Would "hang dog / project" do the trick, or do you feel you need both? (Actually, I have some hang-dogs that I don't consider projects, so perhaps I'm already answering that question.)

Also, I normally think of a project as a route or problem that has not been clean climberd yet, by anyone. Could this cause some confusion?

A work-around may be to use the bookmark functionality to keep track of projects. You can create a new folder for "personal projects" or something.

DDT

....falling off a climb isn't an ascent; why dogging is one of the options is....well, anyway.

If you are going to put an option of ascent type IN the Ascent log....May I suggest the heading "DIDN'T?"

Thank you.

I understand that ethic exists in some new school groups.... A shame, though. The younger, newer blood is supposed to be working harder than previous generations. Better gear, inspiration culled from those who came before....There are a lot of people climbing harder; just look at bouldering as an example. Or people freeing old aid routes. That is New School to me.

Whoever came up with this idea that you "climbed" or "did" a route that you fell on? It's not true - You fell up a route, you didn't climb it.

I understand that ethic exists in some new school groups.... A shame, though. The younger, newer blood is supposed to be working harder than previous generations. Better gear, inspiration culled from those who came before....There are a lot of people climbing harder; just look at bouldering as an example. Or people freeing old aid routes. That is New School to me.

Whoever came up with this idea that you "climbed" or "did" a route that you fell on? It's not true - You fell up a route, you didn't climb it.

hahahahaha!!! that is some funny shit, happie. Too bad you've been drinking the kool aid of the crusty old guys, those outdated notions will only serve to hold you back.

The people you point to freeing old aid routes are the ones working and falling up routes. Many of them have strong sport climbing backgrounds. Sonnie Trotter, Tommy Caldwell, Beth Rodden, Hubers, Honnold, etc. All .14 sport climbers.

While they were working all those routes, do you think they onsighted everything? nonsense. they've probably dogged and worked cruxes on routes hundreds of times.

You should also take care in imposing stylistic judgments on others. For instance, I don't consider that I've really climbed a route unless I've lead it. Oh no, did I just invalidate like 80% of the climbs you've done?

And technically, you've still done a route you fell on, you just aided it. A0.

Oh yeah, and bouldering is lame.

hahahahaha!!! that is some funny shit, happie. Too bad you've been drinking the kool aid of the crusty old guys, those outdated notions will only serve to hold you back.

The people you point to freeing old aid routes are the ones working and falling up routes. Many of them have strong sport climbing backgrounds. Sonnie Trotter, Tommy Caldwell, Beth Rodden, Hubers, Honnold, etc. All .14 sport climbers.

While they were working all those routes, do you think they onsighted everything? nonsense. they've probably dogged and worked cruxes on routes hundreds of times.

You should also take care in imposing stylistic judgments on others. For instance, I don't consider that I've really climbed a route unless I've lead it. Oh no, did I just invalidate like 80% of the climbs you've done?

And technically, you've still done a route you fell on, you just aided it. A0.

Oh yeah, and bouldering is lame.

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that Trotter was 'just' a sport climber. Rather, my intent was to show that lots of the elite level climbers who are out there doing amazing things, have used the practices happiegrrl derides to get stronger and develop technique.

I just think it's funny, because it's my personal belief that rigid notions of style are regressive, and ultimately hold people back and prevent them from reaching their potential. Take the new guy, Alex Honnold. He's what, 23, 24? Soloed Astroman and the Rostrum in a day, and freed the Salathe? He's from around here, and had a couple good mentors who showed him the ropes early on, and didn't burden him with notions the likes of which happiegrrl espouses. Experienced all around climbers, good guys, who climb sport and trad, do FAs, and actually know what's up. And he has gotten freakishly good.

Case in point, I don't include Heart & Sole(JTree, 5.10) - the only 5.10 I have ever even been on - because my foot skated and, though I caught myself in an instant, and my partner insisted he hadn't felt a thing on the rope, I knew that the rope had saved me just enough to allow that fraction of a second for me to regain friction.

happie - you have your own standards that you hold yourself to that it seems that not many others would. For example - If I made a dynamic move, caught the hold but my feet totally cut then sent the rest of the route....damn right I would say I did the route clean! I didn't fall, did I?

I also wonder why you didn't go back to redpoint that route if you had been so close to sending it? But perhaps you don't beleive in redpointing? Will you never climb a route twice?

