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knieveltech
Aug 15, 2007, 1:49 PM
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Peter Absolon (47), was killed by rockfall on Saturday, August 11, while climbing with friend and fellow NOLS instructor, Steve Herlihy in Wyoming's Wind River Range.
Full article:
http://www.alpinist.com/...bsolon-dead-rockfall
My deepest sympathies to friends and family members.
(This post was edited by knieveltech on Aug 15, 2007, 1:50 PM)
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reg
Aug 15, 2007, 1:58 PM
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oh my - that is horrible - my thoughts and hopes for strenght go out to Molly and Avery.
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overlord
Aug 15, 2007, 2:21 PM
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condolences to the friends and family. and a really unnecessary death.
on the other hand, what kind of idiot pushes a rock down a cliff without knowing that theres nobody down there for it to hit? i mean, how retarted can you be? even if it wasnt a climber up a route, someone could have been at the base of the wall or whatever. you should never, ever, intentionally dislodge rocks over a cliffs edge without checking for humans in the area beforehand. you never know who you might hit.
i dont know about US hiking/mountaneering tradition, but here, when you first start to hike, every decent mentor (parents, friends, etc.) drills into you never to throw rocks if you cant see what you might hit. and, especially, never to trow rocks from higher ground if they fly towards a place where other ppl might be.
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gblauer
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Aug 15, 2007, 2:21 PM
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My condolences to his family and friends.
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the_climber
Aug 15, 2007, 2:21 PM
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This is tragic. My deepest sympathys to his family, climbing partner and friends.
Hats off to those who took on the difficult job of bringing him home to his family.
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markc
Aug 15, 2007, 2:27 PM
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This is tragic. My deepest condolences to friends and family.
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geezergecko
Aug 15, 2007, 3:10 PM
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overlord wrote: ...every decent mentor (parents, friends, etc.) drills into you never to throw rocks if you cant see what you might hit. and, especially, never to trow rocks from higher ground if they fly towards a place where other ppl might be.
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mikitta
Aug 15, 2007, 3:38 PM
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My condolences. My prayers and thoughts go with their families and friends.
God Bless,
mik
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skinner
Aug 17, 2007, 4:58 AM
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I'm dumbfounded - angry.
My sincere condolences to the friends and family of Peter Absolon.
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josephgdawson
Aug 17, 2007, 5:39 AM
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I would not be surprised if the trundler is charged for that act.
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stymingersfink
Aug 17, 2007, 11:29 PM
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josephgdawson wrote: I would not be surprised if the trundler is charged for that act.
Clip him to the spot his victim was, then allow the injured parties to trundle the whole fucking mountain down on him one small rock at a time.
Too bad Common Sense cannot be legislated.
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clausti
Aug 18, 2007, 1:00 AM
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involuntary manslaughter, i would think.
absolutely horrible. my sincerest condolences to his family and friends.
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the_peak_bagger
Aug 18, 2007, 3:17 AM
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My condolences to Peter's family.
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knieveltech
Aug 18, 2007, 4:49 AM
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clausti wrote: involuntary manslaughter, i would think. absolutely horrible. my sincerest condolences to his family and friends.
I was wondering how long it would take for someone to play this card, a similar thread is running on Supertopo. I understand the sentiment behind statements like that and deeply empathise with the anguish family and friends must be going through, however I don't believe our legal system has anything to offer. It definitely can't bring the fallen back, or offer any kind of real closure. Simply put it was an accident. A second's lapse of judgement, the kind of brain fart that 9999 times out of 10000 skates by harmlessly. Make no mistake, I believe this is a tragedy of the highest order, made all the more so by the element of horrific irony. It's been made clear that there was no malice in the act, the guy simply didn't know anyone was down there and trundled. If the rock in question had gone over the edge five feet in either direction, or when the climbers where on a different section of the route, or any of a number of variables lined up differently, the outcome would have likely have been substantially different. I don't know, I just can't help putting myself in the unnamed hiker's shoes on this one, poor bastard. Regardless of what else comes of this he gets to shuffle around for the rest of his life with the weight of a human life on his shoulders, a burden I definitely don't envy. I know this is likely at best cold comfort, but what else is there in a situation like this?
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climbsomething
Aug 18, 2007, 5:36 AM
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knieveltech wrote: Simply put it was an accident.
I'm not surprised he didn't think hucking rocks could be so dangerous, but that doesn't change the outcome and it doesn't absolve him unless his lawyer wins the "recklessness" argument. I'm sorry he had to learn the hard way that throwing rocks at an outdoor recreation area can have such a devastating effect. And of course he's sorry- he's human and presumably not a sociopath.
This case needs to serve as an educational opportunity that trundling is deadly. Clearly, the non-climbing public isn't aware of that. Part and parcel of that is appropriate punishment for the trundler. He doesn't deserve the chair, but something commensurate with the level of the offense.
Sorry, this makes me angry. Edited to not sound totally unhinged.
