinner ropes that most people use.
matt had some good things to say. He has a good point about ensuring you are comfortable with what you take out.
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reg
Jun 21, 2007, 11:53 AM
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AZrockclimber1988 wrote: I was wondering what your opinions are on the magic plate devices (BD ATC Guide and Petzl Reverso), to belay a second. Michael
where'd you get that term - "magic plate" ??
this is troll-esk but i'll say this: you should be familiar with common belay techniques - tube devices - before branching into auto blocks or grigri's, etc.
the auto blocks should be backed up with a munter when set up for lowering - sometimes a second will need to reverse ah bit to clean or whatever and you could drop the climber if your not familar with these techniques.
i use the reverso and appreciate the auto block function but don't always use it.
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j_ung
Jun 21, 2007, 12:54 PM
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I use my ATC Guide almost exclusively for pretty much everything. I also loved the B-52 I had before this. I was pretty fond of my Reverso... until I bought the B-52.
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reg
Jun 21, 2007, 1:56 PM
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j_ung wrote: I use my ATC Guide almost exclusively for pretty much everything. I also loved the B-52 I had before this. I was pretty fond of my Reverso... until I bought the B-52.
J_ung: what about it makes it better?
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reg
Jun 21, 2007, 2:37 PM
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mr_rogers wrote: reg wrote: where'd you get that term - "magic plate" ?? One of the first "guide plate" belay devices was the "Plaquette" or "Plaquette Magique" (Magic Plate). [img]http://www.needlesports.com/acatalog/newalpmagicplate.jpg[/img] I'm more curious as to why "autoblock" is used when there's already a knot with that name.
ok - i use to use a stitch plate:
still carry it as a backup. - thanks
edit: - ok - how do you post the image? i tried ".img/img" braketed and the words bracketed - i'm so confused
(This post was edited by reg on Jun 21, 2007, 2:41 PM)
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anykineclimb
Jun 21, 2007, 2:46 PM
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mr_rogers wrote: reg wrote: where'd you get that term - "magic plate" ?? One of the first "guide plate" belay devices was the "Plaquette" or "Plaquette Magique" (Magic Plate). [img]http://www.needlesports.com/acatalog/newalpmagicplate.jpg[/img] I'm more curious as to why "autoblock" is used when there's already a knot with that name.
because they do the same thing?
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cantbuymefriends
Jun 21, 2007, 2:48 PM
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reg wrote: mr_rogers wrote: reg wrote: where'd you get that term - "magic plate" ?? One of the first "guide plate" belay devices was the "Plaquette" or "Plaquette Magique" (Magic Plate). [img]http://www.needlesports.com/acatalog/newalpmagicplate.jpg[/img] I'm more curious as to why "autoblock" is used when there's already a knot with that name. ok - i use to use a stitch plate: still carry it as a backup. - thanks edit: - ok - how do you post the image? i tried ".img/img" braketed and the words bracketed - i'm so confused
I was gonna say "Remove the dot in the first pair of brackets.".
But that won't work for you 'cause RC.com still can't (hopefully!!!) access your hard-drive.
(I.e. you need to upload the pic to RC.com photo archive, photobucket.com or something similar, or find an already existing photo on internet to link to.)
Edit for spelling, and to express my surprise that neither the dot in the first image-bracket nor the picture show up...?
(This post was edited by cantbuymefriends on Jun 21, 2007, 2:51 PM)
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j_ung
Jun 21, 2007, 2:50 PM
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reg wrote: j_ung wrote: I use my ATC Guide almost exclusively for pretty much everything. I also loved the B-52 I had before this. I was pretty fond of my Reverso... until I bought the B-52. J_ung: what about it makes it better?
I had always been cautious about using the Reverso, a pretty low-friction device, with thin ropes and after a while I started to worry a bit about catching any hard fall, even with a thick cord. I had gotten used to how it locks up a little when feeding rope quickly.
Then I bought a B-52, and WOW. Feeding rope was like an entirely different activity. I loved it.
About six months later I began to worry a bit when the top end of my B-52 started getting thinner and thinner. I bought a new one and, all of a sudden, I was having trouble pulling rope through it while belaying top ropes. It might have been it's anodization, which was different from the last one I had. I decided to replace it right about the same time the ATC Guide hit the shelves, so I gave it a whirl. I was happily surprised that it seemed to do pretty much everything well.
None of them are as easy to release in autoblock mode as they might have us believe, but the Guide seems to be the easiest. It also has a few neat little tricks it does, like its Gri-gri imitation for TR belays, and the choice between notched and un-notched sides.
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summerprophet
Jun 21, 2007, 2:51 PM
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I am pretty happy with my BD ATC guide.
PROS
Good Rap device for Thick and thin ropes. Stable feel even when rapping a 10.5 paired with an 8.5.
