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Sloppy bolts on a trad climb.
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joeforte


Sep 1, 2007, 4:19 PM
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Sloppy bolts on a trad climb.  (North_America: United_States: Pennsylvania: Northeastern_Region: Delaware_Water_Gap__Mt__Minsi_)
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I was at the DWG last weekend, and noticed a line of bolts going up a 5.4ish arete near "Crackpot, 5.4" Curious about the climb, we climbed it (I lead it in my sandals), and noticed that the bolts and hangers are of the hardware store variety. Bad news on a beginer climb!

On top of this, my partner notices that they put the washers UNDER the hangers. As in, between the hanger and the rock. This significantly weakens the placement, because the washer acts as a fulcrum to lever the bolt out.

Whoever is doing this, PLEASE STOP BEFORE YOU INJURE OR KILL SOMEONE!

If anyone has any info on this, please post up, or PM me. If you know the guy, kick his ass.


Partner angry


Sep 1, 2007, 5:11 PM
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Re: [joeforte] Sloppy bolts on a trad climb. [In reply to]
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I can't support the hardware store hangers, those are shit. Even the good welded shuts are stupid, I mean real bolt hangers cost $1.50.

However, there's a great reason to put the hanger between the rock and the hanger. If you are using standard expansion bolts with the nut on top (ie hilti, redhead, fastenal) often the sleeve is narrower than the hole in the hanger. When tightening it down in this case, you will suck the sleeve out of the hole until the sleeve contacts the nut.

If you put the washer close to the rock, you won't have that issue.

Fulcrum? Not really a problem with a 1/16" washer. Crystals and bumps and slightly crooked holes cause more leverage.


Partner angry


Sep 1, 2007, 5:17 PM
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Re: [angry] Sloppy bolts on a trad climb. [In reply to]
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Also, I have a box of "hardware store variety" bolts that I bought online. I did some research and they're rated to 5800lb pull out and 5700lb shear. I use them for anchors so there's 2 of them.

I'd have an issue if someone went out all willy nilly and bought shit bolts, but just because they are the type you see in a hardware store doesn't make them dangerous (in fairness, it doesn't make them safe either. I'm personally glad climbing isn't sanitized and regulated to the point of an amusement park ride. That's a different topic though).


jaybro


Sep 1, 2007, 5:43 PM
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Re: [joeforte] Sloppy bolts on a trad climb. [In reply to]
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What are hardware store style hangers?
a photo?


Partner angry


Sep 1, 2007, 5:47 PM
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Re: [jaybro] Sloppy bolts on a trad climb. [In reply to]
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jaybro wrote:
What are hardware store style hangers?
a photo?

Probably cold shuts, welded shuts, gold shuts, etc. Aint bad if done right but silly with the rather low price of pagan or madrock hangers.


climbingtrash


Sep 1, 2007, 7:25 PM
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Re: [angry] Sloppy bolts on a trad climb. [In reply to]
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angry wrote:
I can't support the hardware store hangers, those are shit. Even the good welded shuts are stupid, I mean real bolt hangers cost $1.50.

However, there's a great reason to put the hanger between the rock and the hanger. If you are using standard expansion bolts with the nut on top (ie hilti, redhead, fastenal) often the sleeve is narrower than the hole in the hanger. When tightening it down in this case, you will suck the sleeve out of the hole until the sleeve contacts the nut.

If you put the washer close to the rock, you won't have that issue.

Fulcrum? Not really a problem with a 1/16" washer. Crystals and bumps and slightly crooked holes cause more leverage.

Never had that problem before but wouldn't the washer, between the hanger and nut, still do the same thing? (stop the sleeve from hitting the nut)

Agree, the fulcrum issue seems pretty reachy.


joeforte


Sep 2, 2007, 9:49 AM
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Re: [climbingtrash] Sloppy bolts on a trad climb. [In reply to]
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The hangers are PLATED STEEL. Who is too cheap for $1.50 stainless hangers these days?

The bolts are also plated steel stud type. There is no sleeve. They all spin fairly easily due to the washer being under the hanger. Any engineer or contractor will tell you this is a bad idea. The whole point of the washer is to isolate the movement of the hanger from the nut, so if the hanger were to move, it does not gradually loosen the nut.

And yes, a 16th of an inch is plenty to lower shear strength. This person is clearly incompetant. I'll try to get some pics of them next time I'm up there.

But worse of all, this is a 5.4 TRAD CLIMB.


rock_doctor


Oct 10, 2007, 12:40 PM
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Re: [joeforte] Sloppy bolts on a trad climb. [In reply to]
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I appreciate the discussion about types of bolts for what it is worth....but I think you're missing the point. Who the f is bolting a route at the gap. There are plenty of sport areas around, go bolt there. Furthermore....if you're taking the trouble to bolt something, why would you bolt a 5.4 route. That really sucks.

The gap is an awesome place, that doesn't get nearly the traffic or respect that it deserves. Its a cool trad area. there's no reason to trash it with bolts. I like sport, too, but not at a trad area and not on a 5.4. Grow a pair!


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