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rocknice2


Aug 15, 2007, 6:14 PM
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Trad Texas Rope Trick
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markc wrote:

The Texas Rope Trick :

Please note that this can only be done if your height is 1/3 the length of your rope or less.

Directly anchor into the bolt with a sling so you can work safely, and clean your draw. Next, thread an open sling half-way through the hanger, so both ends are hanging even. Next, thread the tail of your rope through both ends of the open loop, stopping when it hits the ground. To avoid any confusion in the next step, you can rig your rappel device and just let it sit.

Now pull up the other end of the rope, and tie it onto the side of the sling with the bartacks. (This is just your pull strand once the rappel is done. This strand must not be threaded through your device.) You should now have three strands running to the ground. One tail is on the ground, it runs up and through both strands of the sling, down to the ground, then back up to a knot on the sling. Once you've double-checked that you're properly rigged, take up rope and weigh the device while you unclip from the bolt. Rappel down.

Now you want to pull the rope in such a way that you free the sling, rather than accidentally girth hitching it to the bolt. Gently pull the middle strand (not the tail end on the ground or the end knotted to the sling). The tail end on the ground will run up and clear the sling, which should now easily pull through the bolt. The faster you pull the rope, the more wear you're going to put on the sling. Due to this friction and the sharp radius of the hanger, the sling shouldn't be used for anything else. I'd recommend not trying this with one of the new ultra-thin slings on the market.

This is dangerous, and rigging it wrong could mess you up. If in doubt, leave the biner. You're trusting your life to a single bolt and the advice from someone from the Internet. Take it as you will, but I'm not responsible for your decisions.

Trad Texas Rope Trick:
Caution this can be very dangerous and should only be used by Diehard Dirtbags

Setup an anchor and attach to it.
Place one atomic bombproof cam independent of the anchor.
Girth hitch a trigger sling:
------------Single Stem; around the stem but above the trigger
------------Double Stem; around the trigger
Setup the "TRT" through the 'biner on the load bearing sling .[not the trigger sling!!!!]
Attach the pulling tail of the rope to the trigger sling.
Get on the "TTRT" and disassemble your anchor.
Pray
Rap down. [DO NOT RAP OFF THE TRIGGER]
Once down [one way or another] pull hard on the rope attached to the trigger sling.
The whole kit will come down, there is no need to pull rap side rope at all.

Use at own risk. May cause severe injury or death.


(This post was edited by rocknice2 on Aug 15, 2007, 6:17 PM)


neon_monk


Aug 15, 2007, 7:04 PM
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Re: [rocknice2] Trad Texas Rope Trick [In reply to]
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wow. that's... really something. Having that death rope staring you in the face the whole way down? yikes.

Does anybody really do this, or just post it on rc to scare the hell out of beginners? =)


brewer19


Aug 15, 2007, 7:18 PM
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Re: [rocknice2] Trad Texas Rope Trick [In reply to]
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that's quite inventive... and utterly horrific. i hope you burned your pants after trying that.


domu888


Aug 15, 2007, 7:54 PM
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Don't you have to retire the cam after its finished bouncing off all the rocks on the way down, expecially if you don't manage to catch it at the bottom?Pirate Seems more expensive than abandoning a hex or tri-cam ... and only slightly less expensive than just leaving the cam there.Pirate


rocknice2


Aug 15, 2007, 8:04 PM
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Re: [domu888] Trad Texas Rope Trick [In reply to]
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Let's not start another microfrature thread.

Yes I have tried this.

PS.... Not for use with Aliens


domu888


Aug 15, 2007, 8:11 PM
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Fair enough.Wink You obviously wouldn't use it on a regular basis.


Partner j_ung


Aug 16, 2007, 4:56 AM
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rocknice2 wrote:
markc wrote:

The Texas Rope Trick :

Please note that this can only be done if your height is 1/3 the length of your rope or less.

Directly anchor into the bolt with a sling so you can work safely, and clean your draw. Next, thread an open sling half-way through the hanger, so both ends are hanging even. Next, thread the tail of your rope through both ends of the open loop, stopping when it hits the ground. To avoid any confusion in the next step, you can rig your rappel device and just let it sit.

Now pull up the other end of the rope, and tie it onto the side of the sling with the bartacks. (This is just your pull strand once the rappel is done. This strand must not be threaded through your device.) You should now have three strands running to the ground. One tail is on the ground, it runs up and through both strands of the sling, down to the ground, then back up to a knot on the sling. Once you've double-checked that you're properly rigged, take up rope and weigh the device while you unclip from the bolt. Rappel down.