Can easilly simul-belay two climbers in autoblock mode.
Not much heavier than typical belay bevice.
Can still belay direct from the harness (non-autoblock)
CONS
Difficult to simul-belay on older or thicker ropes (10.2 would be my recommended max)
Autoblock setup works best if you can build an anchor node point at shoulder height or higher.
Have to swap from autoblock to regular if swapping leads.
I like mine, and would buy it again if I needed to.
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cantbuymefriends
Jun 21, 2007, 2:55 PM
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j_ung wrote: ... About six months later I began to worry a bit when the top end of my B-52 started getting thinner and thinner. I bought a new one and, all of a sudden, I was having trouble pulling rope through it while belaying top ropes. It might have been it's anodization, which was different from the last one I had. I decided to replace it right about the same time the ATC Guide hit the shelves, so I gave it a whirl. I was happily surprised that it seemed to do pretty much everything well. ...
Strange, cause I have just the same problem, pulling through rope when belaying from above in auto-block mode, with my new ATC Guide...?
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j_ung
Jun 21, 2007, 3:01 PM
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Huh. Can't say I have any trouble with it. Do you use a thick rope, perhaps?
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paulraphael
Jun 21, 2007, 4:35 PM
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I love the design and simplicity and weight of the B-52, but was never sold on its performance. I found that while rapelling with medium ropes it offered barely enough friction, and with skinny half ropes not nearly enough. This is unfortunate, because Trango's technical information suggests that the device creates MORE friction with skinny ropes (now THAT would be a magic plate ...)
So I've switched to the ATC guide and love it. It's smoother and more predictable, works brilliantly with 10mm singles and 8.1 doubles, and autoblocks effortlessly. Only downsides are weight (massive!) and design (ugly!). if someone could combine the performance of the guide with the sleek design of the B52, I'd love them forever.
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anykineclimb
Jun 21, 2007, 4:40 PM
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I bought the reverso a couple years abck and wasn't too impressed with it. namely, the friction sucked. I had a death grip on the rope on long rappels adn after decided to get rid of it. I guess its been improved upon since but I prefer the B52 and just bought my 3rd one.
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paulraphael
Jun 21, 2007, 4:45 PM
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I'm curious to know from people who like the B52 how much you weigh. I weigh about 190 lbs and find the friction lacking (and the Reverso hopeless). Maybe the B52 is ideal for lighter climbers.
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paulraphael
Jun 21, 2007, 4:48 PM
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Has anyone used the Mammut Matrix? looks like a cool device but I've never seen a review.
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anykineclimb
Jun 21, 2007, 5:37 PM
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Paul, I've been pretty intruiged by the Matrix. I'd like to try one out.
As for your other question, I weigh about 170. I've belayed partners about your size with little trouble
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mr_rogers
Jun 22, 2007, 9:21 PM
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mr_rogers wrote: I'm more curious as to why "autoblock" is used when there's already a knot with that name.
anykineclimb wrote: because they do the same thing?
You can rap and belay two seconds with an autoblock knot? You'll have to show me that! I've only been using it as a friction knot.
If I'd known it was so versatile....
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majid_sabet
Jun 22, 2007, 10:28 PM
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Go to Home Depot and ask them to cut you one large and one small chain link
use that instead and does THE SAME EXACT THING for $1
[URL=http://imageshack.us]
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paulraphael
Jun 24, 2007, 2:32 AM
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Why would anyone pay $1 for that? You can rig a perfectly good autoblock for nearly free with a length of iron pipe, a hockey puck, an old broom handle, and some used brake cable from a bike.
majid_sabet wrote: Go to Home Depot and ask them to cut you one large and one small chain link use that instead and does THE SAME EXACT THING for $1 [URL=http://imageshack.us][IMG]http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/2420/istockphoto897579chainlmh9.jpg[/IMG] |
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anykineclimb
Jun 24, 2007, 4:18 AM
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mr_rogers wrote: mr_rogers wrote: I'm more curious as to why "autoblock" is used when there's already a knot with that name. anykineclimb wrote: because they do the same thing? You can rap and belay two seconds with an autoblock knot? You'll have to show me that! I've only been using it as a friction knot. If I'd known it was so versatile....
they both do the same thingin that they allow movement of the rope in one direction while preventing movement in the other.
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notch
Jun 24, 2007, 8:26 PM
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paulraphael wrote: Why would anyone pay $1 for that? You can rig a perfectly good autoblock for nearly free with a length of iron pipe, a hockey puck, an old broom handle, and some used brake cable from a bike. majid_sabet wrote: Go to Home Depot and ask them to cut you one large and one small chain link use that instead and does THE SAME EXACT THING for $1 [URL=http://imageshack.us][IMG]http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/2420/istockphoto897579chainlmh9.jpg[/IMG]
TROPHY
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