(This post was edited by climbsomething on Aug 18, 2007, 6:08 AM)
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knieveltech
Aug 18, 2007, 12:15 PM
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climbsomething wrote: knieveltech wrote: Simply put it was an accident. Whatever. Stumbling and dislodging a rock is an accident. Picking one up and hurling it may not typically be done with malice, as apparently was the case here, but he did it anyway; It wasn't intentional or malicious but it was, in my opinion, reckless (hence involuntary manslaughter). I'm not surprised he didn't think hucking rocks could be so dangerous, but that doesn't change the outcome and it doesn't absolve him unless his lawyer wins the "recklessness" argument. I'm sorry he had to learn the hard way that throwing rocks at an outdoor recreation area can have such a devastating effect. And of course he's sorry- he's human and presumably not a sociopath. This case needs to serve as an educational opportunity that trundling is deadly. Clearly, the non-climbing public isn't aware of that. Part and parcel of that is appropriate punishment for the trundler. He doesn't deserve the chair, but something commensurate with the level of the offense. Sorry, this makes me angry. Edited to not sound totally unhinged.
Your anger is totally justified. I could not agree more that an educational initiative of some kind or another is desperately needed.All I'm saying is I don't agree with crucifying some poor SOB so there's a poster child for this kind of issue. Many of us have local areas where "day hikers" throwing rocks is a real and present danger. Should something unfortunate like this ever befall me I can only hope that my friends and loved ones would ultimately side with forgiveness.
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tradmanclimbs
Aug 18, 2007, 12:54 PM
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Clearly prosicuting the trundeler does not bring the victim back to life but it would set a president to let him go unprosicuted. You can throw rocks at climbers , kill them and get away with it. As climbing community we need this guy to be prosicuted. our lives depend on it!
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crankyclimber
Aug 18, 2007, 5:06 PM
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It is manslaughter, according to my sister the lawyer.
Killing somebody should not go unpunished. He will be punished by his conscience but needs confinement as well. Perhaps he could devote his life to educating hikers on the consequences of tossing rocks near climbers.
I
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dalguard
Aug 19, 2007, 2:05 PM
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knieveltech , you're a good guy. May you always be shown the kind of forgiveness you're advocating.
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dingus
Aug 19, 2007, 2:17 PM
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There was a case, jeez, maybe 10 years ago? I tried googling it but couldn't find it. Some dude trundled off the top of a Montana peak and got someone killed. Slunk away as I recall, but someone saw them and they were identified?
I recall that person was prosecuted and I think found guilty of involuntary manslaughter. I'm abit hazy on that but my main point is this...
who of you knows/remembers that incident and why will this one have a lasting impression whereas that one apparently did not?
Piton Ron said it best with - 'the court will duly slap his wrist so the family can sue for damages'
The trundler didn't run away. He called for help. That he stuck around says a lot about his character. Just keep that in mind.
Cheers
DMT
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granite_grrl
Aug 20, 2007, 5:16 PM
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Dingus is right, the trundler stuck around...that really does say a lot.
I don't want to see the trundler lynched, but it would be nice to see something out of the this pointless accident. The local cliffs here get a lot of people walking along the top. Subsequently they also have a lot of people throwing down rock onto climbers below. They say it will risk access and they will fine climbers found to be slinging old growth cedars at the top of the cliffs....why aren't hikers ever fined? Fine 'em for tossing rocks from the top, fine them for pissing off the cliff, fine them for hanging onto the same cedars to get closer to the edge (wearing down their bark by doing so).
People need to be made aware about sharing spaces with other user groups, like climbers. Then the lesson needs to be drilled into their heads.
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gobotrocker
Aug 24, 2007, 2:04 AM
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This was absolutely not an accident.
What your saying is "It's O.K. to not think B4 you act", we'll forgive you for anything you do, just so long as it doesnt harm ME or MY friend or MY family member. It's OK.
BULL FEATHERS
We are responsible for every action or inaction we make. Our Fore Fathers would be appauled by the lack of moral fiber.
So what, he called 911, lets give him a "Medal of Honor".
Me I'd put him in jail for a while, then make him stand at the base of a heavily used hiking trail for 16 hrs a weekend for a season, with a sign that said, "My thoughtless action killed someone", "Don't throw rocks off cliffs".
It's about maturity or the lack of.
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knieveltech
Aug 24, 2007, 2:15 AM
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gobotrocker wrote: This was absolutely not an accident. What your saying is "It's O.K. to not think B4 you act", we'll forgive you for anything you do, just so long as it doesnt harm ME or MY friend or MY family member. It's OK. BULL FEATHERS We are responsible for every action or inaction we make. Our Fore Fathers would be appauled by the lack of moral fiber. So what, he called 911, lets give him a "Medal of Honor". Me I'd put him in jail for a while, then make him stand at the base of a heavily used hiking trail for 16 hrs a weekend for a season, with a sign that said, "My thoughtless action killed someone", "Don't throw rocks off cliffs". It's about maturity or the lack of.
That's some pretty glib shit you're slinging there homeboy. *shrug* Have it your way.
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Gmburns2000
Aug 24, 2007, 2:21 AM
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knieveltech wrote: Simply put it was an accident.
No way. That's no accident. It's like saying an OUI death is an accident. It was completely avoidable. Sure, the hikers did something stupid and were remorseful, but that doesn't mean they didn't do anything stupid that had a terrible consequence. No, they didn't mean to hit someone below them, let alone kill someone, but if I get into a car drunk and ram into another person I'm not going say, "but I didn't know there'd be other drivers on the road." Completely avoidable. Remorse or not, there should be some punishment through our legal system. Maybe their conscience is honest and maybe that will lessen the sentence, but a punishment is necessary simply to keep others from doing the same thing.
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