I will agree with people inflating their climbing abilities. But also understand that you have to be specific when you ask what a person climbs. Usually with trad climbing I will give an approx onsight level, with sport an approx redpoint level. I will state onsight or redpoint, but I think many divide sport and trad like this.

As far as listing what you've climbed and including "hangdog", I do it in my climbing journal all the time. It is usually followed by comments such as "will try to redpoint next week" or "stupid contrived climb, only finished to retrive gear". Who cares what someone else puts in their climbing log?

Great points...

It sounds like happie is doing some risk-management, but if you want to progress into harder climbs you have to risk getting both your hide as well as your ego stomped. To summarily dismiss people climbing harder than herself as having bad style does a disservice to their hard work and sounds like a justification for not pushing herself harder. I've been guilty of placing the apple out of my own reach before, and I only regret those instances where I didn't got on a climb (especially safe sport routes) because I didn't feel like a 5.XX climber. Yes, I wasn't at that level of climbing, but not getting on those climbs is only a self-fulfilling prophesy of failure at that grade. I think most climbers who have more than a few years' experience understand how important it is to honestly represent their climbing level. That said, it doesn't have to be all about pushing the grade, and coming home in one piece definitely has its merits, so I won't fault anybody for climbing what they will (whether that's the 5.5 n00b testpiece or a 5.12+ solo).

C/Side - Do you think Sonnie Trotter, et al report a route/pitch as climbed before they have done it clean from bottom to the top?

As for invalidating any of the climbs I've done - WTF do you think I am arguing this point? None of the routes listed in my rc.com database have any falls on them. If I listed routes I had fallen on, I'd have many more on the list.

Case in point, I don't include Heart & Sole(JTree, 5.10) - the only 5.10 I have ever even been on - because my foot skated and, though I caught myself in an instant, and my partner insisted he hadn't felt a thing on the rope, I knew that the rope had saved me just enough to allow that fraction of a second for me to regain friction.

I also differentiate between having led a climb or followed it.

You know - I post a lot for partners when I am traveling or even at the Gunks and so I often climb with people I don't know. It's easy enough to vet a partner's experience, and I do. I don't have interest in belaying someone who claims they lead 5.9 at the Gunks if they are going to piss their pants, fall and hang on gear, and cry "Take!" every other move.

Those sorts of people are dangerous. They take out new climbers who haven;t yet learned how to take self-responsibility and they get in trouble. THAT is a spiritual crime, and I am deadly serious on this count.

These people spray at how hard they go, claiming ascents on famous test pieces, blah, blah, blah.... The newbie has maybe heard these routes bantered about an is impressed, falsely believing they can trust this person to mentor them and take them out for a safe day at the cliffs.

This is fucking BULLSHIT and accepting dogged/shit-pants routes as "ascents" is IRRESPONSIBLE on our community's part.

Make light of it if you want; you surely have seen the damage first hand by now, of a person who had convinced themselves they could climb harder than they can.... How on earth you can have seen a helmet full of blood, or a leg bone sticking out at a 45 degree angle with the foot attached only by a slip of skin(thank god for skin!), and still think it is "okay" to tacitly accept this lying is beyond my comprehension. But so be it.

Advise to the new climber: When you are going out for a day with someone, ask them what routes they have done. Frame the question as "Can you tell me which routes at (the particular crag) and/or others (at whatever destinations) you have led? (Not "done"). were these clean ascents, onsight?

ANY competant leader will not be offended at those questions, and will provide you with the information. If they are vague in their reply(Oh, dozens of routes....") - better to take the day and walk the cliff with a guidebook, familiarizing yourself with the routes, or bring some gear and practice placements or making anchors from the safety of the ground.

"Project" needs to be added to the ascent type list. I like to keep track of my projects, but right now the only way i can is to put them under hang dog. Also the majority of people would rather call a route a project than a hang dog ascent. Plus when I'm putting up boulder projects, 'hang dog' doesn't make to much sense.

They mean practically the same thing, i personally like the term a little more, and project adds the "I'm going to top this out" attitude that most people need. I think its a good thing to consider.

....falling off a climb isn't an ascent; why dogging is one of the options is....well, anyway. Projects that have not yet seen a first ascent are not someone's for the listing, either, until someone sends them.

What is that "Hit List" thing? I clicked on it on my profile, but it says there's nothing in there. i was assuming that would be a place where someone could put routes they "hoped" to send. If so 0 that seems a legitimate place for the routes someone fell off but still wants to have note of.

If you are going to put an option of ascent type IN the Ascent log....May I suggest the heading "DIDN'T?"

Thank you.