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hannah6384
Aug 16, 2007, 9:50 PM
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Hi everyone. I apologize if this question is too basic for this forum. I'm by no means a hardcore climbing photographer - in fact, I don't think I've ever taken a picture of anyone climbing. That being said, I'm looking into buying a new digital camera and an upcoming climbing trip is a main motivation. Essentially, I want something that is relatively inexpensive (<$300) and compact and takes decent pictures. I'm obviously not expecting to get something fantastic given how little I'm willing to spend.
By reading this forum and looking at reviews in various other places, I've narrowed it down to:
Panasonic Lumix DMC-12
and
Canon Powershot SD1000
They seem pretty comparable to me. One concern is that the Panasonic doesn't have an optical viewfinder, which seems strange to me and I've seen mentioned as a drawback on another thread. Other than that, does anyone here have either of these and know of any other quirks (especially any relevant to climbing)?
Also, if you think both of these cameras suck, please feel free to push your favorites on me as well!
Thanks in advance for any advice.
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summerprophet
Aug 16, 2007, 11:16 PM
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First of all, everyone has a bias, this is especially true amongst photographers. I am preferanced towards Canon.
That being said, for a quicky camera, these are pretty similar. Both 3x zooms, both 35 to 105mm equivalent. The Panasonic has stabilization which is very VERY useful for a climbing camera.
I looked at the 800is and the 700is (again I am a canon user) and they offer a better range (28-105 or 35-140) and stabilization, but the costs are quite a bit more than the 1000.
If these are your options, I would grab the panasonic, but both a decent camera's. If you have a little time to research and flexible with your budget, I would look for something that goes as wide as 28mm, has a optical viewfinder (better battery life with VF off all the time) and has some form of IS.
With all that, remember that it is the photographer, not the camera that takes the photos, a $200 camera and a few photography books from the library will often achieve better results that thousands of dollars worth of camera gear and no knowledge of how to use it.
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extreme_actuary
Aug 16, 2007, 11:41 PM
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Don't mean to make the choice more difficult, but the Fuji F31 is awesome, especially for low light. I couldn't be happier with mine. It doesn't look as trendy or sleek as the others, but it performs. Also, it has great battery life. Another one might be that Olympus Stylus 770, it is waterproof (10M) and shock proof. One less thing you have to worry about.
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larryd
Aug 16, 2007, 11:51 PM
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Another angle to consider: Climbing cameras take a beating. I've had a couple of Olympus units, a Canon, a Fuji, and a Nikon all cash it in. Dust was probably the main culprit. Currently I'm shooting with a Samsung s630 (on sale at Fry's for $88!). It is doing well and takes excellent pictures.
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brianri
Aug 17, 2007, 12:30 AM
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Check out the Canon A550. High quality photos and inexpensive. http://www.kenrockwell.com/canon/compacts/a550.htm
Brian
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climbordie7
Aug 17, 2007, 12:41 AM
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i totally love my samsung camera. it has seven megapixels. pretty much anything from samsung is awesome. i have taken mine on several trips and it is doing an awesome job. chalk doesn't cloud the lens, i does ggod with low light, and the pictures are so sharp. they probably don't sell mine anymore but they have some newer and better models available. i bought mine on black thursday right after thanksgiving for 200, i would have been 320 on any other day. if you can wait that long they do some awesome sales.
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Myxomatosis
Aug 17, 2007, 2:41 AM
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I'm also a Canon user, so my views are also one sided 
Any of the Canon range with the IS, Image Stabilizier, (eg the 800is/700is/S5IS) are great little camera's altho they are little more expensive than the other base models, they are definitly worth the extra money. But like the guys said, they are breakable (just make sure you have home and contents insurance to make a claim  ). The image stablilizer is to cut down on blurry fast moving shots and also hand shake. My S3IS has never taken a blurry shot and I do alot of motorsport shooting :)
I dont think there is alot of difference between the lower end main manufactor cameras. Just try and find the best deal and go from there (eg extra memory cards, extra warranty and a bag all come in handy)
(This post was edited by Myxomatosis on Aug 18, 2007, 2:25 AM)
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hannah6384
Aug 17, 2007, 2:55 PM
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Wow - Thanks a lot, everyone, for all the helpful replies! Looks like I have a bit more research to do before buying anything. The money restriction comes from the fact that I just blew my monthly budget on a bunch of new quickdraws...but I'm going to Devil's Tower for the first time at the end of the month and I'd really like to have a camera there. Maybe if I just eat Raman for the rest of the month....
On another note - any recommendations for good books for beginning photographers?
Thanks again!
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phlyfisher
Aug 17, 2007, 3:46 PM
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I just picked up an Olympus Stylus 770 sw. It is probably the best thing I've seen as far as a point and shoot for the outdoor enthusiast. The thing is waterproof, crushproof, and freezeproof. Basically you can beat the crap out of it and it will still work. For me water and getting banged around it the killer of previous cameras. Dust is too, but this camera you just put in a bowl of water, open the lens cover a couple of times, and dry it off. It right around 300. Maybe 10 or 20 above, but worth it knowing you aren't going to break it very easily.
Hope that helps
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trenchdigger
Aug 17, 2007, 4:20 PM
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As you can see there are a lot of good cameras out there. All of them have strengths and weaknesses - some moreso than others.
With the information you've provided, it would be hard to try to figure out which strengths in a camera will suit you best. For example... is small size a priority? How large will is the largest you'll want to print (how many megapixels do you need)? Do you need manual controls? What zoom range do you need? Will you be frequently shooting in low light (is IS necessary or maybe a low-noise sensor)?