Now you want to pull the rope in such a way that you free the sling, rather than accidentally girth hitching it to the bolt. Gently pull the middle strand (not the tail end on the ground or the end knotted to the sling). The tail end on the ground will run up and clear the sling, which should now easily pull through the bolt. The faster you pull the rope, the more wear you're going to put on the sling. Due to this friction and the sharp radius of the hanger, the sling shouldn't be used for anything else. I'd recommend not trying this with one of the new ultra-thin slings on the market.

This is dangerous, and rigging it wrong could mess you up. If in doubt, leave the biner. You're trusting your life to a single bolt and the advice from someone from the Internet. Take it as you will, but I'm not responsible for your decisions.

Trad Texas Rope Trick:
Caution this can be very dangerous and should only be used by Diehard Dirtbags

Setup an anchor and attach to it.
Place one atomic bombproof cam independent of the anchor.
Girth hitch a trigger sling:
------------Single Stem; around the stem but above the trigger
------------Double Stem; around the trigger
Setup the "TRT" through the 'biner on the load bearing sling .[not the trigger sling!!!!]
Attach the pulling tail of the rope to the trigger sling.
Get on the "TTRT" and disassemble your anchor.
Pray
Rap down. [DO NOT RAP OFF THE TRIGGER]
Once down [one way or another] pull hard on the rope attached to the trigger sling.
The whole kit will come down, there is no need to pull rap side rope at all.

Use at own risk. May cause severe injury or death.

That's pretty fucking awesome, if not utterly terrifying. However, I can imagine a safer way to do it with two cams, by using a two-loop figure eight (or bowline on a bight) with unequal loops at the end of your pull rope. You'd pull the rope to retrieve your cams and it would remove first the tighter short one, then the looser long one. Technically, you could pull this off with as many cams as you want.

Here's a Majid-like MS paint-o-gram. You could go half the rope length, too, unlike the measley third you get from the sport TRT.




(This post was edited by j_ung on Aug 16, 2007, 5:51 AM)


rocknice2


Aug 16, 2007, 5:57 AM
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Your right about using 1/2 the rope. You just tie a knot to the load end and rap on one line.

I like your concept of using two cams


mcolombo


Aug 16, 2007, 6:05 AM
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Re: [rocknice2] Trad Texas Rope Trick [In reply to]
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It works, I have seen it done but I donít plan on trying it myself. I friend used this method to get down from an ice climb that ended at a massive roof. # 3 friend in a under the roof. It took a bit of pulling to get the cam out.


Partner mr8615


Aug 16, 2007, 6:06 AM
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Jay's got the ol thinkin cap on today. This is freakin awesome.


Partner j_ung


Aug 16, 2007, 6:07 AM
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I suppose if you have two ropes, you can rappel full rope lengths. I dunno, though. Microfractures may be bullshit, but I still don't get a kick out of watching my cams sail 60m into hungry talus. CrazyLaugh I've left stoppers before and I'd do it again without thinking twice.


(This post was edited by j_ung on Aug 16, 2007, 6:09 AM)


Partner j_ung


Aug 16, 2007, 6:14 AM
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Disclaimer: I've never used this trick, hence all my "coulds" and "woulds." Seems like it would work best in a roof crack or a vertical crack. Maybe I'll give it a try in a few different crack types and see how it goes.


pug


Aug 16, 2007, 2:00 PM
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Here's an enhancement to protect your cams from damage:



The downside is that you have to carry a helium tank with you on lead to inflate the balloons. Note that the number of balloons shown in the image is not representative of the number required to offset the weight of your cams and rope. This will require experimentation and will depend on the cams, rope, and balloon size.

Sly


summerprophet


Aug 16, 2007, 2:09 PM
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Wow, this is perhaps the most useful pierce of information learned from RC.com. Who says an old dog can't learn new tricks.

The only issue I can forsee creating problems is with the two cam method. Ensure that the rap sling remains longer than the length of rope connecting the two cam triggers, otherwise, you will pull the first cam and the rope will be too short to pull directly on the second cam trigger, before it pulls on the rap sling connecting the cams.

This is difficult to explain, but sketch it out and it makes sense. This is one of the few situations where I would find a non-limited self equalizing anchor very useful. (Thus allowing for maximum anchor lenghening once the first piece pulls).

Liek a bunch of you, I think I may play with this during the weekend.


fitzontherocks


Aug 16, 2007, 2:23 PM
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I used the TRT on a single bolt (actually my partner did, and I was on belay) earlier this summer. he was just about 40' off the deck and neither of us could finish the route, nor wanted to leave a bail biner. It worked great. Still don't quite get the cam trick, and am not sure I want to.