I highly recommend checking out the cameras you mentioned, and the ones others have suggested on http://www.dpreview.com. They have full reviews of most cameras (or at least similar model series cameras) for just about every brand out there. Their reviews are thorough and detailed and give you more information than you'll ever need to know to make a decision on a camera.
Good luck with your search.
Adam
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melekzek
Aug 18, 2007, 1:40 PM
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Myxomatosis wrote: The image stablilizer is to cut down on blurry fast moving shots and also hand shake.
nope, handshake only.
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maldaly
Aug 18, 2007, 4:04 PM
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Most points are pretty well covered here except lens choice. All I can say is GO WIDE. The more i shoot telephoto, the more I like my wide angle lenses. The Canon 850 goes to 28mm and I think that's as good as you're going to get in a PHD digicam. I had a Kodak Easy Share 705 and it went down to 23mm which I loved. The thing was tiny, shot 7MP and had a nice built in panorama stitch-together feature. Unfortunately the door to the SD card was really, really cheap and if I hadn't lost the camera after shooting a single day I'm sure that door would be held on with duct tape.
If I was going to replace it today I'd look at that canon 850. It's getting great reviews, Canon has always done a good job with the operations of their PHDs and their picture quality is superb. That said, the above mentioned Olympus can be had at Costco for $300. I've had an Olympus Stylus 300 for 4 years now and it's been great.
Mal
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Myxomatosis
Aug 19, 2007, 12:01 AM
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melekzek wrote: Myxomatosis wrote: The image stablilizer is to cut down on blurry fast moving shots and also hand shake. nope, handshake only.
Sorry you are correct. My camera has Digic2 which helps with its processing speed :)
http://www.canon.com.au/technology/default.aspx
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melekzek
Aug 19, 2007, 12:44 AM
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Myxomatosis wrote: My camera has Digic2 which helps with its processing speed :) http://www.canon.com.au/technology/default.aspx
DIGIC2 does not help with motion blur either, since it does not speedup the shutter speed, but only FPS.
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Myxomatosis
Aug 19, 2007, 3:51 AM
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melekzek wrote: Myxomatosis wrote: My camera has Digic2 which helps with its processing speed :) http://www.canon.com.au/technology/default.aspx DIGIC2 does not help with motion blur either, since it does not speedup the shutter speed, but only FPS.
I'm not trying to say it does. 
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Brett1234
Aug 20, 2007, 3:45 AM
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I owned a Panasonic Lumix- do not buy one. The 28mm and WXGA are great, but the Achilies heel of the camera is its tiny CCD. Photos are noisy. Additionally, you would think the Leica lens would be great, and in terms of optical quality it is; but it is way too slow for the camera. As a result, shutter speeds are frequently too slow to catch the shot when hand-held.
The image stabilizer is a good idea, but it only works in bright daylight; in dim light when you need it most it can not get a lock, and so disables itself temporarily.
Like other posters have noted, go wide; 28mm is great for setting the scene. I finally settled on the Ricoh Caplio R6, 28mm with a 7 power zoom. Fast lens, low noise, decent pic quality.
But if you have the money and weight budget, get a DSLR; so much better.
PS, best overall point and shoot in non-28mm is the Casio Elixim series, full manual control, 4 color histogram, two button manual white balance, etc..
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hannah6384
Aug 20, 2007, 8:43 PM
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Again, many thanks to everyone for all the great suggestions. That dpreview website is fantastic! In the end, the combination of compact size (I know from experience that I won't carry a big camera), good reviews both here and elsewhere, and good price (I even was able to find a great discount) convinced me to buy the Canon SD800is. Hopefully I'll soon have some pictures that I won't be ashamed to post!
Thanks again.
Hannah
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trenchdigger
Aug 20, 2007, 9:30 PM
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Brett1234 wrote: I owned a Panasonic Lumix- do not buy one.
Which model? I own the FZ-3 and the LX-1 and have been very pleased with the results.
Brett1234 wrote: The 28mm and WXGA are great, but the Achilies heel of the camera is its tiny CCD. Photos are noisy.
Brett1234 wrote: Additionally, you would think the Leica lens would be great, and in terms of optical quality it is; but it is way too slow for the camera. As a result, shutter speeds are frequently too slow to catch the shot when hand-held.
Too slow of a lens? The FZ-3 is capable of f/2.8 throughout the zoom range (35mm-420mm equivalent). The LX-1 isn't as impressive, but still achieves f/2.8 at the wide end which is equivalent to most other P&S cameras.
Brett1234 wrote: The image stabilizer is a good idea, but it only works in bright daylight; in dim light when you need it most it can not get a lock, and so disables itself temporarily.
What I love most about the Panasonics are their speed, sharpness, and manual controls. They have lower lag times than any P&S digi cams I've used, the lenses are sharp as a tack, and the manual controls let me eek out more quality than I ever could with a standard P&S.
Brett1234 wrote: Like other posters have noted, go wide; 28mm is great for setting the scene. I finally settled on the Ricoh Caplio R6, 28mm with a 7 power zoom. Fast lens, low noise, decent pic quality. But if you have the money and weight budget, get a DSLR; so much better. PS, best overall point and shoot in non-28mm is the Casio Elixim series, full manual control, 4 color histogram, two button manual white balance, etc..
I have been impressed with the reviews and specs of the Ricoh cameras, but haven't had the opportunity to use one.
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