Partner epoch
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Aug 16, 2007, 4:02 PM
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Jay, you're a friggin genius.


rocknice2


Aug 16, 2007, 4:44 PM
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A problem with using two ropes might be that a full rope might just weigh enough to pull the cam out on it's own. Even an 8.2

Now you could always tape [or use elastic] to temporarily secure the trigger rope to the rap rope near the top with a healthy bit of slack so as not to load the trigger.

Just a thought.


stymingersfink


Aug 16, 2007, 5:27 PM
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rocknice2 wrote:
A problem with using two ropes might be that a full rope might just weigh enough to pull the cam out on it's own. Even an 8.2

Now you could always tape [or use elastic] to temporarily secure the trigger rope to the rap rope near the top with a healthy bit of slack so as not to load the trigger.

Just a thought.
seems to me there might be an easier solution to the problem. hell, maybe even two.

1: aid or french-free through the climb to an established belay station... Rap off.

or...

2: set a couple of nuts, equalize the pieces... rap off.

sometimes sacrificing gear in the pursuit of bailing safely is just a cost of doing business. If you don't value your life to the tune of $10 (couple of nuts and a bail sling), IDK... perhaps climbing isn't your thing.

Besides, you can always come back next weekend and reclaim your abandoned gear. If it's still there, that isSmile


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Aug 27, 2007, 9:44 AM
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j_ung wrote:
I can imagine a safer way to do it with two cams, by using a two-loop figure eight (or bowline on a bight) with unequal loops at the end of your pull rope. You'd pull the rope to retrieve your cams and it would remove first the tighter short one, then the looser long one. Technically, you could pull this off with as many cams as you want.

Here's a Majid-like MS paint-o-gram. You could go half the rope length, too, unlike the measley third you get from the sport TRT.


I set this up and tried it yesterday in a horizontal at about head height. Worked like a charm.

Some observations:

1. Deep cam placements were harder to clean than less deep. I'll leave it to individuals to find their own balance between safety and ease of retrieval.
2. Placements that were closer to the overcammed end of the spectrum were also more difficult to clean. I found a placement somewhere in the middle (leaning ever-so slightly toward undercammed) to work best.
3. I sometimes needed a good stiff yank to clean one or both cams, which leads me to believe that the more rope you have in the system, the more difficult they might be to clean (due to rope stretch).
4. Constricting placements were significantly more difficult to clean. Parallel-sided cracks worked best, but slight irregularities were also doable.
5. Somebody above mentioned that the weight of the rope hanging on the triggers might cause the whole shabang to fail. This may be different in vertical or bomb-bay cracks, however, in every trial, I had to pull harder than the weight of a rope to free the cams. Also, I don't think it's possible to clean the cams with a person's full body-weight on the rap line. Still, avoid throwing the retrieval end of the rope before rappelling.

Use your own judgment about your cams' landings.


(This post was edited by j_ung on Aug 27, 2007, 9:49 AM)


jeremy11


Sep 4, 2007, 10:44 PM
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maybe with a second rope you could bail on belay, where you rap on the second rope and the belayer pulls in slack on the lead rope so if the rap anchor pulls you only have a normal lead fall. then you could clean your cam from the bottom!

Not that I ever want to try it...


skinner


Sep 5, 2007, 1:42 AM
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Re: [rocknice2] Trad Texas Rope Trick [In reply to]
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rocknice2 wrote:
A problem with using two ropes might be that a full rope might just weigh enough to pull the cam out on it's own. Even an 8.2

Instead of a *rope* to pull the cams, why not use a 7mm tag line to reduce the weight issue?

I think the 1st Edition of Freedom of the Hills had an early (non-cam) version of rope retrieval, using a cut sheep shank, which was even more of a sure-fire way to die. The idea being that, as soon as the rope was unweighted the knot would fall apart.
No pulling necessary. Crazy





I guess they hadn't figured out double ropes yet Wink


PS: BTW.. awesome paint-o-gram j_ung !
I think it'll put you in the running for this years Majid-Etch-a-Sketch Award



(This post was edited by skinner on Sep 5, 2007, 1:51 AM)


TicTac


Sep 9, 2007, 2:30 PM
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Hey Majid, what are your feelings about this setup?


Partner j_ung


Sep 10, 2007, 6:56 AM
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If I remember correctly, I first heard of this trick (with a single cam) from Majid.


camhead


Sep 10, 2007, 7:19 AM
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interesting, and informative. the alternative to this trick would be to SACK UP AND FINISH THE CLIMB, YOU BIG SCROTUM!


Partner j_ung


Sep 10, 2007, 8:00 AM
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PS: your favorite shirt is ghey. Tongue

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